New LS3 in C5 Z06 with LS7 MAF/TB + FAST 92 IM

[-X-]

I have a 2002 C5 Z06 and just replaced the bottom end of the LS6 with an LS3 bottom end with a 4.000" crank (418 ci). I have a Halltech Killer Bee air intake from a C6 Z06 that included an LS7 (103mm) MAF sensor, which Halltech gave me tables for it to work on the old LS6. I also upgraded to an LS7 throttle body and a FAST 92 intake manifold (which was also ported).

I had my tuner create a baseline tune and we fired it up the other day for the first time. After giving it time to relearn idle, we took it for a drive yesterday for 17 miles. The engine stalls nearly every time when coming to a stop and won't hold idle.

The following DTCs were tripped:

P0102 (MAF-related)
P0335 (CKP-related)
P0336 (CKP-related)

Since we upgraded to a bigger crank and the larger intake pieces, the current thought is that we have to do the crank relearn procedure, which we'll attempt on Monday.

Another issue is that the MAF and VE tables are likely way off and I was wondering if someone has tuned this type of setup before. The tuner I'm working with said I had to create new maps for these and I haven't done any previously.

One more thing is that some of the PIDs for logging do not appear to be valid when using the GEN III 99-08 PCM controller type. An example is GM.ENGLOAD appears as invalid but still logs.

We added the following PID:
Delivered Engine Torque (GM.TRQENG) - It shows up as valid, but nothing is logged.

I'm using EFILive v7.5.5, which I just upgraded to from v7; tried updating the bootblock on the V2 scanner but the program said I had to use EFI Explorer (which I believe is in 8.1 beta) because my bootblock version was too new. It appears to be logging everything accurately.

I have two logfiles if someone wants to take a look, during the idle relearn process and during the test drive.

[-X-]

Hrm... Maybe I should have posted this in the Gen III forum instead since the PCM is Gen III. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.

[-X-]

Here are some other PIDs we've tried to find but don't seem to be available:

Engine Vacuum
Fuel Trim Learn (commands off when lifting off gas pedal)
Calculated Load
Loop Status (states when engine is in open or closed loop)

[joecar]

Hi -X-,

I moved the thread to Gen III as requested.

You're still using the PCM that came with your Z06 (99-08 Gen III PCM), right...?

With this III PCM you can log these:
GM.LOADPCT
GM.MANVAC
GM.LONGFT1/2
SAE.FUELSYS

GM.TRQENG is a auto trans pid that the PCM uses internally for indexing into the various auto trans tables, so it may not work.

You should be able to log the following pids:
VSS
RPM
TP
MAF
MAP
IAT
ECT
AFR
SPARKADV
KR
IBPW1
IBPW2
DYNCYLAIR_DMA
LONGFT1
LONGFT2
HO2S11
HO2S21


Did you or your tuner follow these steps:
1. recalculate the IFR using the spreadsheet,
2. do AutoVE following the tutorial,
3. enable the MAF (nothing else), set B0120 to zero and do an "AutoMAF",
4. enable closed loop, cat protection, DFCO.

P0102 may mean you're in SD (MAF-less) as intentionally set by your tuner.

Since your rotating assembly has changed you should do a CASE relearn, this will correctly prime the misfire detection algorithm (and may do some other things we don't know about).

http://www.ls2.com/boggs/dtcs/DTC%20P0335.htm
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/dtcs/DTC%20P0336.htm

Check your crank sensor wiring and/or the crank sensor itself (how old is it...?).

[joecar]

Which build of EFILive software are you using...?

Install EFILive V8 (which is EFILive Explorer (EE)), and then do this:
- read the attached document,
- connect PC to V2, start EE, click on Firmware tab, take a screenshot and post here.

[TFZ_Z06]

I have a 2002 C5 Z06 and just replaced the bottom end of the LS6 with an LS3 bottom end with a 4.000" crank (418 ci). I have a Halltech Killer Bee air intake from a C6 Z06 that included an LS7 (103mm) MAF sensor, which Halltech gave me tables for it to work on the old LS6. I also upgraded to an LS7 throttle body and a FAST 92 intake manifold (which was also ported).

I had my tuner create a baseline tune and we fired it up the other day for the first time. After giving it time to relearn idle, we took it for a drive yesterday for 17 miles. The engine stalls nearly every time when coming to a stop and won't hold idle.

The following DTCs were tripped:

P0102 (MAF-related)
P0335 (CKP-related)
P0336 (CKP-related)


FYI:
When we installed my 402, I got the crank signal errors. It was because the 02 and 05 wiring was different for the signal sensor. I think the upper cam gears are diff also. He crossed two wires (don't know which ones from sensor) and the signal error was fixed, power came alive.
The engine would crank/run, but did not run well at idle.

[-X-]

7.5.5 build 74. The scanner is at the shop so I can't do a bootblock/firmware check until tomorrow.

Only thing really done so far is IFR.

I just finished following the AutoVE tutorial and created a .tun for speed density.

How long should the AutoVE .tun be run so that the VE values are stable enough to copy back to the original .tun?

What is the purpose of copying the high octane spark table to the low octane spark table? Seems like it would not be a good idea to prevent the engine from pulling timing if poor conditions exist.

How is the AutoMAF procedure done? I'll search the site in the meantime.

I will have the shop check the crank sensor wiring for reversed wiring and will still perform the crank relearn (CASE) anyway.

Keep in mind that since this is a brand new motor, I want to make sure the rings get seated with the current tune before doing major tweaking with AutoVE/AutoMAF, etc.

Thanks for the responses.

[5.7ute]

Auto VE should be run until you get the bens within 1 or 2%.(between 0.98 & 1.02.) This may take several runs with the collected data. 50 good counts or more per cell is the minimum you should aim for during this process.
The high octane table is copied to the low octane table because in SD (mafless) mode in a non custom OS only the low octane table is used. Kr will still be pulled when necessary it just wont learn to a lower table.

[joecar]

In SD (i.e. MAF disabled per AutoVE), the PCM defaults to the LO spark table (unless you're running a COS as 5.7ute said).

AutoMAF == same setup/procedure as AutoVE, with the following differences:
- MAF is enabled (set the fail settings back to stock),
- B0120 is set to zero,
- BEN map looks like B5001 MAF table (indexed by MAFFREQ),
- you also have to log MAFFREQ,

i.e. you still have OL (closed loop disabled) and COTP/DFCO disabled;

you have to create a new BEN map to look like B5001;

the procedure is to log, apply the filter to the BEN map, and paste/multiple the BEN map to B5001, do cal-only flash; repeat a few times.

When satisfied with MAF, set B0120 back to stock (usually 4000 rpm).

[-X-]

Ok, thanks for the info.

We did the CASE procedure and it lost idle completely. Turns out there is a problem with the Accel. Pedal Position sensor assembly (P1275 & P1276 DTCs were present from way back and never resolved) which is preventing the PCM from learning and stabilizing idle. Once that is replaced, we'll see how it runs.