LC1 Hooked up First Log for AUTO VE

[Kurtomac]

Heres my first log going to do AutoVE....didnt hit that many cells I guess I need to drive some more....Does everything look good? I made the change to my VE table not going to make any more changes until I see what you guys think....Not sure how to tell if my LC1 data is valid or not...using the brown analog out with orange connecter to my scanner did the free air calibration before i installed it into my exhaust
pretty rich from my view...Initially i took 10% out of the stock VE table 400-1200rpm to help the cam idle...added the recommended 15% in the rest of the table per the autoVE...Car doesnt like to idle without the maf....before I started this process i had some issues with LTrims being +20% but I did make a lot of changes to the car and obviously tuning was needed
Mods
2002Z06
TFS heads 11:1CR
236 238 601 605 113+2 comp cam
Ported LS2 tbody and Ported FAST 92mm intake
LG Pro LT's w/offroad Xpipe
GHL catback
Pulley
Vararam Intake
thats about it
Everyones thoughts.........

[Kurtomac]

nobody? come on guys I'd like to get going with this tomorrow....btw guys how are you guys getting all these cell counts what type of driving are you doing...im going to go deaf if i keep gettin on it to hit some higher RPM cells with a filter set to 50 per cell (ie doesnt count unless i hit that cell 50 times).....

[mr.prick]

you appear to be running fairly rich.
50 cells are actually pretty high. IMO
try getting a 50 cell count at WOT. :w00t:
also select more PIDs. (24 channels)

[Kurtomac]

yea thats what i was thinking....it says to hide cells with a count of less than 50....should i maybe do 10 counts?...what other PIDs should i select...i selected the PIDs per the autove tutorial

[Kurtomac]

what should my AFR be say before i start the car in the morning...let the sensor fully warm up...im showing 20.09....just trying to make sure my data Im logging is valid
thanks

[Kurtomac]

here

[roy]

Kurt
I noticed a vin mismatch between your log file and your tun file when I had both open at the same time. At least that is what EFI says.

ALso what helped me when I did my Auto Ve tuning was a second person to hold the computer and talk to me to get the load and throttle just right to fill the cells .

I also broke my VE table into roughly 2000 rpm segments and worked that segment until I had the cell count I needed and then I would copy and flash the PCM. Repeat as necessary and then move onto the next 2000 rpm segment and work that.
When done my VE table needed only minor smoothing.
It looks like your on the right track just need to keep at it and work your cell count.

For what its worth I spent roughly 250 dollars of gas and 4 hours of highway road time to work in my VE table to where it needed to be.

[Kurtomac]

thanks for the tip Roy...i had to change my OS to a newer 2002 z06 OS due to my stocker not being able to log IAC...GM went to a different one in 2002 and now am able to log IAC's....and Roy....how many cell counts did you need for you to consider it valid data and worth the change in ve value

[roy]

I went for min 50 counts per cell on the VE table .
Depending on where you live that may be hard or easy to do. For me in my location it was easy to hop on the Abahn and do my Auto Ve on a Saturday morning with little to no traffic.

[Kurtomac]

OK think I have the VE table Pretty close...Got a real good log the other day had someone riding with me so that helped a bunch and I think my car was hating me for all the 40-100 runs i did....heres LOG 6 and TUN7 is after I made changes from the log6...after I did these changes....I Selected all cells in the 400-1200 rpm range in my VE table then hit f12 (smooth) twice then selected 1600-4400 and did the same then 4800-6800 and did the same...dont know if this is better than selecting all cells and smoothing but I didnt want the 1600 and up cells influencing the 400-1200 cells a lot since it require much more fuel in that range and when I would smooth I think it would have put too much fuel in the 400-1200 area and leaned out the 1600-2400 area
Current Issues made a couple changes to throttle cracker and the airflow table.....sometimes my car will come down to idle nicely...other times it hangs at around 1200rpms....and more times than not it will go down to like 200rpms and surge for a second then die....this happens much more around town.....highway seems the best for the car in that perspect...another thing....I cant even think about running with the air on unless im going down the highway...as soon as i push in the clutch...boom rpms fall and dies....FYI still in OLSD for my VE tuning....car starts much better than it did CL and with the MAF...starting isnt even really an issue in OLSD...just coming off the gas clutch in car dying...driving me crazy trying to brake left footed and keep it going with my right foot....and no air conditioning is driving me nuts as well...TIPS PLEASE and please check out my LOG and current VE table I think its looking pretty good
thanks
Kurt

[TFZ_Z06]

OK think I have the VE table Pretty close...Got a real good log the other day had someone riding with me so that helped a bunch and I think my car was hating me for all the 40-100 runs i did....heres LOG 6 and TUN7 is after I made changes from the log6...after I did these changes....I Selected all cells in the 400-1200 rpm range in my VE table then hit f12 (smooth) twice then selected 1600-4400 and did the same then 4800-6800 and did the same...dont know if this is better than selecting all cells and smoothing but I didnt want the 1600 and up cells influencing the 400-1200 cells a lot since it require much more fuel in that range and when I would smooth I think it would have put too much fuel in the 400-1200 area and leaned out the 1600-2400 area
Current Issues made a couple changes to throttle cracker and the airflow table.....sometimes my car will come down to idle nicely...other times it hangs at around 1200rpms....and more times than not it will go down to like 200rpms and surge for a second then die....this happens much more around town.....highway seems the best for the car in that perspect...another thing....I cant even think about running with the air on unless im going down the highway...as soon as i push in the clutch...boom rpms fall and dies....FYI still in OLSD for my VE tuning....car starts much better than it did CL and with the MAF...starting isnt even really an issue in OLSD...just coming off the gas clutch in car dying...driving me crazy trying to brake left footed and keep it going with my right foot....and no air conditioning is driving me nuts as well...TIPS PLEASE and please check out my LOG and current VE table I think its looking pretty good
thanks
Kurt

I forsee a Road Runner in your future. :grin:

If you look at the VE table at 400RPM and close to 65kpa, where you idle, you will find an increase, not decrease as expected in the table. I would wonder if this might affect idle somewhat. After this, consider logging IDLE RAF data and adjust.

I would leave my PE's at stock settings while tuning VE. This way if you hit WOT, you won't see possible lean data. IMO, your 13.2 A/F at 6800 is a little on the edge.

One thing I did was wrote a calc pid for this. I'll post if useful.
Syntax might be wrong here as I use serial wb, but I used my own BEN factor called WB_VE_ADJ to help w/VE. This does however remove the PE safety net at low RPM, but gives it back to you on top end. Generally speaking, I like this method because the high load/rpm VE points need addressing anyway. At low rpm/load, this guarantees no PE interference yet allows enrichment at high rpm/load.

iff ( {SAE.RPM} < 4400 && {SAE.MAP} < 90, {CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/14.68, {CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/GM.AFR )

Will look at it more later. Your LOW MAF FAILURE point should be at 12000 or more right? yours is 1300. I wonder if this matters.

[Kurtomac]

Got my Serial cable in the mail for my WB...so I'll get that going tomorrow...as far as afr's go...i just followed the tutorial...the 13.2...should have gotten richened up a hair with the logged data i received....this was the first time I really got on the car since the HCI swap....feels pretty stout...Im pretty sure I spun the drag radials on the 2-3 shift on the last sprint I made...
after I get done with the VE tuning I plan on doing the RAFIG process


I forsee a Road Runner in your future. :grin:

If you look at the VE table at 400RPM and close to 65kpa, where you idle, you will find an increase, not decrease as expected in the table. I would wonder if this might affect idle somewhat. After this, consider logging IDLE RAF data and adjust.

I would leave my PE's at stock settings while tuning VE. This way if you hit WOT, you won't see possible lean data. IMO, your 13.2 A/F at 6800 is a little on the edge.

One thing I did was wrote a calc pid for this. I'll post if useful.
Syntax might be wrong here as I use serial wb, but I used my own BEN factor called WB_VE_ADJ to help w/VE. This does however remove the PE safety net at low RPM, but gives it back to you on top end. Generally speaking, I like this method because the high load/rpm VE points need addressing anyway. At low rpm/load, this guarantees no PE interference yet allows enrichment at high rpm/load.

iff ( {SAE.RPM} < 4400 && {SAE.MAP} < 90, {CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/14.68, {CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/GM.AFR )

Will look at it more later. Your LOW MAF FAILURE point should be at 12000 or more right? yours is 1300. I wonder if this matters.

[TFZ_Z06]

Got my Serial cable in the mail for my WB...so I'll get that going tomorrow...as far as afr's go...i just followed the tutorial...the 13.2...should have gotten richened up a hair with the logged data i received....this was the first time I really got on the car since the HCI swap....feels pretty stout...Im pretty sure I spun the drag radials on the 2-3 shift on the last sprint I made...
after I get done with the VE tuning I plan on doing the RAFIG process

Congrats on the power. Sounds like its starting to put down a lot of it.

I tell you the truth, if my engine was ever perfectly tuned, I would have to find another life, as the one I have is tuning this car. After reading your post, I'm going out tonight and play w/the VE a little more...

[Kurtomac]

Congrats on the power. Sounds like its starting to put down a lot of it.

I tell you the truth, if my engine was ever perfectly tuned, I would have to find another life, as the one I have is tuning this car. After reading your post, I'm going out tonight and play w/the VE a little more...

while doing this tuning Im shifting like a girl in general...figure i was almost done for the day lets bang a 2-3....As I pushed the Spongy Rod of Mush (stock C6Z shifter) from the 2 gate to the 3....and that Clamping force from hell under my floorboard (stock clutch) bit the flywheel....yes I think I spun my 21psi Nittos hitting 3rd or at least thats what it looks like in the log haha for my story... This car is much different that my old HCI WS6 I could stay in the gas 100% and between shifts and just powershift it...I think the Hurst shifter, McLeod Master and Spec 3 clutch helped though
As for power I just want to see the green side of 470rwhp...Once I get this VE table a little closer Im going to do the MAF then RAFIG and then hit the dyno to clean up the WOT AFR and Timing some

[Kurtomac]

can you guys post a couple of your VE tables to see what a finished product looks like...seems like i had it close then it went a little rich today..especially idling....whatever my afr reads at idle being i have a fairly large cam...is actual richer or leaner than what im showing due to overlap? I heard large cams like idling on the lean side....logged my NB O2s just to make sure my lc1 is reading correctly...car smells richer now at idle...WTF...should I let it idle and completely try and tune the 400-1200 table like that? then when i do my logging just make changes to 1600 and above and then maybe smooth the 1200 and 1600 cells together....maybe im getting off track and confusing myself

[Kurtomac]

my car idles at 60-65 kpa...should i make the 65kpa column in my commanded when in OL stoich as it is in the 60kpa column?...or when i lean my idle out maybe itll pull less vacuum?

[TFZ_Z06]

my car idles at 60-65 kpa...should i make the 65kpa column in my commanded when in OL stoich as it is in the 60kpa column?...or when i lean my idle out maybe itll pull less vacuum?

Hey, thats an idea I haven't tried yet. BTW, isn't stock around 50?? 55?kpa
I was looking at the table, thats a 0.4 A/F ratio, enough worth changing to me. I'm going to copy and move the whole table over a few columns myself as a test.

Regarding above and VE. Note, that depending on where each of us has set the fuel injector flow values, the VE tables will vary alot. This got me thinking.

What if:
We concentrated on just the point of idle in the VE table, such as 65kpa and 800rpm or that small block of data. Keep adjusting the fuel inj values across the span until stoich is achieved, then proportionally adjust the rest of the table. This would be a better starting point. My thought process is this would give a closer starting point and I wonder if this would fall in line better w/the rest of the pcm tuning.

[Kurtomac]

Hey, thats an idea I haven't tried yet. BTW, isn't stock around 50?? 55?kpa
I was looking at the table, thats a 0.4 A/F ratio, enough worth changing to me. I'm going to copy and move the whole table over a few columns myself as a test.

Regarding above and VE. Note, that depending on where each of us has set the fuel injector flow values, the VE tables will vary alot. This got me thinking.

What if:
We concentrated on just the point of idle in the VE table, such as 65kpa and 800rpm or that small block of data. Keep adjusting the fuel inj values across the span until stoich is achieved, then proportionally adjust the rest of the table. This would be a better starting point. My thought process is this would give a closer starting point and I wonder if this would fall in line better w/the rest of the pcm tuning.

thats what I was thinking...wish my car would idle at 800...that way it wouldnt have to use the 800 and 1200 row for fueling cuz when i pull away from a light doing the autove its gonna add fuel in the 1200 row thus causing my rich idle....so i wish the ve table was broken down to 100 or even 200 rpm increments for idles sake....spark table is a little nicer...we have a 800 and 1000 rpm row...you can just make them match so spark doesnt jump around a lot