ls-2 knock sensors with ls1 computer?

[koolrayz]

It appears the first ls-2 blocks will be finding there way into ls-1 cars in the near future. One of the hurdles is that the knock sensors are in a different position and run at a different frequency. While some are looking at moving the sensors to the ls1 position it would seem to me the ideal answer is to hack the ls1 computer so that it will read the ls2 sensors. Any chance EFI will be looking at any custom programing of this nature.

[GMPX]

If you get a workshop level license with Flashscan you can alter the knock sensor filters, so if you knew the LS2 knock sensor characteristics you could always copy them into the LS1/6 tables.

[Drake]

What else will the "workshop level license" allow you to do that you can't do with the regular version?

[GMPX]

What else will the "workshop level license" allow you to do that you can't do with the regular version?

Electronic Throttle Control, Crusie Control....others to follow.

Cheers,
Ross

[emarkay]

What about BCM and EDR data?

[GMPX]

What about BCM and EDR data?

Sorry, I am not too familiar with the BCM's used in the US vehicles, but generally they aren't field reprogrammable. If you go to the GM Cal ID web site and enter in a Camaro VIN the only module that shows up as being programmable is the PCM.

Cheers,
Ross

[bink]

What else will the "workshop level license" allow you to do that you can't do with the regular version?

Electronic Throttle Control, Crusie Control....others to follow.

Cheers,
Ross

Hi Ross. What type of changes can be made to ETC???

Cheers,
joel

[GMPX]

What else will the "workshop level license" allow you to do that you can't do with the regular version?

Electronic Throttle Control, Crusie Control....others to follow.

Cheers,
Ross

Hi Ross. What type of changes can be made to ETC???

Cheers,
joel

Basically pedal response, pedal feel, eg, 40% rotation at the foot means ??% at the engine.
Here's an example, on a 2004 Z06 Vette, with 75% pedal rotation (your foot) the ETC is only opening the blade about 50%.

Cheers,
Ross

[bink]

What else will the "workshop level license" allow you to do that you can't do with the regular version?

Electronic Throttle Control, Crusie Control....others to follow.

Cheers,
Ross

Hi Ross. What type of changes can be made to ETC???

Cheers,
joel

Basically pedal response, pedal feel, eg, 40% rotation at the foot means ??% at the engine.
Here's an example, on a 2004 Z06 Vette, with 75% pedal rotation (your foot) the ETC is only opening the blade about 50%.

Cheers,
Ross

OK!! I half wondered why my 50% ,by feel, throttle never showed 50% when I scanned it!! Thanks for the response. :D

joel

[mistermike]

If you get a workshop level license with Flashscan you can alter the knock sensor filters, so if you knew the LS2 knock sensor characteristics you could always copy them into the LS1/6 tables.
I have a nagging false knock problem. Does this mean I won't be able to fix it with the standard version? HP and Edit users have had good results in this area.

[jfpilla]

If you get a workshop level license with Flashscan you can alter the knock sensor filters, so if you knew the LS2 knock sensor characteristics you could always copy them into the LS1/6 tables.
I have a nagging false knock problem. Does this mean I won't be able to fix it with the standard version? HP and Edit users have had good results in this area.

I'll take a guess. Edit will let you turn off the knock sensors(not a guess). It sounds like the WS Level will let you change sensitivity(guess).

[Drake]

Why wouldn't you allow users to edit knock sensativity? Certainly, there's an engine safety issue to be considered, but I'm a big fan of "all access" so long as there's plenty of warning (just like I like the idea of allowing users "take the risk" and reflash their PCM OS for 2 and 3 bar MAP). Just make sure all of the legal angles are handled, and put plenty of warning, and let us hack to our heart's content. :)

[GMPX]

Watch this space, there will be a decision made regarding all this VERY soon, both sides of the fence have very valid arguements.

Cheers,
Ross

[mistermike]

If you get a workshop level license with Flashscan you can alter the knock sensor filters, so if you knew the LS2 knock sensor characteristics you could always copy them into the LS1/6 tables.
I have a nagging false knock problem. Does this mean I won't be able to fix it with the standard version? HP and Edit users have had good results in this area.

I'll take a guess. Edit will let you turn off the knock sensors(not a guess). It sounds like the WS Level will let you change sensitivity(guess).
Not so much turn it off, which I would never want to do, but simply make it behave itself. Here's an example thread: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?board=gmv8engine;action=display;num=109927 1043
Attached exerpt from manual (minus graphics)

[Brains]

LS1Edit has had knock sensor sensitivity adjustments for a long time, and for my motor it has been the difference between disabling them entirely and actually being able to utilize knock sense. Crippling the software is just crap, like thumbing your nose at the people who need the product -- especially if they bought it without looking for what they were and were not "allowed" to have. I'd be VERY disappointed if EFILive crippled the package.

[Delco]

LS1Edit has had knock sensor sensitivity adjustments for a long time, and for my motor it has been the difference between disabling them entirely and actually being able to utilize knock sense. Crippling the software is just crap, like thumbing your nose at the people who need the product -- especially if they bought it without looking for what they were and were not "allowed" to have. I'd be VERY disappointed if EFILive crippled the package.

The same stuff is already in Flashscan , take a look

You have a crippling problem ???

[Blacky]

Watch this space, there will be a decision made regarding all this VERY soon, both sides of the fence have very valid arguements.

Cheers,
Ross

The Workshop and Personal versions of EFILive were originally designed to edit different calibration sets. (In fact, they were originally designed with different hardware, but some tricky PCB design work by GMPX managed to squeeze all the workshop functionality onto the smaller Personal interface. Which is why you will see all interfaces, Personal and Workshop, with FSP on the label, maybe we can call it "FlashScan Portable" instead :) ).

A decision was made recently to bring the two versions into line and the Personal and Workshop versions will edit the same calibration sets.

The only difference will be the workshop version will allow unlimited vehicles, the Personal version will be limited to however many PCM licenses you choose to purchase.

Regards
Paul

[koolrayz]

WOW :shock:
This sure took on a life of its own. Please bare with me as Im new to tuning and at this point have been using mail order predator tunes on my car. back to my original question. Im sure that EFI will be selling a tuning tool for the ls-2 in the future. This tuning tool will read and edit the funtions of the ls2 knock sensors. If im reading this correctly your tool WILL be able to reprogram the ls1 computer to read the ls2 knock sensors? would this be a patch or an optional program of some type? Im trying to imagine how this would work as there seem's to me to be a big difference between changing the parameters within a program and changing the base program as you would have to do to read the sensors of the ls2 with the ls1 computer. are the ls2's going to be programed with the same cable as the ls1's.
P.S. ive really enjoyed using the demo software. I look forward to purchasing the REAL DEAL

[Brains]

Outstanding news, Paul.. Glad you guys made the final decision to keep everything in the box ....

[AllCammedUp]

I agree - I think it's a great move, and one that will benefit the product and the user-base when you compare it to the competition. Thanks!

[GMPX]

Im sure that EFI will be selling a tuning tool for the ls-2 in the future.

Yes that is the plan, we don't want to stop at LS1/6.



This tuning tool will read and edit the funtions of the ls2 knock sensors. If im reading this correctly your tool WILL be able to reprogram the ls1 computer to read the ls2 knock sensors? would this be a patch or an optional program of some type? Im trying to imagine how this would work as there seem's to me to be a big difference between changing the parameters within a program and changing the base program as you would have to do to read the sensors of the ls2 with the ls1 computer.

I think you might be misunderstanding something.
A knock sensor is really just a microphone, the PCM via it's dedicated knock processing chip and through software filtering (what you can change in Flashscan) deciphers what is just engine running noise and what is actually knock. You know those 'vocal cancelling' effects you can do in audio editing software to remove a singer from the music?, well, that is the goal of the PCM hardware and software, to remove all the other noise picked up by the knock sensor and just listen for knock.

To be honest I am not familiar with the actual knock sensors on the LS2, however, given that PCM is a generation ahead of the current LS1 PCM chances are the knock detection hardware and software algoritms are improved and therefore it all appears better than the LS1 system.
So to answer your question, patching in the LS2 PCM knock processing methods into an LS1 PCM won't happen.

Hope that clears thing up a bit.

Cheers,
Ross

[koolrayz]

Thank you for the detailed response. yes that does clear things up. not exactly what i was hoping for but i apreciate it none the less. :wink:

[Drake]

The only difference will be the workshop version will allow unlimited vehicles, the Personal version will be limited to however many PCM licenses you choose to purchase.

Regards
Paul

Yet more good news. Great job guys. :mrgreen:

[cured5.7]

just keeps getting better and better,
I dont know how much more of this i can take....... :lol:

Mark