Tuning w/RTACS

[TFZ_Z06]

First, I do not have a book, didn't know one existed until I saw a post on this site. Where can I get the book or is there a download?
I'm interested in using the RTACS. Probably don't need a book if you guys can pitch in a few anwers.

Apparently "cal_link.txt" is a source definition file when using RTACS. While my scanner and tuning tools were active, I saw a blue line in the table where active, so I'm guessing I'm almost there.

[LS1] Example:
;Main VE Table
B0101.ROW=SAE.RPM
B0101.COL=SAE.MAP
B0101.RRR=CALC.BEN1,CALC.BEN2,CALC.BEN_AUT1,...


Its easy to see where the .ROW/.COL come from, but what does .RRR stand
for? RoadRunner Resulting Value??? I guessing I can create my own RRR adjustment factor by writing CALC PIDS.

Also, do the commas mean, use the first available parameter?
CALC.BEN1,CALC.BEN2,CALC.BEN_AUT1,

I've seen dx() and lookup() posted. What else is available? Could someone post if they have time? What is the syntax?

Regarding below graphic:
I'm guessing I can manually adjust #1 by entering data. What is 2???????????

How do I activate RTACS? It always says inactive and there is never data in 1 or 2 though I noted data shows up in ROW/COL edit boxes.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/efiimg.jpg

[mr.prick]

did you see this?
http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=33

[TFZ_Z06]

did you see this?
http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=33

I'm using the same units in both scanner and tuning tool.

[mr.prick]

are you recording?
did you hit the emulate button?
did you select the fine/coarse adjust button?
all three of these must be done to start RTACS after you are connected to the RR.
have you not connected before or,
is this just a certain table you are adjusting that is not linked?
what table are you trying to update?

[TFZ_Z06]

are you recording?
did you hit the emulate button?
did you select the fine/coarse adjust button?
all three of these must be done to start RTACS after you are connected to the RR.
have you not connected before or,
is this just a certain table you are adjusting that is not linked?
what table are you trying to update?

BBL and Pass Thru are working. Accuracy is set to 1% and I have not changed it. I DO NOT want it updating the RR right now, only the opened tune file.

Am I wrong or does:
Non_Emulate Mode - > Write to currently opened tune file only.
Emulate Mode-> Writes Only to Tune File AND RR.

No, I have not connected before. I've only had the RR in about 2 weeks or less. Also, I did turn on the red emulate button and nothing happened.
:help2:

What are fields 1 and 2 for??????????????????????? Do you know where I can find the functions, such as dx(), lookup() and the syntax for using them?

I'll go out and play with it again. The #*$*#**#$% USB cable is so short it barely reached my laptop. :cussing:

Also, was playing w/VE table for practice only, therefore MAP/RPM were selected.

Again, RRR is for????????????????


Thanks for help so far....

[TFZ_Z06]

BTW, what I plan to do is generate calc pids using the O2 sensors to adjust the PE vs RPM to my needs. I used to do this by datalogging live, stop then change and test. Seems RR would be a possibly automated method to do this. Second, I want to create another pid based on independent var KR to help me get the max spark for my low and high octane tables at part and wot.

[mr.prick]

as far as KR you can just have the RR subtract it as you go,
you might want to set the update frequency high as to
not take out too much at once.

like i said, to update you must be connected,
recording, emulation on, fine/coarse selected
and i suggest a WBO2, if you don`t have one.
you won`t need to make a calc pid if you use a popular brand as
everything is all set up for must brands.
hope this helps

[405HP_Z06]

BBL and Pass Thru are working. Accuracy is set to 1% and I have not changed it. I DO NOT want it updating the RR right now, only the opened tune file.

Am I wrong or does:
Non_Emulate Mode - > Write to currently opened tune file only.
Emulate Mode-> Writes Only to Tune File AND RR.

The RR has two modes of operation:
1. Emulation mode: Update Roadrunner PCM as changes are made in real-time. The button indicated by (1) toggles it into [Emulation] mode. When this mode is active, [Emulation] is displayed next to the RR firmware version number and the words -Realtime- are displayed on both sides of the word 'RoadRunner'. This is what the RR control panel looks like when in emulation mode:

http://www.andersonperformance.net/rr1.jpg

2. Flash mode: Execute PCM from Flash memory. When the [Flash] mode button is toggled, the RoadRunner goes into [Flash] mode. The word [Flash] appears next to the RoadRunner firmware version and all this text turns red. In this mode, the PCM operates from the embedded flash exactly as though it were a 'standard' PCM. You can read the flash or reprogram the flash using your standard EFILive FlashScan tools.

http://www.andersonperformance.net/rr2.jpg


No, I have not connected before. I've only had the RR in about 2 weeks or less. Also, I did turn on the red emulate button and nothing happened.:help2:

For [Emulation] mode to work, you must 'connect'. Nothing will happen when your in emulation mode except that the RR control panel will display as shown above. At this point, if you make a change to a table the RR will execute the change in realtime.


What are fields 1 and 2 for???????????????????????
(1) is the feedback PID calculated value and (2) is the feedback PID used for the RTACS process. (2) is defined in the cal_link.txt file, see below for more information.

http://www.andersonperformance.net/rr5.jpg

The PID/Table relationship is defined in the cal_link.txt file located: C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Configuration
An example of a RoadRunner linked PID to {B0101} is:

;Main VE Table
B0101.ROW=SAE.RPM
B0101.COL=SAE.MAP
B0101.RRR=CALC.BEN1,CALC.BEN2,CALC.BEN_AUT1,CALC.B EN_AUT2,CALC.BEN_FJO1,CALC.BEN_FJO2,CALC.BEN_LC11, CALC.BENLC12,CALC.BEN_LM11,CALC.BEN_LM12,CALC.BEN_ PLX1,CALC.BEN_PLX2,CALC.BEN_TE1,CALC.BEN_TE2,CALC. BEN_WBC1,CALC.BEN_WBC2
[{Reference_Number}.RRR= xxxx.xxxx] is the list of feedback PIDS that link to this table.


For RTACS to activate, you must meet the following conditions:
1. RoadRunner PCM must be connected to the tune tool software.
2. The real time update tool bar button must be selected.
3. The scan tool software must be logging data.

Then you must select either the RTACS fine or course adjustment buttons on the tool bar. In the image, (1) is the fine adjustment, (2) is the course adjustment, and (3) is the cell edit mask feature.
(From page 89 of the EFILive v7.5 tune manual)

http://www.andersonperformance.net/rr4.jpg


You can adjust the step size of the fine and course adjustments in the Tune tool properties. From the tool bar - Edit >> Properties >> RoadRunner:

http://www.andersonperformance.net/rr3.jpg

The 'Update Frequency' parameter in the above image controls the number of cell hits required for RTACS to consider a cell 'valid' for modification.



Do you know where I can find the functions, such as dx(), lookup() and the syntax for using them?
Parameter Identifier (PID) information starts on page 89 of the EFILive Scan manual. Functions available are specifically on pages 93-94.


I'll go out and play with it again. The #*$*#**#$% USB cable is so short it barely reached my laptop.
Use a USB extension cable or purchase the Bluetooth option.



Again, RRR is for????????????????
Thanks for help so far....
I don't know what 'RRR' means. Probably just a specific variable for RoadRunner operations.

Did you configure EFILive according to the RoadRunner quickstart guide?

[TFZ_Z06]

Did you configure EFILive according to the RoadRunner quickstart guide?

Yes. The car runs fine w/RR and I even tested the EMU mode by changing the spark table the night I put it in. I noticed a change in power, then read the RR flash when I got home also indicating my changes.

I just went out and tried to use it again:

1. The row/col data will not update in RTACS unless its in RECORD mode on scanner, that is the red scanner button.

2. RTACS still = Inactive. I need more explanation regarding what causes a change to be made to the file or RR flash. I'm guessing I need to program in a response for whatever RRR is. I assumme this is a return multiplier value for RR's update. If true, I need to see what is avail in terms of functions ( ie, dx, ix, whatever else add, substract,...)

If I want to build a calc pid, how do I access the table data for example in spark? Instead of using SAE.SPARKADV, I would prefer pull the exact spark
value in the table and subtract 1 degree.

Thanks. :confused:

[405HP_Z06]

Yes. The car runs fine w/RR and I even tested the EMU mode by changing the spark table the night I put it in. I noticed a change in power, then read the RR flash when I got home also indicating my changes.

I just went out and tried to use it again:

1. The row/col data will not update in RTACS unless its in RECORD mode on scanner, that is the red scanner button.

Yes, sir. According to the manual the scan tool must be recording.


2. RTACS still = Inactive. I need more explanation regarding what causes a change to be made to the file or RR flash. I'm guessing I need to program in a response for whatever RRR is. I assumme this is a return multiplier value for RR's update. If true, I need to see what is avail in terms of functions ( ie, dx, ix, whatever else add, substract,...)

What wideband are you using? What PID is displayed in 'Box 2' above?


If I want to build a calc pid, how do I access the table data for example in spark? Instead of using SAE.SPARKADV, I would prefer pull the exact spark
value in the table and subtract 1 degree.

Thanks. :confused:

Looking at the available functions, the only one I can see that would work is the lookup() function. However, I don't know how to use this function with a 3D table like the spark table.

[mr.prick]

EFILive beta V7.5.4 (Build 44) and beyond:
RTACS now supports Addition, subtraction, multiplication
and division as well as the
current BEN factor percentage adjustment.
Just add the operator (+, -, * or /) you wish
to use followed by a comma before the first PID name in
the *.RRR key like this: Bxxxx.RRR=+,<pidname> Leave it blank to use the standard BEN factor %.

[TFZ_Z06]

just as a test, I created a dummy calc value that adds 4 to the cell value using +, calcpid to make sure RRR was avail if that was what it wants.

Unfortunately, RTACS still indicates INACTIVE. Now what...
Keep the ideas coming, I must be close..

Where is the creator of this system? I need answers otherwise this RR is about as useful as a 280/290 solid cam right now.

[405HP_Z06]

just as a test, I created a dummy calc value that adds 4 to the cell value using +, calcpid to make sure RRR was avail if that was what it wants.

Unfortunately, RTACS still indicates INACTIVE. Now what...
Keep the ideas coming, I must be close..

Where is the creator of this system? I need answers otherwise this RR is about as useful as a 280/290 solid cam right now.

What wideband are you using? What PID is displayed in 'Box 2' above?

[mr.prick]

if you still can get RTACS active after all the posts here so far
i don`t know what else to say.
can you post a screen shot while you try to connect?

also what version of firmware is your RR running?
http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=22
why is the RR firmware not posted here?
MOATES!

[TFZ_Z06]

if you still can get RTACS active after all the posts here so far
i don`t know what else to say.
can you post a screen shot while you try to connect?

also what version of firmware is your RR running?
http://www.moates.net/documentation.php?documentation_id=22
why is the RR firmware not posted here?
MOATES!

RR Firmware? I'll check that!!!!!!!!!!! see my sig for other version numbers. come back and check the post, after checking out RR, I'm going to do a screen shot play by play and post .

[TFZ_Z06]

Updates at Moates.net:
Roadrunner is N/A, so I'm guessing we are all using the same RR firmware and its up to date.

[mr.prick]

you will need to use the utility on that page to find out which version you have.
and why the latest version is not there is beyond me, it should be!
i doubt the firmware version is you problem,
i`m just curious that there might be a conflict with the version/firmware of your V2.

[TFZ_Z06]

you will need to use the utility on that page to find out which version you have.
and why the latest version is not there is beyond me, it should be!
i doubt the firmware version is you problem,
i`m just curious that there might be a conflict with the version/firmware of your V2.

Few Screen shots. KRADJ is a dummy calc pid I added to apply to VE table as a test. Its setup as +,pid. At 0 rpm, it returns 4.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/g1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/g2.jpg

and to further clarify "cal_link.txt":
[LS1]
;Main VE Table
B0101.ROW=SAE.RPM
B0101.COL=SAE.MAP
B0101.RRR=+,CALC.KRADJ,CALC.BEN1,CALC.BEN2,CALC.BE N_AUT1,CALC.BEN_AUT2,CALC.BEN_FJO1,CALC.BEN_FJO2,C ALC.BEN_LC11,CALC.BENLC12,CALC.BEN_LM11,CALC.BEN_L M12,CALC.BEN_PLX1,CALC.BEN_PLX2,CALC.BEN_TE1,CALC. BEN_TE2,CALC.BEN_WBC1,CALC.BEN_WBC2

and now the two mystery boxes are being filled with data. Oh the joy...
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/g3.jpg

[mr.prick]

you`ve got the latest firmware.
and now i see whats up,
you are connected but you aren`t getting updates probably because
the conditions are not being met to update.
you should remove that calc.pid you added to that table in the link.txt
and use a WBO2 for that table.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=6318
look here for changing {B0101} without WBO2 but,
be warned that it wont update in the high RPM/kPa areas
with the STFT fixer tuning.
i tried it once and all was good until i went WOT.

[TFZ_Z06]

you`ve got the latest firmware.
and now i see whats up,
you are connected but you aren`t getting updates probably because
the conditions are not being met to update.
you should remove that calc.pid you added to that table in the link.txt
and use a WBO2 for that table.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=6318
look here for changing {B0101} without WBO2 but,
be warned that it wont update in the high RPM/kPa areas
with the STFT fixer tuning.
i tried it once and all was good until i went WOT.

That calc PID was for testing the RTACS only, but it will get converted, copied 3 times and used with stock o2 sensors, fuel trims, and KR for tuning.

How do I read the conditions of Accuracy? When does RTACS change data at what condition?

If the row/col in the VE was 73%, accuracy set to 1% and the calc pid returning 4, what happens?

[TFZ_Z06]

appreciate the help btw

[5.7ute]

You have been using the tabs I have circled below havent you?

[mr.prick]

When does RTACS change data at what condition?



the condition of the pid must be met,
if your pid of choice selected is KR
and you want to subtract KR then
there must be KR present for it to be subtracted.
i didn`t get what else you said.

[TFZ_Z06]

You have been using the tabs I have circled below havent you?

No, but as soon as I clicked the coarse tab, it went active :cucumber: increasing the cell value to 99%.

Thank you.

[TFZ_Z06]

the condition of the pid must be met,
if your pid of choice selected is KR
and you want to subtract KR then
there must be KR present for it to be subtracted.
i didn`t get what else you said.

I need to test the O2 sensor feedback and PE vs RPM and see what happens.
I have a voltage I shoot for when tuning. If this works, tuning can get a lot easier. I have a bunch of techniques I have applied in the past that work, now if I can only automate them w/this technology.

I need to setup a CALC PID that should look something like:
(target_mv/02B1S1)+1. Will require >= 5200RPM and TPS=100%.
Gotta figure out how to include those filters and carefully choose coarse/fine adjustments.

THANKS FOR YOUR PREVIOUS HELP.

[405HP_Z06]

I need to test the O2 sensor feedback and PE vs RPM and see what happens.
I have a voltage I shoot for when tuning. If this works, tuning can get a lot easier. I have a bunch of techniques I have applied in the past that work, now if I can only automate them w/this technology.

I need to setup a CALC PID that should look something like:
(target_mv/02B1S1)+1. Will require >= 5200RPM and TPS=100%.
Gotta figure out how to include those filters and carefully choose coarse/fine adjustments.

THANKS FOR YOUR PREVIOUS HELP.

You would set up a CALC PID to calculate the O2 sensor variance and then use an RTACS filter to exclude the frames <= 5199 RPM and TPS <100.

The PIDs would look something like below. This averages the output of both O2 banks:



#================================================= =============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
*CLC-01-900
mV 800.0 950.0 0.0 "({GM.HO2S11} + {GM.HO2S21})/2"

*CLC-01-901
factor 0.0 10.0 0.0 "({CALC.O2mV_AVG} / target_mv)


# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.O2mV_AVG F61C CLC-01-900 mV Fuel "NB O2 average millivolts"
CALC.O2_PEMULT F61C CLC-01-901 factor Fuel "NB O2 PE Factor"Add the 'target_mv' value with your specific value.

I also added some additional images/clarification to post #8 in the event someone else has the same issues.

Glad you got everything working! :thumb_yello:

[TFZ_Z06]

You would set up a CALC PID to calculate the O2 sensor variance and then use an RTACS filter to exclude the frames >= 5200 and TPS <100.

The PIDs would look something like below. This averages the output of both O2 banks:



#================================================= =============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
*CLC-01-900
mV 800.0 950.0 0.0 "({GM.HO2S11} + {GM.HO2S21})/2"

*CLC-01-901
factor 0.0 10.0 0.0 "(target_mv / {CALC.O2mV_AVG}) / 100 + 1



# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.O2mV_AVG F61C CLC-01-900 mV Fuel "NB O2 average millivolts"
CALC.O2_Variance F61C CLC-01-901 factor Fuel "NB O2 mV Variance Percent"

Add the 'target_mv' value with your specific value.

I also added some additional images/clarification to post #8 in the event someone else has the same issues.

Glad you got everything working! :thumb_yello:

Excellent work on post 8. I'm sure somebody new to RR will find that useful along w/the other posts.

You read my mind. One minor problem is my o2 sensors run about 10mV off from each other, but thats ok as they do it consistently. To simplify the math, I can just use S1.

Since I am using LAMBDA in PE vs RPM, would this work also?
"{GM.HO2S11}/target_mv" effectively creating a BEN mult.

Now, about the cal_links.txt:
Is this going to work??

;P.E. Mode Commanded Fuel
B3618.ROW=SAE.RPM
B3618.RRR=CALC.PEMULT

Hopefully, if I only log RPM, TPS, O2S1, PEMULT I can speed up logging and use tighter filters for better resolution near the PE breakpoints.

I didn't get a manual, so I'm not sure about this.
Ah, the fun is in testing.

[405HP_Z06]

.....You read my mind. One minor problem is my o2 sensors run about 10mV off from each other, but thats ok as they do it consistently. To simplify the math, I can just use S1.

Since I am using LAMBDA in PE vs RPM, would this work also?
"{GM.HO2S11}/target_mv" effectively creating a BEN mult.

That would work, below is an example using the average of both banks in a single PID:


# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------

*CLC-01-900
factor 0.00 10.00 0.2 "((({GM.HO2S11} + {GM.HO2S21})/2) / target_mv)"



# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.O2_PEMULT F61C CLC-01-900 factor Fuel "NB O2 PE Factor"
Now, about the cal_links.txt:
Is this going to work??


;P.E. Mode Commanded Fuel
B3618.ROW=SAE.RPM
B3618.RRR=CALC.PEMULTHopefully, if I only log RPM, TPS, O2S1, PEMULT I can speed up logging and use tighter filters for better resolution near the PE breakpoints.

I didn't get a manual, so I'm not sure about this.
Ah, the fun is in testing.

That looks correct for the cal_links.txt file.

[hquick]

405HP ZO6....I think you should be getting kickbacks from Moates and EFILive for all of the work your doing.
Well done and thanks.

[405HP_Z06]

405HP ZO6....I think you should be getting kickbacks from Moates and EFILive for all of the work your doing.
Well done and thanks.

Thanks Howard, I'm just trying to help out. Documentation is one of the most difficult pieces to create/maintain but is worth it's weight in gold if done correctly.

I'm trying to put together a document with all of the pertinent information required to install/use/tune with the RoadRunner. It's not fun bouncing around all over the place searching for information.

[hquick]

I'm just trying to help out
And...you're doing an awesome job of it.
You're right. I reckon I've read every thread in the forums looking for info...alot of it seems to boil down to trial and error.
I prefer your method.:cheers:

[405HP_Z06]

EFILive beta V7.5.4 (Build 44) and beyond:
RTACS now supports Addition, subtraction, multiplication
and division as well as the
current BEN factor percentage adjustment.
Just add the operator (+, -, * or /) you wish
to use followed by a comma before the first PID name in
the *.RRR key like this: Bxxxx.RRR=+,<pidname> Leave it blank to use the standard BEN factor %.

Mr. P,
Where did you find the reference to this? I'm running the latest Beta and I can't find this information anywhere. Do you know of any other features/functionality that are obscurely documented?

Thanks in advance!

[TFZ_Z06]

I don't know where he found it, but I tested the "+" and it works.
In any case, please check out this RTACS example. I think its not recognizing the .RRR function for whatever reason. To name a few, I am logging RPM and COMMANDED FUEL. The CALC.PEMULT I created works great and does what I expected, its just not getting applied.

I turned Accuracy to 0, coarse and fine to 1000 to test and even to 1.

Any idea why it won't change the lambda values? Also, even with "all" tps values, it still doesn't matter.

http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/rtacs1.jpg

[TFZ_Z06]

Ok, I think I figured it out. After playing w/the cell lock buttons, the system seemed to come to life.

More real time testing tommorrow...

[mr.prick]

Mr. P,
Where did you find the reference to this? I'm running the latest Beta and I can't find this information anywhere. Do you know of any other features/functionality that are obscurely documented?

Thanks in advance!

program files>efilive>FlashScan AutoCal V2.5 Release Notes _Beta_.pdf
it was available since EFILive beta V7.5.4 (Build 44)

[405HP_Z06]

program files>efilive>FlashScan AutoCal V2.5 Release Notes _Beta_.pdf
it was available since EFILive beta V7.5.4 (Build 44)

Found it, thanks!