hydrogen

[69camaro5speed]

has anyone tryed a hydrogen generator yet. looks to good to be true but maybe with a tune and all the bells and wisels it may work.people are making hydrogen generators and putting them on cars claming big milage gaines. looks like with 02 tricking it alows you to lean out afr because the hydrogen can burn leaner.has anyone tryed it yet

[SBTuner]

I have some experience with this and can say that it didn't work for us. I was tasked with getting the vehicle to pass the FTP 505 test. We were able to make some improvements, but after we trimmed the proper amount of carbon out of the base AF we found that we were lacking a reserve of Hydrogen for the hard load pull in the middle of the test resulting in major Nox!

o2 sensor switch points were manipulated in order to offset the Hydrogen. Without this, the vehicle actually gets worse mileage on a narrow band feedback system since the Hydrogen makes it look like the AF is lean!

Regards,

[69camaro5speed]

i was thinking of trying to use it only for idle and low speed crusing that makes sence though its funny how many people clame it works one guy says his avalanch went from 14 to 34 miles to gallion boy wouldn't that be nice. i think a stick shift could be best with some bells and whisles to kick up the hydrogen perduction on decell.did you make your own generator ? i did one with a friend in couple hours it make 5 gallions in hour of hydrogen gas @24 amps.i am thinking needs lot more because its a gas not liquid be nice to know bsfc of hydrogen in a gas state

[joecar]

Do you use flat DC or pulsed DC (what frequency...?)...?

[69camaro5speed]

i used a flat dc but i havent tested much i only have about 5 hours working on it. pulsed dc is a idea if i get to much generating would be sweet to just go off the injector relay.i realy find it hard to beleave it can be done and make 50% gaine in milage but worth trying for what little money it takes to try it

[scdyne]

In desperate times people venture down every possible avenue to save money. This is also when con artists are most inclined to offer up the next 'great idea'. This electrolysis technique is just another attempt at a perpetual energy machine and nothing more than a gimmick to get money out of every sucker willing to part ways with it.
The mantra 69camar.. uttered is a sign that you are a prime candidate for pickings.

...or what little money it takes to try it...

If you ever catch yourself thinking or saying this then you know that whatever decision you are about to make is probably NOT worth trying.

However everyone is welcome to do what they want so don't let my jaded opinion influence anyone's decisions.

There are more than a few SAE papers on this concept and multiple sources concluded that the energy required to produce enough Hydrogen to supplement fuel delivery is cost prohibitive. Even during low load conditions results were equal to that of a gas only closed loop lean cruse system.
GM concluded that an HCCI engine is equally capable and doesn't require any additional systems like this Hydrogen package does.

[69camaro5speed]

you are probly right i am not buying any thing from anyone just a little home brew kit very little money spent so i ant out anything

[Mike@Vengeance]

Okay guys we put one of these we made on my Dads 2.2 S-10 that all he does is go to work.

We built it with plans off the internet and my dad bought some Map unit that plays with the MAP voltage.

He has tested it and it does seem to work. Not sure what it is doing to his engine as we have no real 02 readings or Dyno data of any sort. I have never messed with the tune at all.

The truck normally would get 19-20MPG on the hwy going to work. With the unit running and the Map dialed back he is seeing about 26-27MPG. So something is doing something. I believe he just might be leaning it out with the MAP but it was his project I just helped hook it up.

I would never use it on a truck that pulls anything for sure.

[Chuck CoW]

has anyone tryed a hydrogen generator yet. looks to good to be true but maybe with a tune and all the bells and wisels it may work.people are making hydrogen generators and putting them on cars claiming big mileage gains. looks like with 02 tricking it allows you to lean out afr because the hydrogen can burn leaner.has anyone tried it yet

I've been doing it for a time now.....I've got a system running on my 02 Tahoe. I'm doing it for a local company and ain't supposed to say much about it yet, but it does work...

Right now I'm playing with required volumes of HHO and calibration issues....

Kinda fun...

Chuck CoW

[vzsv8]

I have been looking at the idea of adding hydrogen and oxygen to motors since the 1970, but have never bothered to do it. It could only help economy and I prefer power:angel_innocent:
This is what I conclude; Hydrogen has the ability to ignite at around 1% (vs 25% for petrol), hydrogen burns at around 100 times faster than petrol. This means that adding small volumes to the inlet of a motor that is well tuned will achieve little. Hovever-
If you were brave enough to set up lean cruise to lean out to say 30 to 1 or more while introducing the hydrogen. I predict that the hydrogen would act as an ignition source and the motor would run in a type of stratified charge mode. Exhaust temps, including valve temps, should be very low (yes low) at this mixture level.
As an additional benefit the motor would make less torque, so the throttle blade would need to opened further, reducing pumping losses, more economy gains.
This is not rocket science, Diesels work like this all the time, only they rely on compression and heat to light the fire, my method relys on the easy ignition of the hydrogen.
Cheers, Steve

[Chevy366]

What would be nice is to be able to generate enough hydrogen to fuel a motor without gasoline !
Stanley Myers was suppose to have made a VW buggy run with no gasoline just hydrogen .
Octane rating is 130 , Quote from Wikipedia : Hydrogen does not fit well into the normal definitions of octane number. It has a very high RON and a low MON , so that it has low knock resistance in practice , due to its low ignition energy (primarily due to its low dissociation energy) and extremely high flame speed. These traits are highly desirable in rocket engines, but undesirable in Otto-cycle engines. However, as a minor blending component (e.g. in a bi-fuel vehicle), hydrogen raises overall knock resistance. Flame speed is limited by the rest of the component species; hydrogen may reduce knock by contributing its high thermal conductivity .

Gil

[Bruce Melton]

Current technology does not seem adequate to generate enough with an onboard rig. We fooled with it-- gave up.

[Dtuner]

gentlemen thank you for your input. and you are all correct in reference to orthohydrogen. It has a uncontrolable burn rate to put it mildly,, It would require a cold fusion plug. to fire on 100% HHO. the ingredient is parahydrogen .. we can control the octane ( to put it into simple terms). and we can control the flash(burn rate).throw away the text book AND THINK OUTSIDE THE BOXit's working very well. we will be holdindg an EFI Live class at my facility. in March with NIck from Duramaxtuner.com . please sign up and come attend. Thanks Rick

[random_user]

I have little experience with this topic (1 car) but it doesn't seem to do much. It is my opinion that the modules that they sell just trick the car into running leaner. I don't think that much H2 is actually produced. The chemistry doesn't really work out on that either, because it takes too much energy to make Hydrogen via electrolysis. Since heat is a product of reaction, that is just wasted energy. This is the reason why we don't see more H2 vehicles. It may burn clean, but it takes too much energy to produce. Also, if you were putting a bunch of explosive gas in the intake of a car, it seems that might be a bit of a risk to me. I guess to sum it all up, I have seen little impact, and didn't expect to either given all of the other practical issues. That is probably why the NHTSA has also announced that it doesn't work (along with fuel "catalysts").

[joecar]

random,

Welcome to the forum...:cheers:

Good point, the laws of thermodynamics/conservation cannot be violated... nothing is for free.

Joe
:)

[duramaxdiesel224]

yea that stuff works great on diesels i got a 40% gain on my duramax
reduced my emissions from 3.5 to .08
77% reduction

[Bruce Melton]

yea that stuff works great on diesels i got a 40% gain on my duramax
reduced my emissions from 3.5 to .08
77% reduction

You must have a special magic device, that the rest of the world is unaware of.
40% gain in what?
:secret:

[Chevy366]

Yeah have a couple of diesel guys say they got a good increase with the Hydrogen Kits , some going from 17 to 24 mpg .
Still not a believer of this Brown Gas .

[Bruce Melton]

The volume of hydrogen required seems to be the issue. Takes lots of current (AMPS) to get adequate volume to make a noticeable difference, which works against brewing your own on the fly.
Now, propane seems to do good things for diesels in terms of power and economy even considering the propane cost.

[duramaxdiesel224]

mpg sorry 40% gain check it out its a magdrive unit
it only draws 15amps

[wpage]

Duramaxdiesel,
Could you expand on this or give a link to support this claim...

mpg sorry 40% gain check it out its a magdrive unit
it only draws 15amps

[Dtuner]

In Response to your post, that was directed to my mail, My Company High performance Research & Development/ HPRND.com Has doubled fuel economy on some engines, with our HHO fuel assit systems, with extensive testing. I don't know the people at Mag Drive, I Cannot confirm a 40% gain at 15amps. But It is a very small HHO system and a very small gas engine as well, such as a small 3 liter gas engine. beware there a many backyard builders out there selling. poorly engineered unsafe HHO units. feel free to contact me at 941-376-5287 or e-mail me Rick@hprnd.com.. our site is under a complete makeover so bear with us... As I will give you the straight accurate truth. of these systems.. I can tell you that our systems using Digital controllers.with safetyand thermal shut down features.Have taken for example : a Large Detroit series 60/425Hp engine. in a tractor trailer. from 4.5mpg to 7.8 mpg. and my own personal 08 LMM Duramax from factory stock 10.5 MPG to 24 MPG with our HHO system and custom EFI Live tune, on our in house chassis Dyno. It produces 550rwp. With the extensive knowledge and help from my friend Nick at Duramaxtuner.com

[wpage]

Dtuner
Thanks for that reply. My interest is in gas engines. Using HHO with a GM 3.5 and a eagle research efie to tweak the o2 sensor. So far with limited success 10-15% gains...
Looks like others with carbureted engines using HHO and no o2 sensors have better averages. Your diesel #'s are impressive.

[Dtuner]

Check out fuelsaver-mpg.com there quad efie controllers work well for me. I just booked in a 06 H2 with the 6.0 engine,I will be making changes to it with 3" dual exhaust/magnaflow muffler/and cold air intake, it will be dyno tested, with efie quad to get a base line. then our HHO Hydro-Max system will be installed.and run again with efie adjustments /02 monitoring and EGT.also with EFILive tuning. the last one I did achieved 21mpg over 11mpg when stock.and ran 130mph on the dyno. with 02 readings in the 17s AFR. and yet maintaining 900 to 1200 .with HHO and proper tuning I see lower EGT's consistently. on 89 and 91 octane. So I recommend a more accurate EFIE and monitor those EGTs.!!!!!!!