6 Speed Allison Tables

[LBZRCKS]

Any word on when we maybe getting more 6 speed Allison tables, specifically the ones for adaptive learning?

Thanks,
Jason

[LBZRCKS]

Ross?

[joecar]

Send a pm.

[LBZRCKS]

Send a pm.

He's GMPX right? don't think he takes pm's:)

[fire0021]

He's GMPX right? don't think he takes pm's:)

He does. send a email :)

[GMPX]

Sorry, here now :)
The tune tool has the TAP Presets folder that allows you to define the default 'preset' values, did you not find what you are looking for in there?
This was the same as the 5spd TCM.

Cheers,
Ross

[LBZRCKS]

Sorry, here now :)
The tune tool has the TAP Presets folder that allows you to define the default 'preset' values, did you not find what you are looking for in there?
This was the same as the 5spd TCM.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross, but i was thinking of the table D5053 and D5054 that are in the 5 speeds.

[Cougar281]

Ross could certainly answer better than I could, but I THINK GM removed those tables for 07+. They're there in the 06 6 speed tune (OS 15827766 Y0E), but not 07+. I wouldn't think GM would have changed things so much from one OS to the next that Ross couldn't find those two.

[LBZRCKS]

Ross could certainly answer better than I could, but I THINK GM removed those options for 07+. They're there in the 06 6 speed tune (OS 15827766 Y0E), but not 07+.

I hope not!:bash:

[GMPX]

I'm working on the 6spd stuff again today, I'll post some results, answers and any updates in this thread.
The 06 - 07's did change a bit in some areas, not sure why.


Cheers,
Ross

[LBZRCKS]

Thanks for the update! let me know if you need help testing some stuff out

[sdwolff98]

Hey GMPX,
Interesting thing I was wondering if anyone as of yet has looked at? I have a gas allison 6 speed 06 version with the a50 computer. Is there anyway to reprogram the computer to recognize different tap shift switch resistances? General motors decided on a very annoying habit they have roughly as I have found 9 different sets of tap shift resistances in their switch assemblies all using the same either t43 or a50 computers? is there a way to unlock this in the a50? I am wanting to use a gmc terrain console with shifter in my truck with the allison but its resisotr setting are pretty far off from the 06 allison tap shift resistors?

Thanks
Sean Wolff

[DURAtotheMAX]

Hey GMPX,
Interesting thing I was wondering if anyone as of yet has looked at? I have a gas allison 6 speed 06 version with the a50 computer. Is there anyway to reprogram the computer to recognize different tap shift switch resistances? General motors decided on a very annoying habit they have roughly as I have found 9 different sets of tap shift resistances in their switch assemblies all using the same either t43 or a50 computers? is there a way to unlock this in the a50? I am wanting to use a gmc terrain console with shifter in my truck with the allison but its resisotr setting are pretty far off from the 06 allison tap shift resistors?

Thanks
Sean Wolff

It would probably be much easier to just take the shifter apart and solder in the GM truck value resistors. (they are the same for all 2006+ GM trucks/SUV's with tap-shift)

[sdwolff98]

Duratothemax,
Chasing that avenue as well one of the resistors I found have to be bought in lots of 5k lol or about 800$ per 5k lot rotflmao. I am hoping some of the companies I have emailed will send me samples waiting to see. luckily the terrain has the same type wiring circuit as the trucks. actually the tap shifter resistors in the trucks are all the same the suvs used a different value set entirely. *chuckles* spent about 150 getting dtcs on mitchell to get the needed resistor info for this and cross referencing to the suv, camaro, corvettes models

Sean

[Kenneth Atkinson]

Duratothemax,
Chasing that avenue as well one of the resistors I found have to be bought in lots of 5k lol or about 800$ per 5k lot rotflmao. I am hoping some of the companies I have emailed will send me samples waiting to see. luckily the terrain has the same type wiring circuit as the trucks. actually the tap shifter resistors in the trucks are all the same the suvs used a different value set entirely. *chuckles* spent about 150 getting dtcs on mitchell to get the needed resistor info for this and cross referencing to the suv, camaro, corvettes models

Sean

dont want to bother i have a 2001 gas 3\4 chevy with 8.1 and the 5speed allison i have read it can be converted to a 6speed would you know this to be true or suggest who i could speak to about the process

[THEFERMANATOR]

dont want to bother i have a 2001 gas 3\4 chevy with 8.1 and the 5speed allison i have read it can be converted to a 6speed would you know this to be true or suggest who i could speak to about the process

The 8.1L can be converted by swapping over to an 06-07 classic trans, adding in the new style harness, and new style GEN IV TCM with the 06 8.1L flash. The 8.1L for 06 enabled 6th gear, but since the 8.1L was being phased out GM didn't switch it over to CAN BUS and stayed J1939. It is still alot of money to do the swap, for very little reward.

[Cougar281]

The 8.1L can be converted by swapping over to an 06-07 classic trans, adding in the new style harness, and new style GEN IV TCM with the 06 8.1L flash. The 8.1L for 06 enabled 6th gear, but since the 8.1L was being phased out GM didn't switch it over to CAN BUS and stayed J1939. It is still alot of money to do the swap, for very little reward.

Not with an 01. Everything electronic in the truck woul dhave to be swapped. 03+, you would be correct.

The only option for an 01, I believe, would be the Suncoast kit. I wouldn't recommend the Suncoast 6 speed conversion, and it's not worth the money for what you get - you don't get dramatic fuel savings.

[DURAtotheMAX]

The 8.1L can be converted by swapping over to an 06-07 classic trans, adding in the new style harness, and new style GEN IV TCM with the 06 8.1L flash. The 8.1L for 06 enabled 6th gear, but since the 8.1L was being phased out GM didn't switch it over to CAN BUS and stayed J1939. It is still alot of money to do the swap, for very little reward.

no.....no....


The 8.1 ECM has never had CAN. Duramax's have always had CAN. Yes, even 2001-2005. WHY can everyone not get this through their head. They just changed from J1939 (which is CAN!) to GMLAN (which is also CAN!) in 2006. All this talk of "can bus this" and "can bus that"...when no one even knows what they are talking about. Theres probably a dozen different variations of CAN. Different speeds, different message structure, etc. Everyone just thinks "oh there are two computers talking to eachother, MUST BE 'CANBUS'". And another pet peeve of mine, technically, the data bus is just called CAN, not CAN BUS. Controller Area Network....yeah its a type of dataBUS, but the name for it isnt "CAN bus". Just like my name is BEN...not "BEN HUMAN".... and you call your truck a "chevy silverado" and not a "chevy silverado truck".... but thats semantics, whatever.

Because the 8.1 ECM never supported CAN, GM used 3 discrete torque signal wires (basically just a square wave PWM signal) between the 8.1 ECM and Allison TCM to communicate throttle %, delivered torque, and requested torque for defuel. Because to add CAN controller chips to the 8.1 LS1-b ECM was more expensive than just telling a couple of the general purpose I/O's to read and produce some PWM signals.

2001-2007 8.1 ECM's are all configured the same way...GM made a special calibration for the 06-07 4th gen TCM that used those PWM signal wires, so they wouldnt have to redesign the 8.1 ECM to support GMLAN when the 8.1 was only going to be around for 2 more years anyway.

Its a pain to convert an 01-02 truck to a 6-speed, just because the instrument cluster design is different. You cant just stick an 03-07 cluster in an 01-02 truck. But you can stick an 06-07 cluster in an 03-05 truck. OH BUT WAIT I thought 06+ was "CAN BUS!!?". No...again....no. GMT-800 body was never CAN or GMLAN. Not in 1999, not in 2003, not in 2004, not in 2007. The whole body is Class 2 data bus only. The only "CAN" in an 01-05 Duramax is between ECM and TCM and FICM (and GPCM in LLY)...and the only CAN in an 06-07 Duramax is ECM and TCM and GPCM. The difference is that the 06-07 ECM and TCM did not interface with scan tools via Class 2 like the earlier trucks...they used GMLAN. Thats the only difference. The 06-07 ECM's still talk to the rest of the body with Class 2...its just when you plug your scan tool in to read data and/or reflash, its over GMLAN (CAN) instead of Class 2.

And 99-02 GMT-800's had Class 2...yes...they did. The difference was it wasnt fully integrated. Doors, windows, radio, HVAC, amplifier, lighting, etc was wired the old school way. 03+ the entire electrical system became multiplexed and everything switched over to being controlled by Class 2. The only modules that used Class 2 in 99-02 was the cluster, BCM, transfer case computer, and airbag module. So YES if you wanted to get fancy, you could repin the connector on an 01-02 cluster connector and plug in an 03-07 cluster. But oil pressure gauge wouldnt work unless you used an 03+ operating system in the ECM.

Didnt I already write a novel explaining this a year or so ago? Sometimes I dont even know why I bother.

[Kenneth Atkinson]

Alrighty then great job thank you so much for the info on the 5 speed the 5 speed works great I think i,ll leave it alone :):):):)...........

How about making the 8.1 really run ///////// is 400 hp reasonable heads cam and intake and headers how hard is it to tune it,,,,, probably the wrong thread but i,ll still ask
no.....no....


The 8.1 ECM has never had CAN. Duramax's have always had CAN. Yes, even 2001-2005. WHY can everyone not get this through their head. They just changed from J1939 (which is CAN!) to GMLAN (which is also CAN!) in 2006. All this talk of "can bus this" and "can bus that"...when no one even knows what they are talking about. Theres probably a dozen different variations of CAN. Different speeds, different message structure, etc. Everyone just thinks "oh there are two computers talking to eachother, MUST BE 'CANBUS'". And another pet peeve of mine, technically, the data bus is just called CAN, not CAN BUS. Controller Area Network....yeah its a type of dataBUS, but the name for it isnt "CAN bus". Just like my name is BEN...not "BEN HUMAN".... and you call your truck a "chevy silverado" and not a "chevy silverado truck".... but thats semantics, whatever.

Because the 8.1 ECM never supported CAN, GM used 3 discrete torque signal wires (basically just a square wave PWM signal) between the 8.1 ECM and Allison TCM to communicate throttle %, delivered torque, and requested torque for defuel. Because to add CAN controller chips to the 8.1 LS1-b ECM was more expensive than just telling a couple of the general purpose I/O's to read and produce some PWM signals.

2001-2007 8.1 ECM's are all configured the same way...GM made a special calibration for the 06-07 4th gen TCM that used those PWM signal wires, so they wouldnt have to redesign the 8.1 ECM to support GMLAN when the 8.1 was only going to be around for 2 more years anyway.

Its a pain to convert an 01-02 truck to a 6-speed, just because the instrument cluster design is different. You cant just stick an 03-07 cluster in an 01-02 truck. But you can stick an 06-07 cluster in an 03-05 truck. OH BUT WAIT I thought 06+ was "CAN BUS!!?". No...again....no. GMT-800 body was never CAN or GMLAN. Not in 1999, not in 2003, not in 2004, not in 2007. The whole body is Class 2 data bus only. The only "CAN" in an 01-05 Duramax is between ECM and TCM and FICM (and GPCM in LLY)...and the only CAN in an 06-07 Duramax is ECM and TCM and GPCM. The difference is that the 06-07 ECM and TCM did not interface with scan tools via Class 2 like the earlier trucks...they used GMLAN. Thats the only difference. The 06-07 ECM's still talk to the rest of the body with Class 2...its just when you plug your scan tool in to read data and/or reflash, its over GMLAN (CAN) instead of Class 2.

And 99-02 GMT-800's had Class 2...yes...they did. The difference was it wasnt fully integrated. Doors, windows, radio, HVAC, amplifier, lighting, etc was wired the old school way. 03+ the entire electrical system became multiplexed and everything switched over to being controlled by Class 2. The only modules that used Class 2 in 99-02 was the cluster, BCM, transfer case computer, and airbag module. So YES if you wanted to get fancy, you could repin the connector on an 01-02 cluster connector and plug in an 03-07 cluster. But oil pressure gauge wouldnt work unless you used an 03+ operating system in the ECM.

Didnt I already write a novel explaining this a year or so ago? Sometimes I dont even know why I bother.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

no.....no....


The 8.1 ECM has never had CAN. Duramax's have always had CAN. Yes, even 2001-2005. WHY can everyone not get this through their head. They just changed from J1939 (which is CAN!) to GMLAN (which is also CAN!) in 2006. All this talk of "can bus this" and "can bus that"...when no one even knows what they are talking about. Theres probably a dozen different variations of CAN. Different speeds, different message structure, etc. Everyone just thinks "oh there are two computers talking to eachother, MUST BE 'CANBUS'". And another pet peeve of mine, technically, the data bus is just called CAN, not CAN BUS. Controller Area Network....yeah its a type of dataBUS, but the name for it isnt "CAN bus". Just like my name is BEN...not "BEN HUMAN".... and you call your truck a "chevy silverado" and not a "chevy silverado truck".... but thats semantics, whatever.

Because the 8.1 ECM never supported CAN, GM used 3 discrete torque signal wires (basically just a square wave PWM signal) between the 8.1 ECM and Allison TCM to communicate throttle %, delivered torque, and requested torque for defuel. Because to add CAN controller chips to the 8.1 LS1-b ECM was more expensive than just telling a couple of the general purpose I/O's to read and produce some PWM signals.

2001-2007 8.1 ECM's are all configured the same way...GM made a special calibration for the 06-07 4th gen TCM that used those PWM signal wires, so they wouldnt have to redesign the 8.1 ECM to support GMLAN when the 8.1 was only going to be around for 2 more years anyway.

Its a pain to convert an 01-02 truck to a 6-speed, just because the instrument cluster design is different. You cant just stick an 03-07 cluster in an 01-02 truck. But you can stick an 06-07 cluster in an 03-05 truck. OH BUT WAIT I thought 06+ was "CAN BUS!!?". No...again....no. GMT-800 body was never CAN or GMLAN. Not in 1999, not in 2003, not in 2004, not in 2007. The whole body is Class 2 data bus only. The only "CAN" in an 01-05 Duramax is between ECM and TCM and FICM (and GPCM in LLY)...and the only CAN in an 06-07 Duramax is ECM and TCM and GPCM. The difference is that the 06-07 ECM and TCM did not interface with scan tools via Class 2 like the earlier trucks...they used GMLAN. Thats the only difference. The 06-07 ECM's still talk to the rest of the body with Class 2...its just when you plug your scan tool in to read data and/or reflash, its over GMLAN (CAN) instead of Class 2.

And 99-02 GMT-800's had Class 2...yes...they did. The difference was it wasnt fully integrated. Doors, windows, radio, HVAC, amplifier, lighting, etc was wired the old school way. 03+ the entire electrical system became multiplexed and everything switched over to being controlled by Class 2. The only modules that used Class 2 in 99-02 was the cluster, BCM, transfer case computer, and airbag module. So YES if you wanted to get fancy, you could repin the connector on an 01-02 cluster connector and plug in an 03-07 cluster. But oil pressure gauge wouldnt work unless you used an 03+ operating system in the ECM.

Didnt I already write a novel explaining this a year or so ago? Sometimes I dont even know why I bother.

Can I get a signed copy of that novel ??

BTW I need your help and soldering skills for a few projects, hit me up PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

[Kenneth Atkinson]

DTTM i discussed what you wrote with my buddy he said we can do this i have access to tis 2web and the gauge cluster
1. is there a mechanical change?
2. in your former write up do you have the pin location changes
3 do you find reformatting the ecm a problem

back on it

[THEFERMANATOR]

I know J1939 is a form of can bus, but MOST think of CAN as the 06+ trucks, so that is how I refer to them. I know what J1939 is as it is very similiar to what is used in marine applications like smartcraft and such. And he doesn't HAVE to have the cluster to make it work, does he? I know the gear display will not be correct, but for a bare bones swap it could be done and made to work. As for the SUNCOAST kit, would it even recognize the 8.1L's inputs? I asked them about it before, and they said it only worked for the DURAMAX due to the data com issues. I don't know this for certain, only what they told me there years back. There may be a flash out there that would enable 6th gear with a modified 04-05 valve body and some other wiring changes, but I have no first hand experience with it other than reading others saying they have converted there duramax's using it(and I'm not talking about the SUNCOAST kit).

[sdwolff98]

Well Fermanator,
I finally tracked down all the aprts and re resistored the tap shift switch in the gmc terrain console to match the allison tap shift values still working towards the point of hooking it all up for a test. Nicely enough the terrain tap shifter uses a similar circuit board layout to the truck tap shifter so that helped alot.

Sean Wolff