Paul, Throttle body scaler.

[jfpilla]

As a result of trying to tune airflow I'm pretty certain the Effective Area table does not apply to the electronic throttle body.
There is a table called "Electronic Throttle Area Scaler", or the like, that seems to be what is needed.
Joe

[GMPX]

Not a table, but a single value {B4349}.

Cheers,
Ross

[jfpilla]

Not a table, but a single value {B4349}.

Cheers,
Ross

Ross,
Thanks.
Joe

[jfpilla]

Ross,
Is it valid to determine a factor by using the % difference between a 78mm and 90mm? .8667. Should it be used to multiply or divide .0254?
Thanks
Joe

[jfpilla]

Not a table, but a single value {B4349}.

Cheers,
Ross

Is it available yet? I can't find it.

[bink]

Joe,
V7.3
Engine Cal-> Idle ->General Parameters -> B4349 ETC Throttle Area Conversion - This calibration limits the desired idle effective area.

It works with my ETC (2001). Maybe you are too far out of range?? Have you checked the idle pids - Long term and short term idle trims??

joel

[bink]

Ross,
Is it valid to determine a factor by using the % difference between a 78mm and 90mm? .8667. Should it be used to multiply or divide .0254?
Thanks
Joe

I believe the 78 and 90 are diameters. Area of a circle:

Area = pi * R ^2

R=1/2D, pi= 3.1416

A= 3.1416 * (1/2D) ^2

For 78 mm A = 3.1416* (1/2 * 78 ) ^2 = 4778.38 mm2 = 47.78 cm2

90 mm A= 3.1416* (1/2 * 90) ^2 = 6361.74 mm2 = 63.61 cm2

63.61 cm2 ( 90 mm) / 47.78 cm2 ( 78mm) = 133.13 % increase in surface area.

Hope this helps some.

cheers,
joel

[jfpilla]

Joe,
V7.3
Engine Cal-> Idle ->General Parameters -> B4349 ETC Throttle Area Conversion - This calibration limits the desired idle effective area.

It's not there.

It works with my ETC (2001). Maybe you are too far out of range?? Have you checked the idle pids - Long term and short term idle trims??

What works? Eff. Area?

joel

[jfpilla]

Ross,
Is it valid to determine a factor by using the % difference between a 78mm and 90mm? .8667. Should it be used to multiply or divide .0254?
Thanks
Joe

I believe the 78 and 90 are diameters. Area of a circle:

Area = pi * R ^2

R=1/2D, pi= 3.1416

A= 3.1416 * (1/2D) ^2

For 78 mm A = 3.1416* (1/2 * 78 ) ^2 = 4778.38 mm2 = 47.78 cm2

90 mm A= 3.1416* (1/2 * 90) ^2 = 6361.74 mm2 = 63.61 cm2

63.61 cm2 ( 90 mm) / 47.78 cm2 ( 78mm) = 133.13 % increase in surface area.

Hope this helps some.

cheers,
joel

Thanks, Joel. Big help. Joe +33.13% ?

[bink]

Ross,
Is it valid to determine a factor by using the % difference between a 78mm and 90mm? .8667. Should it be used to multiply or divide .0254?
Thanks
Joe

I believe the 78 and 90 are diameters. Area of a circle:

Area = pi * R ^2

R=1/2D, pi= 3.1416

A= 3.1416 * (1/2D) ^2

For 78 mm A = 3.1416* (1/2 * 78 ) ^2 = 4778.38 mm2 = 47.78 cm2

90 mm A= 3.1416* (1/2 * 90) ^2 = 6361.74 mm2 = 63.61 cm2

63.61 cm2 ( 90 mm) / 47.78 cm2 ( 78mm) = 133.13 % increase in surface area.

Hope this helps some.

cheers,
joel

Thanks, Joel. Big help. Joe +33.13% ?

Joe - I copied the Max Desired Idle Area {B4350} description, above :oops: .
The correct B4349 description is -> "Used to convert a desired throttle area from square millimeters to ETC motor position".



Your 90 mmTB is 33% larger than a 78mm. I'm not sure if you shouldn't increase the B4950 above 84 - since your engine is 364 ci it should require more air at idle (~10.5%). If the Eff. Area Table doesn't work it would make sense it may be out of range . Your 84 mm2 / 174 step may not be enough. (moved 7 places/cells to right- IAC eff area?) :?

[jfpilla]

Joel,
I had to install the config. file to get the ETC table.
Appreciate your ideas. You know I'll try everything, one at a time.
Thanks
Joe

[bink]

Joel,
I had to install the config. file to get the ETC table.
Appreciate your ideas. You know I'll try everything, one at a time.
Thanks
Joe

You're welcome :D
Keep us posted!!

Cheers,
joel

[jfpilla]

I'm excited. ETC works so far. In 4 flashes.

1- Returned Effective area to stock. No SOP or logging changes.
2- Increased ETC by 110% vs stock. It helped.
3- Increased ETC by 120 vs stock. Better.
4- Increased ETC by 125 vs stock(.0320). Right on

AFParked is stock also and has been for a while.
The trims are closer to 0 and closer side to side.
RPM's went up in P/N while cruising. I reduced Airflow in P/N.
It now transitions to idle before I come to a stop and stays at those rpm's.
It idles smoother, believe it or not.

I will have to log from a cold start and drive from a cold start and see if learning occurs, before I get too excited.

Let me add some thanks.

I told Nick that Eff.Area did not seem to work. He felt it was for F_bodies and suggested I try ETC.

Flashscan, the tables to get it done, along with the ease and speed of the setup, really make tuning possible and fun. Thanks to Paul, Ross et al.

[milkman]

Very cool Joe.....

And I'm in California this weekend tuning, and Paul is the absolute man, he got me out of a huge bind when my dongle bit the dust, I can't thank him enough for helping to ensure the trip wasn't a total loss. Over the weekend no less! (He tuned his car yesterday, crossing my fingers he got great results.)

And the stuff we keep learning here is proof that if you're NOT learning every day, you're going backwards.

And I can wait to get that danged LS2 I built you on the rollers and see what it'll do!!

take it easy.....
-jeff

[jfpilla]

I'm excited. ETC works so far. In 4 flashes.

1- Returned Effective area to stock. No SOP or logging changes.
2- Increased ETC by 110% vs stock. It helped.
3- Increased ETC by 120 vs stock. Better.
4- Increased ETC by 125 vs stock(.0320). Right on

AFParked is stock also and has been for a while.
The trims are closer to 0 and closer side to side.
RPM's went up in P/N while cruising. I reduced Airflow in P/N.
It now transitions to idle before I come to a stop and stays at those rpm's.
It idles smoother, believe it or not.

I will have to log from a cold start and drive from a cold start and see if learning occurs, before I get too excited.

Let me add some thanks.

I told Nick that Eff.Area did not seem to work. He felt it was for F_bodies and suggested I try ETC.

Flashscan, the tables to get it done, along with the ease and speed of the setup, really make tuning possible and fun. Thanks to Paul, Ross et al.

I did more logging today and found that setting B4349 at .0330 was even closer.
Set B4350 at 100 and could not see any difference.
Idle airflow is affected by changing B4349. Since I'm at the SOP stage I'll have to wait for cooler weather to get it right across all airflow temps. It's so hot that the temps move right up to 105C too fast.

[jfpilla]

Very cool Joe.....

And I'm in California this weekend tuning, and Paul is the absolute man, he got me out of a huge bind when my dongle bit the dust, I can't thank him enough for helping to ensure the trip wasn't a total loss. Over the weekend no less! (He tuned his car yesterday, crossing my fingers he got great results.)

And the stuff we keep learning here is proof that if you're NOT learning every day, you're going backwards.

And I can wait to get that danged LS2 I built you on the rollers and see what it'll do!!

take it easy.....
-jeff

Jeff is Jeff Creech of Carolina Auto Masters. As soon as he can find dyno time for me I'll be there. The car feels very strong.

[jfpilla]

Here's my Idle Airflow table. It's close to stock. I think it could be if not for the 90mm TB. Needs cold weather tuning.

LABELS Idle Airflow (Grams/Second)
ECT °C {link: SAE.ECT} In Gear Park/Neutral
-40- 20.000000 ---18.849609
-28- 18.500000 ---17.469727
-16- 17.000000 ---16.200195
-4- 15.500000---15.240234
8- 14.400391 ---14.549805
20- 13.500000 ---14.259766
32- 12.240234 ---13.009766
44- 11.339844 ---11.419922
56- 11.000000 ---10.564453
68- 10.700195 ---10.129883
80- 9.200195 ---7.405273
92- 7.849609---7.200195
104- 7.740234---6.949219
116- 7.740234---6.949219
128- 7.740234---6.949219
140- 7.740234---6.949219