Liquid LPG injection???

[hquick]

Anyone had/have anything to do with this?
With the price of fuel....I'm seriously looking at converting to LPG. Gov't here gives a $2k rebate so it costs around $4500 for the conversion minus the $2000.
I calc'd I'd pay the $2500 off in a year in fuel savings.
Here's a pic of a converted VE 6.0L.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/hquick/liquidinjected60.jpg

These new systems run a completely seperate return fuel system complete with intank pump and their own reg.
They use the factory PCM for tuning.

[TAQuickness]

What's your current mileage/KMage and anticipated?

[hquick]

To be honest...I have no idea.
I get around 800-1000km to a 159L tank of juice running 98 octane($1.70L).
These new liquid injection units only drop around 5% on mileage.

[TAQuickness]

I did a quick spreadsheet based on your numbers. Anyhow, if the LPG injection truely only supports ~5% better mileage, it will take closer to a gas engines lifetime to payoff the $2500 conversion cost.

[hquick]

Don't think that's right.
I used this online calculator.

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?action=Convert

Used 30,000km.
Petrol at $1.70
LPG at $0.62
Conversion cost of $2500

[MN C5]

I did a quick spreadsheet based on your numbers. Anyhow, if the LPG injection truely only supports ~5% better mileage, it will take closer to a gas engines lifetime to payoff the $2500 conversion cost.

It would only take me 4-5 months to pay off a $3000 investment in a conversion. I suppose if you only drove 10,000 miles per year it might take some time.

[vxleather]

hmmm.... simple way i suppose is $1.70 minus $0.62 = $1.08 saving per L of fuel used. So cost of $2500, so at a saving of $1.08 per L how many L to use to make up $2500

Answer= $2500 / $1.08 = 2314.81 L must be used to retrieve the cost.. so if you use 15L per 100klm, you divide 2314.82 by 15L = 142.32 and then times that by 100 = 14232 klm

So simply you will have to as a average drive 14232 Klm on lpg to pay for it self.

[hquick]

Sounds right....which would be about 6 months for me.

[RonC]

My brother in law has a propane company and just had a conversion done on his Ford truck this weekend and said it was less than $2000 installed. I haven't seen it yet, but by the way he said it works, he described a unit I found on this website;

http://http://poweredbypropane.net/products/3.html

I have read up a little on it and it said the 355 HP limit is because of the flow limits of the regulator. By hooking up 2 regulators in parallel, the HP limit becomes much higher. I am going to look into it further as a possibility for my truck. It would pay for itself in about a year the way I drive. I just checked the website and the prices were not there. The 8 cyl kit was priced at $1400 without the tank.

Ron

[TAQuickness]

Don't think that's right.
I used this online calculator.

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?action=Convert

Used 30,000km.
Petrol at $1.70
LPG at $0.62
Conversion cost of $2500

That's an important detail ;)

I need to look into that for my truck.

[hquick]

Yes it is. Lol!
Petrol here works out to about $7.80 Gal.
That's just rediculous.
I always said I'd NEVER put the Burb on gas but now with these liquid injection units hitting the market....why not.
Problem with the earlier units is...they used to just spray the vapour into the throttle body/carby. BAD for superchargers!
A couple of BIG advantages now with the liquid injection and FI vehicles is 1) LPG is 104 Octane....I believe Propane is higher still...and 2) the fuel charge is alot cooler...so not such a great need for an intercooler. Another thing is....no wall wetting...so...that transient fuelling stuff a few of us are wanting for the LS1 op systems is not so vital.
I rang the supplier last night and was informed I'll need a 'universal kit'....which is about 6 months from release....Damn it!!!

[GMPX]

http://www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au/

These guys sell / install the system you are talking about, they tell me it works very nicely on GenIII's.

Cheers,
Ross

[hquick]

That's who I rang Ross.
Hey...whhilst you're here....any news on the transient tables for te LS1's? :cheers:

[jfclubby]

Hi Howard , You could try calling RAGE Racing LPG (08) 9250 8574 this workshops in W.A, They do alot of Gen3/Gen4 conversions and to my knowledge lots of blown combo's. They have LPG injectors that mount directly up to the standard fuel rail and manifold. This may be of some help to you.:)

Regards James.

[ls1vt209]

Has anyone tuned a car for unleaded and then had the liquid gas injection system hooked up. If so how did the tune react?

Or has anyone tuned a car that is solely run on liquid gas injection?

I have done a search and nothing.

Any answers would be great as I am thinking of going down this route.

[hquick]

You would have to re-tune for the LPG. I believe stoich is 15 to 1 as opposed to 14.7.
I imagine it may handle more timing also as the octane rating is higher.

[ls1vt209]

Knew it would take more timing, have a mate who has a VE Berlina L98 who had it tuned and then had the Liquid Gas Injection installed, hasn't had it retuned yet but I believe the installers do something to help the PCM cope with the gas.

Will do some ringing around tomorrow.

[ls1vt209]

Just an update guys, the L98 I was talking about has been retuned with gas in mind and the owner could not be happier. After doing around 3500km averaging 14.5l/100km on gas with 4 people and 250kg luggage he was happy. Once the car had been retuned with more timing added in the right areas and timing removed in others, he tells me that the car is much stronger all round with acceleration improved out of sight.

The car almost instantly dropped 2l/100km with around town driving so with some fwy stuff to come should improve some more.

The car did a timed 0 to 100 in 5.969 seconds and that was a full weight VE Berlina with the Liquid Gas system and a 50l gas tank in the spare wheel well (Spare not in vehicle). Also with the driver at 110kg, front passenger 100kg and rear passenger 130kg. Not a bad time considering the car was not even stalled up, just a foot off brake in sport auto mode and right foot planted.

Anyway just thought I would share this info with you for anyone interested in Liquid Gas Injection.