Ideas/help adjusting my nitrous tune for NA

[jermstyle]

Hello - I have EFILive V2 and I'd like to install COS5 on my 02 LS1 and configure the nitrous monitor.

The mods on my car are listed here:
http://www.fquick.com/garages/Chevrolet/Camaro_SS/2002/429/

I currently have my car tuned by MTI to run a 100 shot and it runs just fine with spray, but it's not overly impressive N/A.

I have attached my nitrous tune and I'd like to get some suggestions on how to modify this to be a strong N/A tune so I can then swap the spark and fuel tables from this tune with COS5 when the nitrous is enabled.

The car made 420 N/A and 520 Nitrous with a 100 shot. I'd like to see the N/A numbers in the 450 range if possible and then I'll swap to 150 jets for spray.

Several other cars that have close to my same setup have made 460 with a strong N/A only tune.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[jermstyle]

It looks like I really only need to change my timing. It looks like the tune is pretty sharp and not smoothed out. Any ideas?

Thanks!

[5.7ute]

Your AFR's NA could be run a fair bit leaner under PE. 11.9:1 is too rich IMO. Also I would think that you may be able to run a bit more timing NA. Mine likes around 29 deg but this has been verified on the dyno. With a 100 shot I pull 3 deg with A0016 while with a 150 shot 6 deg seems to be the go. There is no power difference between 4 & 6 deg on mine so I left it on the lower timing.
I have been running a wet shot while waiting for my bigger injectors so I have not needed to use the A0015 ve multiplier as yet.

[joecar]

Edit C5601 and C5602 to some in-range values.

[jermstyle]

I changed C5601 to 2 and C5602 to 1.

Would either of you guys like to make some adjustments to my tune that I can play around with?

I am just starting to play with this but it looks like it should be a lot smoother and that more tables need to be adjusted. He only changed a couple of things to make the car run but I can tell that it could use a lot more tuning.

I just installed COS5 and got the car running so I'd like to get a good N/A tune configured and then just pull some timing for nitrous.

thanks

[5.7ute]

Post up your COS5 tune file so we can have a look.

[jermstyle]

COS5 Tune

[5.7ute]

Here is your tune with the B3647 table corrected. my baseline timing( I run a few more degrees than this) & a few other quick changes.
Do you have a wideband o2 sensor installed that you can log? If not you really should look at either buying or borrowing one. You need to dial in your fuelling before thinking about spraying the gas!!!!!!!
Also can someone who has dialled in some svo30 injectors look at his IFR table. It looks low to me & there is no real consensus on here about the rated flow on these.
Make sure you log KR if you use these timing tables.

[joecar]

Get A0001/2 in-range.

[jermstyle]

What is in range for A0001 and 2?

UTE - Thanks for adjusting my tune. I'll play around with this and see how it runs.

I think my injectors do need to be dialed in though because the car dumps gas to the point that your eyes burn when you stand next to it for 2 min. Most of that is due to not cats, but it still feels like it isn't dialed in right.

What WB do you use?

Also, if I see any KR is that always a sign of too much timing? I noticed a little KR last night with the tune before you adjusted it.

[5.7ute]

To get the values in range do this.
Change A0001/2 to 99.
Save tune then close it.
re open tune & set A0001/2 to 100.
Save tune, close it then reopen.
Its not just your IFR that seems low. Your VE table looks like it has been set just to get the car running. This is why IMO you need to get a wideband hooked up, Set your IFR to reflect the injectors you have & go through the Auto VE process, then auto maf.
The KR could be any number of things from incorrect AFR for the load to too much timing.
As for smelling like fuel I am not surprised considering your B3647 table was commanding around 11:1 AFR at idle. This table is map/rpm based whereas your B3605 table that you transferred over to here is map/ect based.

[jermstyle]

I re-adjusted my tune file to match your changes less the timing. I'm going to flash it and do some scanning before I change that.

I also ordered an LC-1 so I'll be installing that this weekend and using the EGR pin for logging. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions about the LC-1 install?

[5.7ute]

I re-adjusted my tune file to match your changes less the timing. I'm going to flash it and do some scanning before I change that.

I also ordered an LC-1 so I'll be installing that this weekend and using the EGR pin for logging. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions about the LC-1 install?

I have not used an lc-1 so I cannot comment on it. If you do a search on this site you will find the info you are after as many here do use it with good results.

[jermstyle]

I just flashed the car with the updated tune and it runs a lot better. I did see some KR though with the old timing tables.

Here is my log if you want to see. I'm still getting familiar with EFILive so I just used the default pid selection.

[5.7ute]

Can you post the tune that last log was taken with?

[jermstyle]

Tune.

I have valet turned on just to play with for now.

[5.7ute]

I am just trying to figure out why the commanded afr in the log is 14.63 (stoich) yet commanded AFR in B3647 is 14.5. Maybe someone else can see what is going on there.
Can you verify that the tune in the pcm is the same as whats posted.

[jermstyle]

It's the same - Plus I flashed it right before doing that scan.

I'm still learning all of this - But would B3601 have anything to do with it?

[5.7ute]

It's the same - Plus I flashed it right before doing that scan.

I'm still learning all of this - But would B3601 have anything to do with it?


Not really. B3601 is to tell the pcm what the stoich ratio is of the fuel being used. This is then used in the internal calculations of the pcm to determine the final pulsewidth. There are a few good threads on the subject in here that will be able to explain this better. I understand it in my head but cant describe it as well as someone like joecar can.
Commanded fuel AFR is determined by the richer of B3647 + modifiers or B3618 + modifiers if enabled. There are a few others like cat protection fuelling or piston protection fuelling etc but they are not enabled here.
I had noticed this same thing earlier with my COS5 tune but havent had a look at a log from cold start for a long time. :bangin: I will have to stop chasing power & start refining my tune over the break.

[joecar]

Could be maybe one or more afterstart enrichment tables... I need to take a closer look.

[jermstyle]

Okay, here is what I’ve done so far. Please let me know what if any of this is incorrect or not complete.

Wideband.

I have an LC-1 that I’m going to install this week. I plan to weld a new bung into the I-Pipe to install the wideband. For the LC-1, I’ll install the grounds to the back of the cylinder heads and run the 0-5v signal to blue bar pin 55 on the harness.

Inside the scan tool I’ve created a few new PIDs using the calc_pid.txt file.

*CLC-00-001
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{GM.EGRS}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({GM.EGRS}*3)+7.35"

*CLC-00-002
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "({CALC.AFR_Egr}/{GM.AFR}"

# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.AFR_Egr F001 CLC-00-001 AFR O2-Wide "AFR From LC-1 on pin 55 (EGR)"
CALC.AFR_BEN F002 CLC-00-002 factor O2-Wide "Base Efficiency Number LC-1 CALC.AFR_Egr"


I’m hoping that this will let me view the AFR and BEN on my new chart I created.



Now, into the tune.

I changed B1301 to Enabled so I can log EGR data. I also changed B5907 to all zeros just to make sure that it doesn’t mess with my timing.

For my injectors. I have SVO 30’s so using the injector sizing spreadsheet I put 40 for rated fuel pressure; 58 for rail pressure (what my gauge says) and 30 for flow rate.

I haven’t done so just yet, but I’m planning to add this data to B4001 to correct my IFR.


Once this is all done I’ll do a lot of logging and try to figure out AutoVE.



Anyway, let me know if any of this looks right. There is a ton to learn but fortunately there is a lot of info here. I wish some of it was a bit more consolidated though.

Jeremy

[joecar]

Delete the extra parenthesis:

*CLC-00-001
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{GM.EGRS}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({GM.EGRS}*3)+7.35"

*CLC-00-002
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "({CALC.AFR_Egr}/{GM.AFR}"

# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.AFR_Egr F001 CLC-00-001 AFR O2-Wide "AFR From LC-1 on pin 55 (EGR)"
CALC.AFR_BEN F002 CLC-00-002 factor O2-Wide "Base Efficiency Number LC-1 CALC.AFR_Egr"

[joecar]

Yes, that should let you view the LC-1 analog AFR thru thge EGR voltage pid.

Yes, those go into IFR spreadsheet... make sure you use the right units (lb/hr or g/s) from the spreadsheet result.

What car do you have...? Does it have the returnless FPR (Camaro/Firebird) or the MAP-referenced FRP [with return line] (truck)...?

In the case of the MAP-referenced FPR the IFR will be flat across, the whole table will be the same value as the first cell (i.e. MANVAC=0); in this case, measure rail pressure with reference hose disconnected from FPR.

[jermstyle]

Thanks for the info.

On the IFR I really wanted to verify that I had the correct parameters for the spreadsheet.

It’s an 02 Camaro (http://www.fquick.com/garages/Chevrolet/Camaro_SS/2002/429/) with the returnless FPR and 60 rail PSI that drops to 58 under load. My injectors are SVO 30’s so do I need to use the accepted actual flow rate of 34-36# or will the spreadsheet factor that in based on the rated pressure and rail pressure?

[joecar]

Enter the known accepted rated flowrate and pressure...
the spreadsheet adjusts the flowrate for your measured rail pressure.

The spreadsheet computes this:

IFR = IFRrated * sqrt((Pmeasured + MANVAC)/Prated)

[joecar]

i.e. the spreadsheet only crunches the numbers fed into it.