GEN IV swap AFM is not enabled

[harascho]

I am comming to the finish line with the 5.3 LMG swap into my 1997 Tahoe.

One last thing is, I do not get all the conditions that AFM is enabling.
After going through all the necessary conditions it seems that one thing that could inhibit V4 mode is the vacuum brake booster pressure sensor. It is read by the EBCM and then distributed via the CAN bus. So here's the problem, there is no easy way to get that sensor status on the CAN bus without an EBCM.

Are there any possibilities EFIlive could disable some modules / conditions so that my E38 ECM is able to switch to V4 mode?

Any suggestions?

Harald

[VEGASROBBI]

I'm up against the same wall:wallbash: I believe I met all the conditions to enable AFM also; except the Brake booster sensor(82' Toyota 4 x 4).

You are correct, the sensor data is sent via serial data to the ECM from the EBCM. The brake booster pid always reads 0 volts on the scan tool otherwise.

My engine is from a 07' Siverado and there are two different EBCM's, one with JL4 and one without. The one without does not have the brake booster sensor but still has an E38. So I'm thinking trucks with AFM have JL4?

I can't find any condition to change in the ECM calibration regarding the brake booster sensor.

Sorry this doesn't help, I'm thinking out loud. It must be pass thru data from the EBCM the ECM reacts too, so maybe a OS patch is the solution.

Maybe I'm thinking too hard and there is a simple solution:) Seems to me I've read about conversions where AFM works without the EBCM.

[harascho]

Now we are three with the same problem. Patrick is at the same point with his 5.3 LMG swap.
If there are two different E38 calibrations out there ( with and without bosster sensor..) we should check if a suitable version of the E38 software calibration without bosster pressure sensor exists. As far as I know all '07 5.3's had AFM, so this is not the point.

Harald

[GAMEOVER]

Hey guy's, I'm trying to figure out why my AFM won't enable after I disabled it to see what my MPG was without it!!! Maybe there's something else involved...Can't figure it out...The last thing to try is my stock ECM, which I replaced with my current ECM(for tuning purposes) :)

[joecar]

GAMEOVER, have you tried flashing in any of your previous tune files (from prior to where AFM was disabled)...?

[GAMEOVER]

Yes, I tried it yesterday. Ross told me that it might work but still wouldn't work....

[GAMEOVER]

Maybe it's not the ECM...

[GAMEOVER]

I'm going to try my stock ECM this weekend and maybe that'll be the fix:)

[GTPprix]

If you can find anyone near Michigan with this issue let me know, I can throw that frame on the bus for someone and see if it turns on. If so it wouldnt take too much to design an interface that simply grabs can hi/low and transmits the frame at the appropriate intervals.

[VEGASROBBI]

There are several 5.3's offered in the 07' Silverado Classics which do not have AFM. I see three brake systems offered and none have the booster sensor. It would be interesting the compare calibrations but since the Classics don't have AFM it's not promising.

I think GTPprix is on the right track. If he could simulate the bus data, and AFM enables it would at least verify our suspicions.

GAMEOVER make sure your COT is enabled, I heard disabling it will take out AFM

[harascho]

Hi guys, Patrick told me about a guy with a 2007 5.3 in a Volvo that has AFM
working- we should look in to that. We guess he has a volvo in his alias name, but we are not sure. He is posting here on the EFIlive forum..

Does anyone have an idea?

[GTPprix]

Ok this type of stuff intrigues me so I started doing some poking around. The 5.3L LS4 (07+) has a hard input line to the ECM for the Brake Vacuum sensor and uses an E67 controller. You guys are using the E38 for these conversions correct? Let me see if I can find a correlary here..

[GAMEOVER]

there are several 5.3's offered in the 07' silverado classics which do not have afm. I see three brake systems offered and none have the booster sensor. It would be interesting the compare calibrations but since the classics don't have afm it's not promising.

I think gtpprix is on the right track. If he could simulate the bus data, and afm enables it would at least verify our suspicions.

Gameover make sure your cot is enabled, i heard disabling it will take out afm

cot?????

[GTPprix]

Cat-overtemp.

[VEGASROBBI]

I'm using an E38 ECM. There is no hard wire from the sensor to the ECM. It goes from the sensor to the EBCM then to the ECM via bus. The sensor appears to be a simple three wire power, ground, signal sensor akin to a MAP.

I'll try and upload the wiring diagram.

[GTPprix]

I just pulled up the diagrams, yeah easiest way I think other than maybe begging ross to remove that part of the enable code would be simply spoof the data. Find me someone in detroit that has this and i'll take care of getting you the data you need.

[harascho]

Hey guys, it seems that we have some movement in this matter.

Very good thoughts from what I read so far. I just want to point out one little thing before we run to a GM dealer, have a suitable Truck for a testdrive and pull out a CAN analizer...
Is the missing booster sensor message really the missing link for enabling AFM?? From the stuff I read it seems like that, but only a visit at a GM dealer with a Tech II could really proof what AFM condition is missing.
So for all comming swaps a system patch isn't that bad at all??

I hope we will have some comments from Ross in this matter..

Harald

[VEGASROBBI]

Thanks for the offer GTPprix.

Were not sure the BBS is the inhibiting factor. In fact there are a lot of variables that will disable AFM. Seems the BBS is the one we do not have control of.
Here is a list of disabling factors.

[GTPprix]

Well if someone can get me a truck here we can unplug the sensor see if it no longer operates then spoof the data on the bus and see if it operates. Should be a relatively easy test :)

[GAMEOVER]

VEGASROBBI you were absolutely right!!! I re-enabled COT and my AFM is working now!!!:D

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

[GAMEOVER]

Yes, I'm a senior member:cucumber:

[PSWired]

Here is the guy I was thinking of:

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7939

Next step for me is to construct a CAN sniffer. Then maybe I can find an EBCM on ebay, install, sniff relevant message exchange, and then sell the EBCM on ebay again. It's going to be a while before I have time for this.

Alternatively, if the EFILive folks can find out if there are calibration parameters that enable/disable each step of the AFM readiness check, that would save us a LOT of trouble...

[ssvolvo]

Yep that's me.

My ECM is an E40 from an 06 Envoy 5.3. The brake booster sensor is wired right into the E40 directly so I had no problem. No EBCM at all.

I certainly can't help much with E38 stuff as I'm still learning my 08 Silverado.

I'm all for someone designing an interface module to do lots of swap stuff. Alt. light, oil light, cruise.

Swapping in new stuff willl be darn near impossible in the near future unless we have somthing for this.

Good luck, John Turning low 12s @25-26 mpg with 4L60 Still burning lots of rubber.

[GMPX]

Alternatively, if the EFILive folks can find out if there are calibration parameters that enable/disable each step of the AFM readiness check, that would save us a LOT of trouble...
Ok, will put that on the to do list, generally that stuff is 'reasonably' simple as it's just a matter if tracing over all the "if this and that" type scenario's in the code.
It's funny how times change, when we first released E38, all people wanted to do was switch off the AFM function!

Cheers,
Ross

[GTPprix]

See there ya go Ross to the rescue! :)

[GMPX]

What's the old saying? don't count your chickens until the eggs are hatched :grin:

[GTPprix]

What's the old saying? don't count your chickens until the eggs are hatched :grin:

And here I am trying to help the hard way I figured they already asked you! LOL Shows what I know! :)

[GMPX]

VEGASROBBI you were absolutely right!!! I re-enabled COT and my AFM is working now!!!:D

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:
Now that is weird!

[GMPX]

A bit of a look at this, AFM can be disabled by many things. Based on that it is pretty much a given that the base file you are tuning comes from a factory optioned AFM vehicle. There is going to be many underlying options / parameters that will need to be met.
But, as best as I can figure the major checks are -

Crank Sensor DTC must not exist.
Crank / Cam correlation DTC must not exist.
Intake (or exhaust) position sensor DTC must not exist.
Oil Temp must be within a specified range.
Oil Pressure must be within a specified range.
RPM must be within a specified range.
Engine Run Time must be over a specified value.
Engine not in limp home mode.
Engine not cold.

If you try to move the cam in the scan tool DVT control panel and it errors, the error code might give some insight as to why it won't allow it.

Cheers,
Ross

[harascho]

it seems we've got some help from the pro's in our AFM corner.

Yes, the times are changing and fuel economy is playing a big part. As I live in Germany and our fuel is a lot more expensive than elsewhere.. every trick too sqeeze a few more miles out of a gallon is very welcome.

In the moment with short distance driving ( easy going.. about 14mls trips) I get about 19l/100km with my 2007 5.3 LMG and 4L60E in my 1997 2dr 4wd Tahoe which is real bad ( These are the DIC numbers, I didn't calculate myself..). My old 5,7 Vortec was better in this matter.. so I think there is room for improvement.

I read some notes that there are software upgrades for the E38 from Chevy concerning the DIC fuel accuracy, E85 calculations and such. How can I get my hands on those with no Chevy dealer in my area? ( OS of my E38 is:12605898 OS of my T42: 24235341). Next is my T42 calibration is from a 2wd. So 4Lo is not possible in the moment. Has anybody a suitable 4wd calibration for my T42?

Another headache are some warning lights in the '07 cluster I use. I get the brake, antilock, security and a few more lit up all the time. Is there a way to disable them? The only thing I see is to open up the cluster and remove them the hard way.

And Ross, seems you forgot that lovely brake booster pressure sensor in your AFM list... this one seems to be the hardest one and hopefully the last one for us which inhibits the V4 mode

Harald

[VEGASROBBI]

I agree some sort of simulator would be welcome. IM still fighting the charge indicator light and the tach operation in my swap.

Harascho I have the calibration from my 07' Silverado 4x4 T42 I will send you.

I also have TIS for the latest upgrades but it requires a subscription and a scan tool to upload. I have been hesitant to upgrade my calibrations with TIS in light of the warnings I've been reading.

In addition I have a Mastertech and access to a TECH 2. I have no codes present in my ECU or TCM. I will take Ross's advice and monitor the CAM data.

Regarding the BBS it reads 0 volts in the ECM data list. I have the ability to scan the EBCM and it's codes, where the BBS resides; but, since I have no EBCM the Tech 2 does no good there.

[harascho]

I am not sure about TIS and the latest upgrades but I think GM improved lots of things in the E85 and AFM department.
If I read the TIS thread correct, problems will come when upgrading to an '09 OS....
I think upgrading doesn't necessarily include that you switch to the '09 OS but I am not that kind of an expert..

[PSWired]

A bit of a look at this, AFM can be disabled by many things. Based on that it is pretty much a given that the base file you are tuning comes from a factory optioned AFM vehicle. There is going to be many underlying options / parameters that will need to be met.
But, as best as I can figure the major checks are -

Crank Sensor DTC must not exist.
Crank / Cam correlation DTC must not exist.
Intake (or exhaust) position sensor DTC must not exist.
Oil Temp must be within a specified range.
Oil Pressure must be within a specified range.
RPM must be within a specified range.
Engine Run Time must be over a specified value.
Engine not in limp home mode.
Engine not cold.

If you try to move the cam in the scan tool DVT control panel and it errors, the error code might give some insight as to why it won't allow it.

Cheers,
Ross

Hi Ross. Thanks for looking in to this. I went through the list of AFM engagement prerequisites as documented by GM in the 2007 full size SUV service manual. In my application, I have three possibilities for disabling conditions for AFM.

1.) CKP variation not learned. I am unable to do the relearn until I upgrade the TCM OS to a 2009 version that is compatible with the 2009 OS on the ECM. Currently the 2007 OS in the TCM is indicating to the ECM that the trans is in D all the time. I'm waiting for 2009 OS support in EFILive before I have the dealer flash in the proper OS to the TCM.

2.) There may be some other unknown incompatibilites between the 2007 TCM OS and the 2009 ECM OS that are preventing AFM engagement.

3.) I have no EBCM on the CAN. The EBCM supplies the brake booster pressure data to the ECM in the full size SUV apps. Brake booster pressure check is a prerequisite for AFM engagement.

Harascho, on the other hand, only has problem #3 as a possibility. His ducks are in a row as far as ECM/TCM compatibility is concerned. This makes me think that if you were able to find the enabler for the brake booster pressure check in the AFM engagement routine, and provide a way to turn it off, we'd be in business.

Thanks again for looking in to this.

[harascho]

I couldn't say it any better... you got it to the point.
By the way my anti lock is working now, but I am stuck with that 2wd TCM tun and it seems there is no 4wd TCM tun around that fits my TCM's OS. Ross mailed me one but with this tun file the tranny acts weird. I tried to compare the .tun files with the tune tool but then I get this "out of range message" see earlier threads concerning the speedo calibration.

Stuck in the mud I would say..

I've put that speedo calibration / out of range issue and that AFM brake booster sensor stuff on my list of wishes for Christmas .

Maybe Santa Ross finds a few still moments to get his hands on this......

[harascho]

I forgot to thank you for your help in this case

[harascho]

Do we have any news in the AFM enabling condition's corner?

Like Patrick said a few days ago: This makes me think that if you were able to find the enabler for the brake booster pressure check in the AFM engagement routine, and provide a way to turn it off, we'd be in business.

by the way...have a happy new year...
Harald

[gmh308]

Happy New Year to All! may 09 be a great year!

[harascho]

Must be the holiday season that the AFM enabling crowd is still in V8 mode ???

No progress on the V4 enablers especially the brake booster pressure sensor message on the CAN bus ???

Harald

[gmh308]

Must be the holiday season that the AFM enabling crowd is still in V8 mode ???

No progress on the V4 enablers especially the brake booster pressure sensor message on the CAN bus ???

Harald

FYI - Dont know if it helps, but on the E38/L76, the brake booster sensor is wired to pins 21/22/53. 22 is ground, 53 is 5V, 21 is signal. If you can uncover the sensor current/resistance values (service manual - 08/09 G8 etc), you could use a few resistors or a pot to mimic the sensor.

Cheers.

[PSWired]

FYI - Dont know if it helps, but on the E38/L76, the brake booster sensor is wired to pins 21/22/53. 22 is ground, 53 is 5V, 21 is signal. If you can uncover the sensor current/resistance values (service manual - 08/09 G8 etc), you could use a few resistors or a pot to mimic the sensor.

Cheers.

I don't think these inputs are active in the truck operating systems. According to the GM diagrams, the brake booster pressure sensor is attached to the EBCM and the ECM gets the data over the CAN. If the EFILive team could locate a calibration value that specifies whether that data comes from the CAN or directly from those inputs (if they're not allocated to something else in the truck OS) then we'd be set and could throw in a couple resistors and be on our way.

[gmh308]

I don't think these inputs are active in the truck operating systems. According to the GM diagrams, the brake booster pressure sensor is attached to the EBCM and the ECM gets the data over the CAN. If the EFILive team could locate a calibration value that specifies whether that data comes from the CAN or directly from those inputs (if they're not allocated to something else in the truck OS) then we'd be set and could throw in a couple resistors and be on our way.


mmmm.....the old BCM. GM is out to thwart us by making the BCM the centre of the world/traffic cop on cars/trucks. Maybe that's the next major EFILive project beyond a total rewrite and keeping up with cal proliferation, ECM revisions, etc etc etc.....

In a year or two, to keep up with current vehicle electrical design, a BCM will be mandatory even in conversions....:cheers:

Cheers.

[harascho]

I checked the ECM connector. For the C1 connector they state 21,22 and 53 as "not used"... is that good or bad news? I feel not too bad. For me it seems GM didn't use those pins in the truck OS.

So as Patrick said before.. the only thing left is telling the ECM that the booster sensor is hardwired to 21,22 and 53...??

Without the help of the EFIlive crew we will stick in V8 mode forever...

Harald

[VEGASROBBI]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/797327-looking-2007-ecm-pinout-dod-knowledge-dod.html

This may be a potential lead. LH6-DOD-54-GMC posts he had to calibrate out his BCM to enable AFM.

Hopefully he is running an E38, I'll PM him.

[harascho]

Hi Vegasrobbi. I also contacted LH6-DOD-54-GMC but no reply so far.

Did you have luck in this matter ?

Harald

[VEGASROBBI]

Sorry, no reply yet. Those who can do - and those who can't wait.

[harascho]

VEGASROBBI, you emailed me your T42 .tun file (2007 Silverado..)

This is what happened:

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=9809

Harald

[harascho]

Just in case someone wants to get an impression what work is done so far...

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn67/harascho_album/?start=all

compared to that the AFM enabling and weird acting 4L60E/T42 shouldn't be a big problem in the end ??

Harald

[joecar]

Harald, I take my hat off to you...:rockon: you have put much work into this... :cheers:

[harascho]

Yes that's true.. but it also was a lot of fun. Now I have to improve my knowledge in the tuning, data logging corner and bring the AFM and 4wdlow to life.
I started a thread in the GENIV sector.. my bad milage is driving my a little crazy so I started my first steps of data logging...

Harald

[gmh308]

Harald, I take my hat off to you...:rockon: you have put much work into this... :cheers:

Harald, I must "ditto" Joecar. This is a very ambitious project, and checking through your photos shows the extent of the challenge, and whats more you are doing it in Germany, far from any local help!

Kudos to you!

Cheers :cheers:

[nycblazer]

Hello everyone

this is great stuff. good thing i waited 1 year. now i feel like leaving the AFM in my engine, i was about to eliminate it. thought i was alone. even got rid of my efilive fs now i'm gonna have to purchase another one. back then i asked a few Q's of VVT & it was like no one was listening to me. so it is possible to activate the AFM. how about the DOD.
i installed a 2007 6.2L VVT engine with AFM, & DOD into my 1999 s10 blazer mated to a T56 Viper spec tranny. would this work if i have a 6 speed manual or it only works for the automatic trannys...

[harascho]

ActiveFuelManagement and DisplacementOnDemand are just two expressions for the same thing, a cutoff of 4 cylinders in a V8 under special light load conditions.

Harald

[nycblazer]

ohh ok so i have VVT and AFM thanks just learned that lol

[GMPX]

I am working on adding in a number of new PID's for the scantool that show the state of the AFM enable / disable flags, I think this will really help track down why for some people it doesn't work, especially for conversions.

Cheers,
Ross

[VEGASROBBI]

Thanks

[harascho]

I am working on adding in a number of new PID's for the scantool that show the state of the AFM enable / disable flags, I think this will really help track down why for some people it doesn't work, especially for conversions.

Thanks for that help Ross, I hope you also thought about a way to enable/disable some of those conditions to make AFM work on conversions..

Harald

[GMPX]

I hope you also thought about a way to enable/disable some of those conditions to make AFM work on conversions.
Well, lets see where the problem is first :), there was a LOT of flags in the PID's to show why the AFM was disabled (see below). I would suspect some are calibrations that can be changed, but some might be hard coded in to the OS.

Cheers,
Ross

4WD Low On
4WD State Invalid
A/C About To Engage
AFM / DOD Solenoid Driver Fault
AFM / DOD Circuit Fault
Accelerator Pedal Position Delta High
Accelerator Pedal Position Too High
All Cylinders Activated By Scan Tool
Axle Torque Limiting
Brake Torque Management
Brake Vacuum Pressure Sensor Fault
Brake Vacuum Pressure Too Low
Cam Sensor Fault
Catalyst Over Temperature Protection
Coolant Temperature Not In Range
Coolant Too Hot
Crank Sensor Fault
Decel Fuel Cutoff Active
ETC Error
ETC Tip In Active
Electronic Throttle Control Reduced Power
Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Fault
Engine Metal Over Temperature Protection
Engine Misfire Detected
Engine Oil Pressure Not In Range
Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Fault
Engine Oil Temperature Not In Range
Engine Overspeed Protection
Engine RPM Not In Range
Engine Torque Inaccurate
Ethanol Content Learning
Fuel Shut Off Stability Timer Active
Heater Fast Warm Up Active
High Ethanol Content
Ignition Voltage Not In Range
Intake Air Temperature Sensor Fault
Low Catalyst Temperature
Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Fault
Manifold Vacuum Pressure Too Low
Max Deactivation Time Exceeded
Min Time With All Cylinders On Not Met
Oil Aeration
Piston Protection
Powertrain Relay Fault
Read O2 Test Active
Trans Gear Incorrect
Trans Gear Shift In Progress
Trans Range Incorrect
Vehicle Speed Fault
Vehicle Speed Low

[nycblazer]

Can I ask a question a Quick Question... Will the AFM also work for a 6 speed manual transmission or does it only work on automatic transmissions?

I hope it works.

[GMPX]

Based on these three criteria, no it won't work.

Trans Gear Incorrect
Trans Gear Shift In Progress
Trans Range Incorrect

Cheers,
Ross

[ringram]

Maybe a "skip all AFM checks" patch would help M6 users and others, though could cause problems elsewhere I guess especially if oil pressure is too low etc.

[VEGASROBBI]

A shorter list of flags are applied when AFM is commanded through the scan tool.
I can enable my AFM while in park. IM guessing dynamic pids like the brake booster and transmission data are ignored; however, oil pressre, coolant temp...are not.

[GMPX]

For those that want to scan the AFM disable PID's, see this post for the updated file needed -
http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=86426&postcount=14

The new PID's for AFM are GM.AFMINHIB1 and GM.AFMINHIB2

Cheers,
Ross

[PSWired]

Ross, thanks for the update. I'll find out what's disabling AFM in my application and post back.

[harascho]

Thank you Ross for your help in this matter.
I will find out which condition inhibits V4 mode in my swap and come back to you with more info.

I was curious and tried V4 in "P" to have an impression of how the engine sounds....pretty interesting ...but I was very pleased to see the V4 symbol in the cluster the first time, even if it was only in "P".
The sound is a bit strange and there are vibrations.. but as Vegasrobbie said: "That's the sound of saving gas"

Ross do you have any ideas on the 4wdlo message stuff and that ECM input C1,2.....( see other threads of me..)??

Harald