{B3647} Open loop AFR

[87gmc]

I understand using this table and setting everything to 14.63 should make the PCM go Close loop, am I correct?

Ok I followed the steps

B4206 Always Use Open Loop EQRatio Tabe : Disable (My Os Didnt have it)

B4205 Closed Loop Temp Enable: Set to max setting (Set mine to 284)

B4108 STFT Idle Enable: Disable

Loaded it into the car and started it let it idle for a while and never went out of open loop. I moniter my afr and it was commanded at 14.68 which my table was set at 14.63. I would give it gas and I would see my afr climb at the points where I adjusted it to.

My question is will the car go into close loop when on the highway if it is hitting the tables where it is 14.63? I know if its not on 14.63 it will go open loop.

I know Disabling STFT IDLE will more than likely keep it in open loop at idle. Is there a purpose to this or this just a technique to activate the Open Loop AFR table. I'm trying to make sure i did everything right

Chris

[Tordne]

You basically stopped the car ever going Closed Loop with the change to {B4205}.

What have you done with {B3618} PE Modifier Based on RPM?

[87gmc]

You basically stopped the car ever going Closed Loop with the change to {B4205}.

What have you done with {B3618} PE Modifier Based on RPM?

I left the B3618 alone, I followed the instructions in efilive http://efilive.com/downloads/customos/Custom%20OS%20Upgrade%20Tutorial.pdf Tutorial.

Also Ross talk about it some in this post http://www.efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1990&start=15

I know im doing something wrong.

[87gmc]

I'm thinking something may be wrong with table everytime i save it at 14.63 and close the file and reopen its back at 14.62. If Ross is correct about stating it wont go into close loop unless it 14.63 that maybe a problem there also

[Tordne]

{B3801} set to "Disabled" also?

Interesting about the 14.62 thing. I know that the 14.63 number in a lot of cases is actually 14.628573

[87gmc]

Ok so i didnt read down far enough, i swear i get ahead of myself

Ok so long term needs to be disabled also along with STFT is what i gather.

[GMPX]

Something to try, change your units to EQ ratio, make sure that number is 1.00, though rounding errors from the conversion of EQ to AFR is not a known issue right now.
As soon as the O2 sensors become ready (you can monitor that using the PID GM.STATE05) then the PCM will look to the values in table B3647.
If the O2 sensors never become ready then it won't ever go into closed loop via table B3647. Can you please check that out with that PID.
On a warm restart that should only take about 20 - 30 seconds normally.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

hey ross did you ever get cal for 1270003? i need it

[GMPX]

hey ross did you ever get cal for 1270003? i need it

Paul needs to update the Zip file on the website, hassle him :lol:

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

hey ross did you ever get cal for 1270003? i need it

Paul needs to update the Zip file on the website, hassle him :lol:

Cheers,
Ross

Man even if sends it to me in a email, im not ready to copy and paste again. Going through all the cal is not fun copy and past, copy and paste :oops:

[GMPX]

Man even if sends it to me in a email, im not ready to copy and paste again. Going through all the cal is not fun copy and past, copy and paste :oops:

I can't generate the cal files, since they were posted I have already changed and added a few things. Please Email Paul, he will have that cal set to suit what you need.

Not trying to wipe my hands of it, but it's not something I can do.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

Man even if sends it to me in a email, im not ready to copy and paste again. Going through all the cal is not fun copy and past, copy and paste :oops:

I can't generate the cal files, since they were posted I have already changed and added a few things. Please Email Paul, he will have that cal set to suit what you need.

Not trying to wipe my hands of it, but it's not something I can do.

Cheers,
Ross

Just giving you a hard time :-)

Oh Paul are you there HEHE

[87gmc]

I had posted in here and its gone is something wrong with the site?

[87gmc]

Ross did everything that was instructed and watched how stft worked when in 14.68afr. I finally understood what semi open loop means and also it seems it runs better in semi open loop than full close loop. Today im going to do somemore tuning with the wideband and also what are some safe lean numbers to run, i kinda of looked at lean cruise from holden but i didnt know if to follow these numbers. One thing I would like to see and I know maybe its just me but a parameter that triggers the table b3647 such as engine has to be so warm before it will follow the table.

[BowlingSS]

Ross did everything that was instructed and watched how stft worked when in 14.68afr. I finally understood what semi open loop means and also it seems it runs better in semi open loop than full close loop. Today im going to do somemore tuning with the wideband and also what are some safe lean numbers to run, i kinda of looked at lean cruise from holden but i didnt know if to follow these numbers. One thing I would like to see and I know maybe its just me but a parameter that triggers the table b3647 such as engine has to be so warm before it will follow the table.

I am running in open loop all the time. Have you tried to run in just open loop all the time? I might have to try semi open loop to see the difference.

Bill
:D

[87gmc]

Ross did everything that was instructed and watched how stft worked when in 14.68afr. I finally understood what semi open loop means and also it seems it runs better in semi open loop than full close loop. Today im going to do somemore tuning with the wideband and also what are some safe lean numbers to run, i kinda of looked at lean cruise from holden but i didnt know if to follow these numbers. One thing I would like to see and I know maybe its just me but a parameter that triggers the table b3647 such as engine has to be so warm before it will follow the table.

I am running in open loop all the time. Have you tried to run in just open loop all the time? I might have to try semi open loop to see the difference.

Bill
:D

Yea i have tried the open loop full time but what i like about semi is stft are still used such as at idel and part throttle which helps the truck run even smoother

[BowlingSS]

[/quote]
Yea i have tried the open loop full time but what i like about semi is stft are still used such as at idel and part throttle which helps the truck run even smoother[/quote]

To go into semi open loop do you just enable stft's and that is it?
Everything else stays the same as openloop all the time, right?

Thanks,
Bill

[87gmc]

Yea i have tried the open loop full time but what i like about semi is stft are still used such as at idel and part throttle which helps the truck run even smoother[/quote]

To go into semi open loop do you just enable stft's and that is it?
Everything else stays the same as openloop all the time, right?

Thanks,
Bill[/quote]


Follow the instruction that are posted, that will get you going. STFT are disabled i know it dont make sense but Ross has these things setup and thats what he said to do and it does work

[BowlingSS]

Yea i have tried the open loop full time but what i like about semi is stft are still used such as at idel and part throttle which helps the truck run even smoother

To go into semi open loop do you just enable stft's and that is it?
Everything else stays the same as openloop all the time, right?

Thanks,
Bill[/quote]


Follow the instruction that are posted, that will get you going. STFT are disabled i know it dont make sense but Ross has these things setup and thats what he said to do and it does work[/quote]

To me it looks like if you have b3647 at 14.63 you will be in semi Open Loop. The question I HAVE is at the bottom of the page it states:
Several other STFT values may require adjustment:
b4101
b4102
b4103
b4104
b4108

Do you know if these need changing from stock?
Thanks,
Bill

[bink]

Yea i have tried the open loop full time but what i like about semi is stft are still used such as at idel and part throttle which helps the truck run even smoother

To go into semi open loop do you just enable stft's and that is it?
Everything else stays the same as openloop all the time, right?

Thanks,
Bill




Bill - Have you read this thread...especially note page 2 - GMPX's info on the custom V3 OS. ->>http://www.efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1990&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=668d5dea44ef7bddabd36f3a0e222208
Good info on Semi Open/Closed Loop.
Hope this helps some.

Cheers,
joel

[GMPX]

Looks like I better explain myself....

GM Original Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or P.E Mode, Lean Cruise etc, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when cold and the O2 sensors are ready but closed loop temp has not been reached, O2 sensor feedback at any AFR (Bad).
Closed Loop, looks to O2 sensors at all times except P.E mode etc.

EFILive Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or commanded AFR in B3647 is not equal to 14.63, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when commanded AFR is 14.63 in B3647 and closed loop enable temp has not been reached. O2 sensors are used but only when commanded AFR = 14.63
Closed Loop, DON'T ENABLE (set enable temps to max) or table B3647 will be ignored and the PCM will enter full closed loop.

In Semi closed loop there is no LTFT, only STFT, but this is no problem as someone already stated, you usually only want closed loop at idle / part throttle, and with the VE map perfect using the BEN factor there is no need for LTFT's anyway.

Does that help?.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

Looks like I better explain myself....

GM Original Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or P.E Mode, Lean Cruise etc, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when cold and the O2 sensors are ready but closed loop temp has not been reached, O2 sensor feedback at any AFR (Bad).
Closed Loop, looks to O2 sensors at all times except P.E mode etc.

EFILive Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or commanded AFR in B3647 is not equal to 14.63, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when commanded AFR is 14.63 in B3647 and closed loop enable temp has not been reached. O2 sensors are used but only when commanded AFR = 14.63
Closed Loop, DON'T ENABLE (set enable temps to max) or table B3647 will be ignored and the PCM will enter full closed loop.

In Semi closed loop there is no LTFT, only STFT, but this is no problem as someone already stated, you usually only want closed loop at idle / part throttle, and with the VE map perfect using the BEN factor there is no need for LTFT's anyway.

Does that help?.

Cheers,
Ross

Yup, also Ross any bounders or safe number we should stay on on the lean side on a bone stock 5.3L

[GMPX]

Yup, also Ross any bounders or safe number we should stay on on the lean side on a bone stock 5.3L

Don't get tuning advice from a programmer!!.
In my experience with my car 15.5:1 - 15.8:1 was about the limit then it started to surge, I have had no experience with the 5.3L.
You would certainly be pretty safe there though, you know when you go too far becuase the engine gets lazy, next stage is it starts to misfire, next stage is a new MAF because it backfired through the intake :wink:

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

Yup, also Ross any bounders or safe number we should stay on on the lean side on a bone stock 5.3L

Don't get tuning advice from a programmer!!.
In my experience with my car 15.5:1 - 15.8:1 was about the limit then it started to surge, I have had no experience with the 5.3L.
You would certainly be pretty safe there though, you know when you go too far becuase the engine gets lazy, next stage is it starts to misfire, next stage is a new MAF because it backfired through the intake :wink:

Cheers,
Ross

HAHA just making sure it seems to run better in the lean spots versus the closed loop areas (14.68). it has been tuned with ben but i will retune it again.

[BowlingSS]

Looks like I better explain myself....

GM Original Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or P.E Mode, Lean Cruise etc, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when cold and the O2 sensors are ready but closed loop temp has not been reached, O2 sensor feedback at any AFR (Bad).
Closed Loop, looks to O2 sensors at all times except P.E mode etc.

EFILive Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or commanded AFR in B3647 is not equal to 14.63, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when commanded AFR is 14.63 in B3647 and closed loop enable temp has not been reached. O2 sensors are used but only when commanded AFR = 14.63
Closed Loop, DON'T ENABLE (set enable temps to max) or table B3647 will be ignored and the PCM will enter full closed loop.

In Semi closed loop there is no LTFT, only STFT, but this is no problem as someone already stated, you usually only want closed loop at idle / part throttle, and with the VE map perfect using the BEN factor there is no need for LTFT's anyway.

Does that help?.
Cheers,
Ross

Ross I follow the above. My question is on your OS3 doc you state the following:
Several other STFT values may require adjustment:
b4101
b4102
b4103
b4104
b4108

Do you know if these need changing from stock?

Also since your Stft's are disabled you can not log the results. And since your STFT is disabled do any of the above parameters make any difference. I guess I am slow but if the STFT is disabled why do you need to adjust any other STFT parameters?

Thanks,
Bill

[87gmc]

Looks like I better explain myself....

GM Original Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or P.E Mode, Lean Cruise etc, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when cold and the O2 sensors are ready but closed loop temp has not been reached, O2 sensor feedback at any AFR (Bad).
Closed Loop, looks to O2 sensors at all times except P.E mode etc.

EFILive Code -
Open Loop, used when cold or commanded AFR in B3647 is not equal to 14.63, O2 sensors are ignored.
Semi Open Loop, used when commanded AFR is 14.63 in B3647 and closed loop enable temp has not been reached. O2 sensors are used but only when commanded AFR = 14.63
Closed Loop, DON'T ENABLE (set enable temps to max) or table B3647 will be ignored and the PCM will enter full closed loop.

In Semi closed loop there is no LTFT, only STFT, but this is no problem as someone already stated, you usually only want closed loop at idle / part throttle, and with the VE map perfect using the BEN factor there is no need for LTFT's anyway.

Does that help?.
Cheers,
Ross

Ross I follow the above. My question is on your OS3 doc you state the following:
Several other STFT values may require adjustment:
b4101
b4102
b4103
b4104
b4108

Do you know if these need changing from stock?

Also since your Stft's are disabled you can not log the results. And since your STFT is disabled do any of the above parameters make any difference. I guess I am slow but if the STFT is disabled why do you need to adjust any other STFT parameters?

Thanks,
Bill

Yes disable them all, fill in numbers that will disable them, worked for me

[GMPX]

Ross I follow the above. My question is on your OS3 doc you state the following:
Several other STFT values may require adjustment:
b4101
b4102
b4103
b4104
b4108

Thanks,
Bill

Bill, I found in testing that leaving those enabled did make the AFR's behave not how I wanted, disabling them fixed the problem.
Disabling the Idle STFT {B4108} just means the PCM will use the non idle STFT tables, that is probably better since you might be commanding 14.63 in non idle places you just want uniform STFT correction accross the board.

Cheers,
Ross

[BowlingSS]

Ross I follow the above. My question is on your OS3 doc you state the following:
Several other STFT values may require adjustment:
b4101
b4102
b4103
b4104
b4108

Thanks,
Bill

Bill, I found in testing that leaving those enabled did make the AFR's behave not how I wanted, disabling them fixed the problem.
Disabling the Idle STFT {B4108} just means the PCM will use the non idle STFT tables, that is probably better since you might be commanding 14.63 in non idle places you just want uniform STFT correction accross the board.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross. I already had b4108 disabled but the others I had stock. I changed the others to the max they would go.

Bill

[Tordne]

Ross I follow the above. My question is on your OS3 doc you state the following:
Several other STFT values may require adjustment:
b4101
b4102
b4103
b4104
b4108

Thanks,
Bill

Bill, I found in testing that leaving those enabled did make the AFR's behave not how I wanted, disabling them fixed the problem.
Disabling the Idle STFT {B4108} just means the PCM will use the non idle STFT tables, that is probably better since you might be commanding 14.63 in non idle places you just want uniform STFT correction accross the board.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross. I already had b4108 disabled but the others I had stock. I changed the others to the max they would go.

Bill

I think you may need to actually set the values to the min. Reading the descriptions it says that the speed must be below the value for closed-loop fuelling to occur. This is assuming you wanted to disable closed-loop fuelling?

Is this right Ross?

I set {B4101}, {B4102}, {B4103}, {B4104} to 0 & {B4108} to Disabled. Is that correct?

Cheers,

[GMPX]

Correct Andrew, the values need to be minimised.

Cheers,
Ross

[BowlingSS]

Correct Andrew, the values need to be minimised.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks guys.

Bill

[87gmc]

Hey Ross question on the afr vs rpm table.

I have it tuned lean in lets say crusing speed areas. My question is does it hurt the engine to accelerate lean, i notice im hitting areas of lean such as 15.5 when im picking up speed and this areas that usually you cruise.

I look at the lean cruise table and notice it has to meet certain speeds and time to come into play. Is this for EPA standards or for hurting engine standards?

Oh yea #3 custom kicks A@#

[Chris81]

Any ideas on how to get a good idle in cold weather with B3647? Is there something i'm missing in the idle tables?

I'm assuming it is doing this for one b/c the AFR is leaner at startup and two.. B4108 is disabled. What do I do?

Or, should moving say 400-1600 rpm, 20-40 kPa richer than 14.63 fix the problem?

My car wouldn't idle at all this morning in 40 degree weather.. the IAC was going crazy.. lol

[GMPX]

Hey Ross question on the afr vs rpm table.

I have it tuned lean in lets say crusing speed areas. My question is does it hurt the engine to accelerate lean, i notice im hitting areas of lean such as 15.5 when im picking up speed and this areas that usually you cruise.

I look at the lean cruise table and notice it has to meet certain speeds and time to come into play. Is this for EPA standards or for hurting engine standards?

Oh yea #3 custom kicks A@#

When my car was stock I monitored the AFR's in lean cruise and it went well into the 16's, look at the settings in a Holden file, they run like that even up to about 0.50g/cyl.

Before I had an LS1 I drove another Holden fitted with a 5L V8, on that car I changed the lean cruise settings to kick in very fast, like a 5 second delay.

The timers/ speed settings are in there so lean cruise should only kick in when you are out on the highway, with fuel prices these days you can bet any Holden owner with a tuning tool has changed that. I suspect for sure that is for emissions compliance. In fact I would say in Australia the cars are not tested at those speeds or for 60 seconds only.

So in summary, only going out to 15.5 should be fine, afterall, I thought 14.7 was just the AFR the cat converter operated at it's maximum efficency.

Cheers,
Ross

[Chris81]

Any ideas on how to get a good idle in cold weather with B3647? Is there something i'm missing in the idle tables?

I'm assuming it is doing this for one b/c the AFR is leaner at startup and two.. B4108 is disabled. What do I do?

Or, should moving say 400-1600 rpm, 20-40 kPa richer than 14.63 fix the problem?

My car wouldn't idle at all this morning in 40 degree weather.. the IAC was going crazy.. lol

All good now, A0008 fixed it.

[GMPX]

Any ideas on how to get a good idle in cold weather with B3647? Is there something i'm missing in the idle tables?

I'm assuming it is doing this for one b/c the AFR is leaner at startup and two.. B4108 is disabled. What do I do?

Or, should moving say 400-1600 rpm, 20-40 kPa richer than 14.63 fix the problem?

My car wouldn't idle at all this morning in 40 degree weather.. the IAC was going crazy.. lol

Chris,

Assuming the idle tables are O.K, you need to monitor what your commanded AFR is, if it is 14.63 then you have other issues, if it is 11 then yeah, probably too rich.
Do you have a WBO2 you can confirm the AFR's with?.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

Hey Ross question on the afr vs rpm table.

I have it tuned lean in lets say crusing speed areas. My question is does it hurt the engine to accelerate lean, i notice im hitting areas of lean such as 15.5 when im picking up speed and this areas that usually you cruise.

I look at the lean cruise table and notice it has to meet certain speeds and time to come into play. Is this for EPA standards or for hurting engine standards?

Oh yea #3 custom kicks A@#

When my car was stock I monitored the AFR's in lean cruise and it went well into the 16's, look at the settings in a Holden file, they run like that even up to about 0.50g/cyl.

Before I had an LS1 I drove another Holden fitted with a 5L V8, on that car I changed the lean cruise settings to kick in very fast, like a 5 second delay.

The timers/ speed settings are in there so lean cruise should only kick in when you are out on the highway, with fuel prices these days you can bet any Holden owner with a tuning tool has changed that. I suspect for sure that is for emissions compliance. In fact I would say in Australia the cars are not tested at those speeds or for 60 seconds only.

So in summary, only going out to 15.5 should be fine, afterall, I thought 14.7 was just the AFR the cat converter operated at it's maximum efficency.

Cheers,
Ross

Just wanted to make sure if i dont hurt the engine. Didnt know if it was coming at certain speeds for a reason of hurting the engine or some kinda of law other countries have