My log & tune @ track 12.06

[Ls1_Rulz]

check out my tune and my 3 runs log file

i think it's a little rich at WOT ?? what do think ?

anyone can give me suggestions about tune ...

best time 12.06 1/4 118MPH

[Ls1_Rulz]

anyone !!! i know alot of pro tuner here !!!

[TFZ_Z06]

Ok, a very basic review of your log and tune file indicates your spark data is set very aggressive, as indicated in log results from KR. Your A/F, in my opinion, is commanded too rich low end in the PE VS RPM. I have no issues with 12.9:1 in PE table, but thats not what you are seeing real time. More like close to 14:1

SPARK:
1. KR is too high. Setup a MAP of
DATA=KNOCK RETARD
X = DYNCYLAIR_DMA (Air Flow gm/cyl-speed density)
Y = RPM

There were a few points where you had as much as 13 deg of spark :shock: taken out. Reduce the spark and smooth or add race gas. Even if you add race gas, the power still might not be there.

2. A/F at WOT is TOO LEAN all the way up from idle. Setup a MAP of
DATA=AFR_LC11
X=MAP
Y=RPM

At max torque point you were almost 15:1 A/F. Review the map in the
95-100kpa range and all RPMs

In my opinion, you should consider lowering the spark to stock, then do a VE tune first. If your injectors were changed, which I don't think they were from looking at your data, adj those first.

If you don't know how to make the maps, play w/the software until you do.

BTW, are you running a stock cam? Nevermind, I see your KPA is 60 at idle.

[rally1]

It looks lean for my liking (showing 13.4:1 average)and you need to carry out an auto VE as you commanded fuel and actual fuel are a way off.

Look into lowering your intake air temps before your run as they a very high, possibly causing the missing timing as your spark map has 28 and you are only getting 25, log your EST spark pids to find out.

You could speed up your KR decay rate to help get back to normal timing after knock retard and not effect the whole run.

[Kurtomac]

yea your commanded vs actual isnt even close....youre saying youre rich at WOT...not really but you are commanding even richer....and whats the deal with your IAT temps being in the 150s....you live in the desert?

[Kurtomac]

and you were gettin KR the whole time during your burnout in the 3rd log you posted

[joecar]

I agree... you need to dial in the VE table... one of the reasons is that this will make DYNCYLAIR_DMA reflect the true actual cylinder airmass which will allow you to precisely adjust your spark table (since DYNCYLAIR_DMA indexes into B5913/B5914)... DYNCYLAIR_DMA shows about 0.76g (actually, less) which is what a stock LS1 shows, you obviously have mods, you probably should show about 0.80g... VE table needs to be dialed in...

The other reason is that your CFOL/PE AFR's will show up on the wideband... what you set is what you get.

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

[Ls1_Rulz]

ooooooh thankx

great info thanx again >>

about this :

You could speed up your KR decay rate to help get back to normal timing after knock retard and not effect the whole run.

what table to deal with .

[SSpdDmon]

ooooooh thankx

great info thanx again >>

about this :

You could speed up your KR decay rate to help get back to normal timing after knock retard and not effect the whole run.

what table to deal with .
Knock Retard Recovery Rate - I usually set it somewhere between .05 and .10. Better troubleshoot the actual problem though as this is just a 'band-aid' so to speak.

[rally1]

I agree make sure you address the issue of knock first and your VE table is a must do!!

I normally set KR decay a lot higher lower in the revs so if there is a little tip in detonation (coming off lean cruise with high timing to match) it decays fast so it does not effect the rest of the run.

[Ls1_Rulz]

Knock Retard Recovery Rate - I usually set it somewhere between .05 and .10. Better troubleshoot the actual problem though as this is just a 'band-aid' so to speak.

ok sorry about this question ( i'm still new )

but


what should i do first ?? now i think i'll start from stock tune 1998 camaro
this what i'll do step by step

(autoVe) next > (find and adj. the best timing) next > (RAFNG process)

anything else ?

[joecar]

Remind us of your mods...

What injectors do you have...?

[Ls1_Rulz]

Remind us of your mods...

What injectors do you have...?

camaro 1998 a4

lid - lt's - ORY - catback - ls6 intak - U/D pulley
3500 T/C - stock 3.23
228 / 232 cam 110+ 4 LSA
stock 98' head - stock TB - stock MAF - stock injectors
:shock:

[joecar]

With LT's, intake, and cam, your DYNCYLAIR_DMA should be a little higher than the stock 0.76g... it should be about 0.78g-0.80g...

[Ls1_Rulz]

With LT's, intake, and cam, your DYNCYLAIR_DMA should be a little higher than the stock 0.76g... it should be about 0.78g-0.80g...

what should i do to hit the .78g -.80 ???

[SSpdDmon]

what should i do to hit the .78g -.80 ???
Well, I took a quick look at the tune and here's what I saw. You had modified the VE slightly...but the MAF was still active (and untouched). Combine this with the stock injector table and you're sure to run lean. I made some minor adjustments for you to get you through until you can get a WBO2 and tune the car right. When you are ready to do that, you'll have to put the injector table back. Also, the timing table was NOT pretty. Don't go hog wild with the smoothing function. It can hurt you very easily.

[ssvolvo]

Ok Rulz,

Gotta listen to these guys. They know what they're talking about.
It's taken me a year and a half to get comfortable with the software. Lots of hours logging, smoothing. Stick with it you're gonna love it.

My oh my dude, 11 second burnouts? I noticed you don't ever spin leaving the line. Forget the burnouts unless you are having trouble leaving. You'll be saving on the tires so you can purchase a set of CNC'd heads! Really, that thing will be a rocket. If you insist on the burnouts at least post one up on utube so we can see it!:cucumber:WooHoo

[joecar]

what should i do to hit the .78g -.80 ???Dial in the VE table using a wideband... this will get you fueling a "known" AFR and will help resolve knock issues.

:cheers:

[Ls1_Rulz]

Well, I took a quick look at the tune and here's what I saw. You had modified the VE slightly...but the MAF was still active (and untouched). Combine this with the stock injector table and you're sure to run lean. I made some minor adjustments for you to get you through until you can get a WBO2 and tune the car right. When you are ready to do that, you'll have to put the injector table back. Also, the timing table was NOT pretty. Don't go hog wild with the smoothing function. It can hurt you very easily.

hi sspddmon

what I understand from you first doing the autoVE after that return the injector table to stock ??

is that right ?

[Ls1_Rulz]

Ok Rulz,

Gotta listen to these guys. They know what they're talking about.
It's taken me a year and a half to get comfortable with the software. Lots of hours logging, smoothing. Stick with it you're gonna love it.

My oh my dude, 11 second burnouts? I noticed you don't ever spin leaving the line. Forget the burnouts unless you are having trouble leaving. You'll be saving on the tires so you can purchase a set of CNC'd heads! Really, that thing will be a rocket. If you insist on the burnouts at least post one up on utube so we can see it!:cucumber:WooHoo

:shock: 11s burnouts

:cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1bs_glLHs

[ssvolvo]

Rulz,

Start here at the begining, here:http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7866

If you are running stock injectors leave the IFR table alone.

Also when logging for your VE table: Wait until your wideband is warmed up and your LC1 is showing A/F ratio before you start logging. You don't want to see that 7.35 A/F at the begining of your logs.

Nice video

[joecar]

You may want to sanity check your IFR table... ;)

[SSpdDmon]

hi sspddmon

what I understand from you first doing the autoVE after that return the injector table to stock ??

is that right ?

The file I posted earlier was just a temp one for you to use that's safter until you get a WBO2 and can tune the car. When you're ready to start tuning, use your tune (that's currently in the car) and follow the AutoVE process.


:shock: 11s burnouts

:cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1bs_glLHs

Next time, you should kill it at what appeared to be the 15~16 second mark in the video above. When the tire smoke starts to darken (like it does just before the camera switches to the other vehicle) - that's bad. ;)

[Ls1_Rulz]

thanx guys for this info
my qustion now about injector is there any process to make IFR table correctly ?

[SSpdDmon]

thanx guys for this info
my qustion now about injector is there any process to make IFR table correctly ?
Didn't you say they were stock 28lbers? If so, the tune that was in the car already had the stock injector values in it.

Tip - If you want to see what's different between two files, open a .tun file (the one you will make changes to) in the software. Then, open a comparison file by clicking on the folder with the red arrows over it (top left). Once the comparison tune is loaded, click the red arrows just to the right of the icon you just clicked. That will display a list of all of the tables that are different. You can double click on an item in the list to open that table. At the top, there are two icons with a little green/yellow/red map that say CAL and ALT. The CAL is the current tune and the ALT is the comparison. You can copy the ALT and paste in the CAL to return a table back to stock (assuming the stock file is loaded as the comparison). Another way to change a table equal to the ALT/comparison is in the list of differences. Select one or more items in the list and hit the Update button (on the bottom right).

[Ls1_Rulz]

Didn't you say they were stock 28lbers? If so, the tune that was in the car already had the stock injector values in it.

Tip - If you want to see what's different between two files, open a .tun file (the one you will make changes to) in the software. Then, open a comparison file by clicking on the folder with the red arrows over it (top left). Once the comparison tune is loaded, click the red arrows just to the right of the icon you just clicked. That will display a list of all of the tables that are different. You can double click on an item in the list to open that table. At the top, there are two icons with a little green/yellow/red map that say CAL and ALT. The CAL is the current tune and the ALT is the comparison. You can copy the ALT and paste in the CAL to return a table back to stock (assuming the stock file is loaded as the comparison). Another way to change a table equal to the ALT/comparison is in the list of differences. Select one or more items in the list and hit the Update button (on the bottom right).


hi guys

before 1 hour i start to do the AutoVe process but i get alot of KR and bad idle

give me any suggestions ?

this my log and last tune files.

[Ls1_Rulz]

and the DYNCYLAIR_DMA show only .00 g ?

[Ls1_Rulz]

anyone !!!!

[joecar]

It may be that when your OS is in SD that DYNCYLAIR_DMA is not updated... try DYNCYLAIR (no _DMA)... I am not too familiar with 97/98.

Observations/comments:

- at zero mph, your MAP is surging up/down... in some places it goes upto about 96 kPa... I don't think your cam is doing this, you may want to check for intake air leaks.

- at low load/rpm/speed you get knock... I'm not sure it is "real" knock, can you hear it...? Are your headers banging, or is something loose or worn mounts...?

- the repeated sawtooth knock pattern is an indication of real knock, this is happening below 2000 rpm and at mid/low throttle (probably in higher gear)... this is lugging type knock, may mean you have carbon deposits and your temp is a bit high 210F, I don't know the condition of your motor, try some top engine cleaner (in the manifold, not the oil), and check the air filter (and probably replace the fuel filter)... could also play with timing (up or down) to see if it makes any difference.

- at load your timing seems a bit high (but 97/98 supposedly can run with more timing), try backing down a few degrees and see if it stops knocking when under load.

- try bringing AFR downto 12.6 vs 12.96 and see if it still knocks under load.

- I see you can seriously spin tires at 50 mph...the "vibration" from this may be triggering some of that knock.

Remind us of your mods (you can place them in your sig).

[joecar]

Also, set your LC-1 to do 1/3 or 1/6 sampling (via the LM Programmer software).

[Ls1_Rulz]

It may be that when your OS is in SD that DYNCYLAIR_DMA is not updated... try DYNCYLAIR (no _DMA)... I am not too familiar with 97/98.
can i update my 1998 OS to COS or to 99+ OS
Observations/comments:

- at zero mph, your MAP is surging up/down... in some places it goes upto about 96 kPa... I don't think your cam is doing this, you may want to check for intake air leaks.
i'll check the intake

- at low load/rpm/speed you get knock... I'm not sure it is "real" knock, can you hear it...? Are your headers banging, or is something loose or worn mounts...?
i hear about Knock sensor for 98 it's bad alot of ppl tell me change to 99+
- the repeated sawtooth knock pattern is an indication of real knock, this is happening below 2000 rpm and at mid/low throttle (probably in higher gear)... this is lugging type knock, may mean you have carbon deposits and your temp is a bit high 210F, I don't know the condition of your motor, try some top engine cleaner (in the manifold, not the oil), and check the air filter (and probably replace the fuel filter)... could also play with timing (up or down) to see if it makes any difference.

- at load your timing seems a bit high (but 97/98 supposedly can run with more timing), try backing down a few degrees and see if it stops knocking when under load.

- try bringing AFR downto 12.6 vs 12.96 and see if it still knocks under load.
i'll try it >> (do you mean change the B3605 )
- I see you can seriously spin tires at 50 mph...the "vibration" from this may be triggering some of that knock.
Yes, it's spin
Remind us of your mods (you can place them in your sig).

the now at my sig

[joecar]

You can update from 98 to 02, but you will require:
- repinning the PCM connectors,
- copying your tables to an 02 OS (e.g. 12212156),
- changing the fuel segment in the tune.

There might be something else to be done, if you search the forum you will find some stuff:
97/98 PCM -> 411 PCM conversion:
showthread.php?t=7992 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7992)
showthread.php?t=9195 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=9195)

Yes, I have seen a tech bulletin about the knock sensors and the subharness.

Yes, B3605, make the last few columns richer.

Spin... :cheers: ...when doing AutoVE, try to avoid spin, and try to operate the throttle smoothly as this gives you better log data (the BEN map filter won't throw out as much).

[ssvolvo]

One thing I noticed in the logs is that SAE.TP varies wildly. So much that almost looks like the TPS is bad or a bad ground? Maybe lots of "jazzing" of the throttle.

Logs should be MUCH smoother.

[SSpdDmon]

Try starting from this one...

Just a note - B4205 turns off the STFT's. You should leave B4108 alone.

[Ls1_Rulz]

thanx guys for all help and info

SSpdDmon i'll try start with the file and give you the result .


thanx

[Ls1_Rulz]

Try starting from this one...

Just a note - B4205 turns off the STFT's. You should leave B4108 alone.

:cheers: hi SSpdDmon this is great file to start with it ,,
I try it and it's amazing file .
now everythings is great ,, just i have problem when the car
1- above 200F i get some KR i don't know it's real KR or false .
2- when the converter lockup i get KR see the Frame 7400




this my last log file.

[SSpdDmon]

:cheers: hi SSpdDmon this is great file to start with it ,,
I try it and it's amazing file .
now everythings is great ,, just i have problem when the car
1- above 200F i get some KR i don't know it's real KR or false .
2- when the converter lockup i get KR see the Frame 7400




this my last log file.

Glad we got you going in the right direction... :D

Can't see the log right now. I'll try to remember to take a peak later this weekend. In the mean time, try pulling a little more timing in the regions you're seeing KR. If it doesn't change anything, it may be false.

[Ls1_Rulz]

and this my last tune file

[SSpdDmon]

and this my last tune file

manual smoothing :D

[Ls1_Rulz]

manual smoothing :D


ok .. what about the KR when the converter lockup ?? :confused:

the timing at this point only 16*

[SSpdDmon]

ok .. what about the KR when the converter lockup ?? :confused:

the timing at this point only 16*
The converter shouldn't be locked up...you'll have to adjust your apply/release tables.

When you're giving it >30% throttle at 1300~1600 rpm and the converter is still locked up, you're going to put a lot of load on your motor. With an aftermarket camshaft that doesn't have the low-end grunt the stocker had, it's just too much sometimes. That's why you're seeing KR IMO. What you need to do is command the converter to unlock in those low rpm, high load situations. I posted an Excel worksheet somewhere on here a while back to help visualize the shifts along with the lockup. Try using that... :D

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=5876

[Ls1_Rulz]

helllooo

My car now not the same car before :hihi: i love it

can you give me more help this my last log

( i get alot of KR only when the engine above 200F :confused:

and this my last log file with last tune file you post
take a look to the file

[SSpdDmon]

For the most part, things look good. AFR wise, keep playing with the VE. You're AFR's are pretty close. But, they could be a little closer.

With regards to the KR, I think there's a couple things going on. One, like I mentioned before, the torque converter being locked at low RPM's is going to generate some KR with your cam. If you haven't adjusted that, you should. Two, you say higher ECT's. I think it's higher IAT's (they kind of go hand in hand). You may need to do an IAT relocation if your IAT is getting heat-soaked. Ideally, when you're cruising around, your IAT's should be within 5 degrees or so of ambient temps. When your IAT's read 104* on a 72* day, that'll create some issue. And three, if those two solutions don't help enough, then you may need to pull more timing out of the high/low octane tables. REMEMBER, the car runs off of the low octane timing table in SD. ;)