Why Linux?

[Blacky]

I prefer Linux as a development platform (I "grew up" using Unix, developing in C), so making a native Linux port of EFILive is something that I would really like to see.

The first push would be to get "EFILive_Hapi" ported and running on Linux. EFILive Hapi is the Hardware API (HAPI) that allows multiple processes to communicate with FlashScan and AutoCal devices. The apps don't need to know anything about USB or OBDII, they just need to make API calls such as getVIN(), setVIN(), getPIDValue() etc.

From there, a published API would/could be made available so that Linux developers (and Windows developers) can write their own software to interface with FlashScan. Not sure how it would/could work but its a possibility.

As soon as "business" allows it and I can get some spare time, it is something that I will pursue. However, "getting time" to do it is the hard part.

If anyone is trying to get EFILive working on Linux and needs tech questions answered just post them in this forum.

Regards
Paul

[mr.prick]

:throw:
i don`t know for sure but from what i reckon, EFILive is a "small" company,
and i can think of a few more extra features that i would like to see
and i know some would agree that more controllers should
be supported before "other than Windows" OS, and Apple compatibility.
:crash:

i am in no way affiliated with Microsoft, just a customer.
my apologies if this distracts from this threads intent.
:angel_innocent:

[mxracer]

Even though I am a big proponent of Linux and us it as my primary OS for most of my own stuff. I agree with the post above. Paul, Ross, Cindy and the rest of the small crew here do an outstanding job IMO and there are surely other more important things than this.

I can see it from Paul's point of view as well though.

I guess at the end of the day I'd cast my vote for more functionality to what you guys already have done vs a port to Linux.

[Chevy366]

Paul if you followed the other thread you see that Codeweavers program will run EFILive but has a problem with the USB detection process .
So what does EFILive look for when needing USB device driver ?
Did you read both links in the thread especially the one about keyed device locking ?
I am not a coder , however have briefly messed around with C and C++ , but not enough to even think of writing code in it .
Wow , a guy needs a break from the usual sometimes and writing a little for Linux might give a person a needed break ! :bangin::throw::chair::crash::wallbash:

[joecar]

Subscribing to new thread as I have Mac OSX (unix/linux).

[nevinsb]

I would very much love to see Linux support as well (Since I do software testing on the Linux platform, although be it RH 7.3, for my job) but there are a few other things I would like to see fixed in the software (Like my issue with the evap DTC and an easier to use PID interface), and of course everyone wants support for some other PCM. The only computer I have running Windows is this laptop.

Fixing the USB driver/HAPI issue is probably going to be the biggest obstacle since odds are that the software will work OK in Cedega, WINE, or CodeWeavers.

[Blacky]

I guess I need to put any "port to Linux project" in context. I said

As soon as "business" allows it and I can get some spare time, it is something that I will pursue. However, "getting time" to do it is the hard part.
That translates as - as soon as EFILive V8 is released and stable then I might find time to look into the Linix thing. The hard part of that is, V8 will not be fully stable until well into 2009. V8 and any other outstanding issues with EFILive will of course take priority.

Meanwhile others who are trying to make it work as it stands, should ask questions in this forum. i.e. My contribution right now is limited to answering tech questions...

Regards
Paul

[gmh308]

Subscribed.

Call GetTime(lots)

Returns: very large negative number....

[Chevy366]

Anyone heard of this : http://www.alkyproject.com/

Would love to see a Netbook sized computer preloaded with Linux , EFILive and "instant on" for tuning , I know V2 with V8 is close to that , but no Internet connectivity .
Instant on for laptops is the new and great thing , and Linux is there doing it .

[Chevy366]

Good read : http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11222.html , http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/07/21/linux-kernel-2623-to-have-stable-userspace-driver-api/

[N0DIH]

MacOSX is closer to real Unix (BSD derived flavor IIRC, aka Darwin), not Linux....


Subscribing to new thread as I have Mac OSX (linux).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X

[Blacky]

MacOSX is closer to real Unix (BSD derived flavor IIRC, aka Darwin), not Linux....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X

Ahh UNIX - what is "real UNIX"? Many years ago I was employed to develop and port a virtual run time system and compiler (written in C) between various flavors of Unix. Nowadays UNIX is pretty ubiquitous, but back then (in the 80's) UNIX came in all shapes and sizes (both SYS-V and BSD). They were not particularly compatible at the processor/machine architecture level. And some were not even compatible at the system utilities level (i.e. lp, cron etc)

I ported the virtual run time to these systems: XENIX, HP-UX (PA-RISC 32bit and Itanium 64bit), DG/UX, DEC OSF1 (Alpha 64bit), AIX, Solaris, UniSys Unix and a few other ones I can't remember.

Regards
Paul

[N0DIH]

I always loved the term "real unix", it is pretty humorous to say the least!

It is truly amazing how many flavors came from Unix and now Linux. I used to know HP-UX some and Solaris, and now MacOS. I passed my Unix Admin course, but honestly don't remember much! The funny thing is I passed all my scripting on my MacOS 10.3 (Panther), it was easier to use than Linux!

I know enough simply to be dangerous....

[joecar]

I knew Bell Labs System III... I can't remember how long ago... :D

[N0DIH]

I never got used to using DOS, I had learned the Unix commands first and they were first nature, DOS and I never got along....

[swingtan]

Today, there is really only 3 major commercial Unix vendors left,

HP
IBM
Solaris


While there are still a few other brands around ( like SGI, NCR MP-RAS, SCO, etc ) they really have a very minor market share and if there is any real development, it's probably aimed more toward an appliance based device.

Generally speaking and I really mean "generally", given the limited number of commercial Unix vendors, you can break it into 2 groups...


HP-UX and Solaris: Pretty much SVR4 Unix with a few propriety addins. If you can administer HP or Sun with confidence, you can do pretty good in the other OS.
IBM AIX: The easiest way to describe this is that it's a mainframe with a Unix like front end. ( I'll cop it from the AIX guys but it's the easiest way to describe it ).


The two groups have good and bad points, as you would expect. I've had pretty extensive exposure to most flavours of Unix and have seen the difference in them. AIX was the most difficult for me coming from an SVR4 background. But I can see there are great advantages in both HP-UX and AIX. Solaris on the other hand I can see slowly being replaced by a port of Linux.

Speaking of Linux and Unix, there is a major reason people in the Unix space will differentiate between the two. Basically, due to the historical architecture of the Linux kernel, it doesn't scale as well as a commercial UNIX and doesn't seem to have the data throughput of the big UNIX boxes. I ran a few tests a coup,e of years ago, pitting a 1Ghz HP PA-RISC CPU against a 3Ghz Linux Intel CPU. While the server architecture was different, the disk subsystem was the same, an HDS USP server connected via fibre. When attempting to compress a large data block ( 5GB ) the HP server was 3 times faster than the Linux box. Don't get me started on the "Itanic" processor though...

But, I still love Linux and my current main server at work is a quad core Linux box. It's all "horses for courses". I've also just built a Linux laptop up for my 13 yr old daughter to use. Lately, the only thing stopping me from ditching Windows all together is EFILive.......

Simon.

[N0DIH]

I have my HP-UX 11 install CD's somewhere.... Had a HP J210 (3 of them) dual processor and stacked with ram was going to install it on, but never got around to it, I just ditched them, talk about HEAVY machines! My last box was a Sun Ultra 60, dual 450 MHz ultraSparc processors, 2GB ram, SCSI160, man was it nice!

Yup, I hear you on that, would rather be on MacOS or Linux myself, but my wife likes her stuff that works better in IE7 and won't work right at all anywhere else, so I gave in.... But the kids all miss Linux... I had games galore and cool ones too....

[joecar]

MacOSX is closer to real Unix (BSD derived flavor IIRC, aka Darwin), not Linux....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_XAh, I see.

[Chevy366]

Kernel 2.6.xx.xx has FTDI drivers in the Kernel , and HAL sees the V2 and apparently loads the correct drive for the FTDI chip .
FTDI says since Kernel 2.4.xx.xx the drivers have been include in the kernel here : http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
if you just have to have IE .
Minix is the best , Solaris 11 is still KDE (oops looks as if it can run Gnome also) on top of UNIX , or at least openSolaris : http://opensolaris.org/os/ it is ok .

[joecar]

MacOSX is closer to real Unix (BSD derived flavor IIRC, aka Darwin), not Linux....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X
Looking at some of those chronology trees, I can say I have also used TSS7 "System 7".

[joecar]

Shows drivers for Mac OSX, Mac OSX (Intel), and Linux.

[joecar]

Simon, that's a good summary of Unix flavours. :cheers:

[Chevy366]

If you could get EFILive program to stop wanting the driver through Explorer/Device Manager it might work in Codeweavers or WINE or whatever .
Like I have said Linux has moved forward since the old days , but MDK is so much easier so no one wants to fuss with the API , Mono : http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page has done a lot to help Linux port Winders software !

[swingtan]

I have my HP-UX 11 install CD's somewhere.... Had a HP J210 (3 of them) dual processor and stacked with ram was going to install it on, but never got around to it, I just ditched them, talk about HEAVY machines! My last box was a Sun Ultra 60, dual 450 MHz ultraSparc processors, 2GB ram, SCSI160, man was it nice!

Yup, I hear you on that, would rather be on MacOS or Linux myself, but my wife likes her stuff that works better in IE7 and won't work right at all anywhere else, so I gave in.... But the kids all miss Linux... I had games galore and cool ones too....


If we are having a "Mine is bigger than yours contest...." the last HP server I administered.....

HP Superdome

16 X 1Ghz PA-RISC cpu's
20 GB RAM
2.6 TB of primary disk with 2 sets of HDS Shadow Image / True Copy clones ( so 2.6 x 3 = 7.8 TB ).

that was a couple of years ago now.

The most "impressive" server I had was the NCR 5500 series though...

16 x Pentium 90 CPU's
4GB RAM
44 separate SCSI WD busses
300+ mount points

The NCR box was decommissioned for Y2K so you can imagine what a beast it was in it's day.

Simon

[Chevy366]

You can buy a laptop without a OS (Operating System) for 300 bucks cheaper then install Linux which you can get for free and load EFILive then tune away . :anitoof:
Linux can run on PPC (Mac) without emulation .

[emarkay]

Why not? :)

[emarkay]

OK, what can us Linux users do to assist in getting EFILive ported to the GNU/Linux realm - preferably the Debian/Ubuntu flavor?

We are here to test, evaluate and help.

MRK

[N0DIH]

it would be cool, I would much rather get a laptop and run Linux than windows.

Still pondering a MacBook Pro and put Windows on dual boot or with Dameware/Parallels. And then I could setup Linux too.... Best of all worlds!

[N0DIH]

I came up the Dec PDP-11 in school (basic only, I just hacked at games like Super Star Trek (http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/) and tried to keep within out 50k user limitation, so often I had to print out the code, and type it back in!), then Apple II+ with a CPM card and then nothing for a while until we got a Mac Plus with System 7.1 (ha! I still have the original full installer boxed set). I never did programming, never really my bag. I messed with Java and some Unix scripting, but would DARE call myself a programmer... I am so lost in the code it isn't even funny!


Looking at some of those chronology trees, I can say I have also used TSS7 "System 7".

[Chevy366]

As said , would need the source code to port to Linux , but sounds like V8 would be the best bet for porting .
If had source could port through Mono . Could see a Lenovo S10 Netbook with Linux and EFILive just setting there waiting to be used for tuning !

[1BadAction]

I registered to post up and let it be known that I'm on the Linux bandwagon also. Just ordered the V2 flashscan and a wideband kit. :rockon:

[Chevy366]

:welcome:
Alright , 1BadAction , glad to see another one aboard the Linux Band Wagon O--O/" .
You will definitively enjoy the V2 , I think Linux and Mac people get how EFIlive works easier than those Winders users . :hihi:
I am waiting for KDE 4.2.xx to stabilize and will continue the Codeweaver path once again .

[1BadAction]

Well I despise macs, and I'm far from a linux guru, but I'm having fun with it. :cheers:

[joecar]

1BA, welcome to the forum... :cheers:...cool avatar...:cheers:

[joecar]

I do linux development on a Dell PC running Win XP running SSH/PuTTY...

and I do Windows development on a MacBook Pro running VC++6.0 running on Win XP running on VMware running on OSX...

it just pisses off the establishment... :hihi:

[GMPX]

Well I despise macsNow be fair, thousands of community group newsletters depend on them. Besides, imagine a world without Mac users sitting in the corner of a cafe discussing how wonderful their computers are whilst sipping a fair trade mocca chocca green latte :grin:.

Cheers,
Ross

[Blacky]

Now be fair, thousands of community group newsletters depend on them. Besides, imagine a world without Mac users sitting in the corner of a cafe discussing how wonderful their computers are whilst sipping a fair trade mocca chocca green latte :grin:.

Cheers,
Ross

ROTFLMAO

Donna always said you had a dry sense of humor, I thought it couldn't get any drier but the drought in Australia has dried it up some more :)

Paul

[mistermike]

I was enticed the other day by an offer from Dell for a Mini9 for $200. 9 inch screen, solid state HD, and factory loaded with Ubuntu. What a nice knock-around car tuning platform that could be.

[1BadAction]

I was enticed the other day by an offer from Dell for a Mini9 for $200. 9 inch screen, solid state HD, and factory loaded with Ubuntu. What a nice knock-around car tuning platform that could be.

I loaded up an ubuntu mini12 and its on its way. :hihi: I have a full size inspirion with a fresh XP install that I'm going to use until I get that running how I want it.

Ross I'm dying laughing at that, the people in my office are looking at me like I'm nuts. LOL. :cheers: Thanks for the compliments guys, I'm liking the vibe here already. :D

[joecar]

Now be fair, thousands of community group newsletters depend on them. Besides, imagine a world without Mac users sitting in the corner of a cafe discussing how wonderful their computers are whilst sipping a fair trade mocca chocca green latte :grin:.

Cheers,
Ross:rotflmao:...lol... and there wouldn't be Mac ads.

[Chevy366]

Here you go : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0

[N0DIH]

http://www.designquote.net/blog_art/BSD.jpg

[N0DIH]

IIRC Mac's are on a BSD kernel....So is that what Mac is underneath?

[joecar]

See here: Darwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system))

[N0DIH]

"Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification) registered product on the Intel platform. It is also the first BSD-based (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Software_Distribution) OS to receive UNIX 03 certification.[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osx#cite_note-66)[68] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osx#cite_note-67)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osx

[abkimble]

Ok, I too grew up with C and Unix. One of those big auto parts stores to be exact. I'm in when I can find the time.

[critter]

My 2 bits. I am a linux and Mac user currently forced into retirement by the economy. My first unix experience was V7 long ago and I have passing acquaintance with a bunch of others in the interim. In addition to using linux as my desktop, I embedded it in instruments. I have never run Windows as a desktop but am forced to use it with VMware, VirtualPC, Parallels, etc on top of unix to tune. I would love to dispense with the VM.

I am rather surprised at the number of, if not *nix heads, people with passing familiarity here.

[joecar]

My 2 bits. I am a linux and Mac user currently forced into retirement by the economy. My first unix experience was V7 long ago and I have passing acquaintance with a bunch of others in the interim. In addition to using linux as my desktop, I embedded it in instruments. I have never run Windows as a desktop but am forced to use it with VMware, VirtualPC, Parallels, etc on top of unix to tune. I would love to dispense with the VM.

I am rather surprised at the number of, if not *nix heads, people with passing familiarity here.I was running WinXP on VMware Fusion... then I installed it natively using boot camp and I like this much better.

Yeah, I'm a *nix head... I compile linux kernels from the development kernel git tree just about every week; I'm one of the developers for the qla2xxx fibre channel boards/chips (lol... my code has made it on the linux kernel tree...:rockon:)... I used Version 7 a few lifetimes ago.

[gmh308]

I was running WinXP on VMware Fusion... then I installed it natively using boot camp and I like this much better.

Yeah, I'm a *nix head... I compile linux kernels from the development kernel git tree just about every week; I'm one of the developers for the qla2xxx fibre channel boards/chips (lol... my code has made it on the linux kernel tree...:rockon:)... I used Version 7 a few lifetimes ago.

my code has made it on the linux kernel tree...:rockon:



Cool! :grin:

[Chevy366]

I was running WinXP on VMware Fusion... then I installed it natively using boot camp and I like this much better.

Yeah, I'm a *nix head... I compile linux kernels from the development kernel git tree just about every week; I'm one of the developers for the qla2xxx fibre channel boards/chips (lol... my code has made it on the linux kernel tree...:rockon:)... I used Version 7 a few lifetimes ago.

Wow , like this , no I am not a coder .http://porno-bullen.de/~bluebird/initrd-qla2xxx/readme.txt
Kernel compile , haven't done that in years (first learned with SuSE) , ah the good old days .

[joecar]

Wow , like this , no I am not a coder .http://porno-bullen.de/~bluebird/initrd-qla2xxx/readme.txt (http://porno-bullen.de/%7Ebluebird/initrd-qla2xxx/readme.txt)
Kernel compile , haven't done that in years (first learned with SuSE) , ah the good old days .Yup, the qla2xxx driver is seeing that that particluar "embedded" card's nvram does not contain a valid wwpn (world wide port name, the FC analog of Ethernet's MAC address) so it complained, but still allowed operation.

[mistermike]

I work integrating and testing IBM P and I series servers. They will soon be offering Linux preloads as an alternative to AIX. Don't know which flavor yet. This is interesting considering how much Big Blue likes their proprietary O/S's.

[98 tigershark]

Helloo Joe,

You mean unix I think.
Linux is like kind but not the same.
Regards,
98 tigershark


Subscribing to new thread as I have Mac OSX (linux).

[joecar]

98TS, yes, I have since found out it's a Unix derivative...:cheers:

[98 tigershark]

Does anyone here know what OS your PCM uses?
98 tigershark
Think Ross Perot!
Hint, Ross Perot put up the majority of the venture capital for Steve Jobs's NeXT computer project in 1986.

[GMPX]

Does anyone here know what OS your PCM uses?Nothing hacked from a PC, it's just a custom written embedded OS by GM/Delphi.

[98 tigershark]

You got me pretty good earlier. I actually think the answer is EDS! Ross Perots Company and PCM system he sold to GM or so I am told.
98 tigershark


Nothing hacked from a PC, it's just a custom written embedded OS by GM/Delphi.

[gmh308]

Nothing hacked from a PC, it's just a custom written embedded OS by GM/Delphi.

Yeah I guess anything that ran on a PC would be too risky with their tendencies to go into the "standard feature" limbo mode for seconds at a time...:shock:. PC's even with Linux dont seem to handle real time all that well.

[GMPX]

There is no markers in there to say who wrote it, so I am guessing it was done in house. Unlike Bosch who run ERCOSEK by ETAS.
http://www2.lauterbach.com/doc/rtosercosek.pdf

[98 tigershark]

I think Ross Perot did what Bill Gates did to the guy who invented DOS, purchased the system for peanuts and then Sold it to GM for 3 Billion. He also sold his company that ran the book keeping for Medicare to GM. The Company was called EDS, I think. That was the same company that GM also used the system they got from EDS for their EFI OBD, Right?
98 tigershark


Yeah I guess anything that ran on a PC would be too risky with their tendencies to go into the "standard feature" limbo mode for seconds at a time...:shock:. PC's even with Linux dont seem to handle real time all that well.

[McRat]

I'd like to start playing with this. I'm moving my business computers to Linux, our file server and my desk are already there.

I've already got our CAD software running on it under WINE. Runs better under WINE than it does under Win7. Go figure.

Apple is OpenBSD "Darwin" IIRC. Kinda like Linux, but it's not.

I'm running Ubuntu 32-bit Linux.

[McRat]

OK, using the Crossover version of WINE, and starting with the latest version of EFILive 7, it decompresses, throws up the Splash screen, then asks if you want to update the registry. At that point it freezes. Neither Win98/XP/Vista bottles would do it.

I'll see if it will manually install.

[Chevy366]

OK, using the Crossover version of WINE, and starting with the latest version of EFILive 7, it decompresses, throws up the Splash screen, then asks if you want to update the registry. At that point it freezes. Neither Win98/XP/Vista bottles would do it.

I'll see if it will manually install.
I got EFILive to install and run, just no USB after so no controller communication .
You have to some how tie the USB driver recognition and install to the Codeweaver install or get the Codeweaver install to use USB communication through the EFILive software.

[nevinsb]

Thanks for reminding me, I still got that free codeweavers key I gotta use.

[McRat]

Don't bother with the Crossover for playing with EFILive, it currently won't work.

I loaded Wine 1.2 rc2 and it loaded fine.

Yes, the USB thingy is an issue, and I'm trying the "fix". If it works, I'll post how I did it.

It's pretty complicated for a newbie like me and required recompiling Wine it seems. After 2 hours I still didn't get it completely set up. I'll try again today.

Paul - I put in a service ticket at Codeweaver, there is a problem with their system and the EFILive installer. I uh, well.... also mentioned to them that you are interested in a Linux port. Don't hate me. :D they do that stuff professionally and are top level Wine developers (they develop Wine and the Codeweaver product).

Sure, Wine is not really native Linux, but you can't really tell. It hauls butt, and doesn't require a Win license or Win updates. Any solution that works, works. Plus it would allow you to package a Linux version without releasing source code for EFILive, which I don't believe the Linux license permits?

[Chevy366]

Don't bother with the Crossover for playing with EFILive, it currently won't work.

I loaded Wine 1.2 rc2 and it loaded fine.

Yes, the USB thingy is an issue, and I'm trying the "fix". If it works, I'll post how I did it.

It's pretty complicated for a newbie like me and required recompiling Wine it seems. After 2 hours I still didn't get it completely set up. I'll try again today.

Paul - I put in a service ticket at Codeweaver, there is a problem with their system and the EFILive installer. I uh, well.... also mentioned to them that you are interested in a Linux port. Don't hate me. :D they do that stuff professionally and are top level Wine developers (they develop Wine and the Codeweaver product).

Sure, Wine is not really native Linux, but you can't really tell. It hauls butt, and doesn't require a Win license or Win updates. Any solution that works, works. Plus it would allow you to package a Linux version without releasing source code for EFILive, which I don't believe the Linux license permits?
Good to hear that you are pursuing this further , I didn't give up just got sidetracked .
Will try with openSUSE WINE if I get some time in the next few days .
Codeweaver will write code to support the USB but at a cost , the Serial to USB chip that is used by the V2 shows to be driver supported already in the Kernel .
Do keep us posted as to what you find out .
Fellow Linux enthusiast.

[McRat]

<<<<< DO NOT USE THIS >>>>>

Saving this for notes. This is the "fix" for running USB support under Wine. It takes over an hour to compile, type these commands in 1 by 1 in the Terminal:


git clone git://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git ~/wine-git
cd ~/wine-git

sudo apt-get build-dep wine
sudo apt-get install libusb-1.0-0-dev

git branch usb-1.1.28 wine-1.1.28
git checkout usb-1.1.28
wget ftp://ftp.etersoft.ru/pub/people/amorozov/usb/1.1.28/0001-Add-support-of-native-Windows-drivers-for-USB-tokens.txt
wget ftp://ftp.etersoft.ru/pub/people/amorozov/usb/1.1.28/0002-Re-generate-some-files.txt
git am 0001-Add-support-of-native-Windows-drivers-for-USB-tokens.txt 0002-Re-generate-some-files.txt
./tools/make_makefiles
./configure
make depend
make
sudo make install

[McRat]

Good to hear that you are pursuing this further , I didn't give up just got sidetracked .
Will try with openSUSE WINE if I get some time in the next few days .
Codeweaver will write code to support the USB but at a cost , the Serial to USB chip that is used by the V2 shows to be driver supported already in the Kernel .
Do keep us posted as to what you find out .
Fellow Linux enthusiast.

OK, I need you to do me a favor. Put a program on a USB memory stick, and try to open it with EFILive under Wine.
I forgot to check before the "fix".

Right now, I can open USB files running EFILive under Wine, but I cannot see the V2 unit.

[Cougar281]

Pat, with all due respect, it sounds like you're blowing way more time getting EFILive to just work under Linux than you spent "Managing & Updating" Windows, where "Stuff just works".

I told one of my friends that DOES know linux very well what you said about Windows being harder/more time consuming to administer and update than linux and his exact words where "He's Nuts".

[Chevy366]

OK, I need you to do me a favor. Put a program on a USB memory stick, and try to open it with EFILive under Wine.
I forgot to check before the "fix".

Right now, I can open USB files running EFILive under Wine, but I cannot see the V2 unit.
Okay , if I get a chance this weekend , never mind Winders users comments , you know install Winders , now I have to install every driver and restart 20 times , wow so easy . ;-0
I have to say in Winders things do just work , Viruses , Trojans , Back Door Key Loggers , so he is correct . ;-)
Of course buy a Laptop/Netbook , Desktop with Winders pre-installed , no sweat , see how easy that was . ;-)

[Chevy366]

Hey try this , go into EFILive in WINE and find the "drivers" folder and it holds the drivers for the V2 FTDI chip (Serial to USB) , see if it will run in WINE , look for C:\Windows>Program Files>EFILive>Drivers , you may have to "dmesg" or "lsusb" to find the Port assigned to the USB in WINE .

[Chevy366]

Okay looked and did not see a USB device in EFILive when rooting around , man EFILive works flawlessly in Linux in WINE , but no USB , not giving up will try on and off this weekend .

[Chevy366]

Read this : http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/wine/94500-serial-ports-wine.html

[Blacky]

I've never attempted to set up EFILive on Linux, but you may need to use linux drivers underneath wine to allow wine to see the ftdi USB devices. (http://www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm)
If you do, you may need to modify the linux drivers supplied by ftdi to use the correct VID and PID for EFIlive's devices.

VID=0403 PID=E4A0 for EFILive FlashScan FSP (i.e. V1)
VID=0403 PID=E4A1 for EFILive FlashScan V2
VID=0403 PID=E4A3 for EFILive AutoCal V2

Regards
Paul

[Drunkenwhippet]

I've never used EFILive yet, I'm still trying to get to that point. My goal is to use it to tune my 94 caprice classic with an LT1, using either a max232 interface or a 2 transistor interface via ALDL. I would just install windows, but I have managed to lose the hard drive adapter for this laptop, so I'm limited to running from a liveCD. (system won't boot from usb)right now I'm using puppy linux. I can start efilive v4 under wine, and poke around a little. My question is, if I'm just using an rs232 port, will efilive run fine, Since I'm not using any USB for the interface? Anyone know how wine handles rs232? laptop has onboard port, so no usb-serial adapter is needed. system is a dell P3 with 256 megs of ram, I'll likely disable the flash swap once I get everything running and am only running efilive. I'm not set on running puppy, I'll gladly run any live distro that'll cooperate with the lack of hard drive and efilive.

another question... does V7 and V8 handle OBD1 tuning via ALDL? or has it been dropped after v4? This is something that I've been wondering about. I'm assuming that all of these discussions are based around V7 and V8. Thanks for any input or guidance, even tho I'm not sure if I've really asked much. maybe my first question is "do i have any hope?"

If I had a monitor that would run on little enough power for my inverter to run, I'd drag a pc into the car and run that and windows.

[Blacky]

EFILive will attempt to write to its configuration files, so it can't be run from a CD.
EFILive V4 should run fine on a real RS232 port, it has trouble with most generic USB-Serial converters.

EFILive V4 does not support tuning. EFILive V7/V8 will most likely not support tuning for ALDL controllers, but we are considering including the ability for customers to edit EEPROM images from ALDL style controllers.
FlashScan V2 and AutoCal hardware both have ALDL scanning capability but it is not available in the V7 software. It is scheduled to be available in the V8 software.

Regards
Paul

[Drunkenwhippet]

it's all in a ramdrive, so write capability is there.

while I dont know the model number of the pcm, from what i gather it's flash based, and I know it's from the in-between years for OBD1 and OBD2. looks like paperclip trick will work but it doesnt, and orielly auto parts is the only local place i've found with a code reader compatible with it, some people refer to it as OBD1.2, not sure if this gives any more info. I thought I saw someone refer to efilive in a couple different articles i read on tuning these, maybe it was just logging.

I'll be sure to share anything that I do happen to find in regards to running efilive on a liveCD, even if efilive turns out to be not what i'm looking for.

[Chevy366]

I've never attempted to set up EFILive on Linux, but you may need to use linux drivers underneath wine to allow wine to see the ftdi USB devices. (http://www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm)
If you do, you may need to modify the linux drivers supplied by ftdi to use the correct VID and PID for EFIlive's devices.

VID=0403 PID=E4A0 for EFILive FlashScan FSP (i.e. V1)
VID=0403 PID=E4A1 for EFILive FlashScan V2
VID=0403 PID=E4A3 for EFILive AutoCal V2

Regards
Paul
Paul ,
When I run "lsusb" I get :
"Bus 002 Device 006: ID 0403:e4a1 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd"
which is the V2 and then when I run "dmesg" I get this output :
[ 5901.560031] usb 2-3: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 6
[ 5901.763727] usb 2-3: New USB device found, idVendor=0403, idProduct=e4a1
[ 5901.763740] usb 2-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[ 5901.763749] usb 2-3: Product: EFILive FlashScan V2
[ 5901.763756] usb 2-3: Manufacturer: EFILive
[ 5901.763763] usb 2-3: SerialNumber: FSV2
[ 5901.763884] usb 2-3: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
So the Vendor and product IDs are there so the Kernel is loading the correct device driver it appears , it is just not passing it to WINE .

[McRat]

Pat, with all due respect, it sounds like you're blowing way more time getting EFILive to just work under Linux than you spent "Managing & Updating" Windows, where "Stuff just works".

I told one of my friends that DOES know linux very well what you said about Windows being harder/more time consuming to administer and update than linux and his exact words where "He's Nuts".

Yeah, and hotrodding isn't necessary either. :D

Linux fixed my problem at work with the networking. Now the XP and Vista computers play together better by using a Linux file server.

It took less time to install and config, and has yet to be rebooted.

What pushed me over the edge was buying a new $$$ Win7Pro notebook, and it's a POS. Sure, it boots fast (SSD will do that), but it won't run my CAD software correct (Linux will), it keeps telling me the Bluetooth is hosed (it's not), I bought Halo for Windows (won't run on 7), etc, etc. Pakistan is of no help. It had the same "too many connections" errors when hooked to the work network.

It's a great Television though. But I already had a TV.

Ubuntu Linux 10.04 is pretty slick. It has worked with NO driver disks on all three computers I put it on. It has over 1,000 free applications with it. You plug in a printer, and it just works right away. It fits on USB stick or a single CD, and installs much faster than Windows. It will boot and run from a CD, or it will auto install right beside Windows.

No, it's not perfect. But it's easy to use, stable, and it's free. Linux is on your routers, your phones, DVR's, etc, etc. It fits where Windows won't.

[ryans1000]

I think Linux would be a huge waste of the developers time from a business stand point

[MaxPF]

Nothing hacked from a PC, it's just a custom written embedded OS by GM/Delphi.

My guess is that it is a RTOS of some kind. There are numerous commercial RTOS's out there that run on embedded microcontrollers - no sense reinventing the wheel. I have used a few RTOS's in microcontroller apps and it makes writing your firmware darn near as simple as writing a threaded app for a regular OS. It's amazing how little memory some of these RTOS's take when your used to a regular OS. There are several that are less than 10kb in size :coool:

[MaxPF]

I have been both a Solaris and a Linux systems admin. I used to use Linux exclusively on my own PC, but now I run OpenSolaris exclusively.

Linux has been good for the computer industry without a doubt, but to this day administering a large number of Linux boxes is a PITA. Linux is a moving target, and while userland apps are fairly stable, anything kernel side tends to get broken every time a new release comes out. Even Windows isn't nearly that bad. This sucks for 3rd party drivers - anytime there is a kernel change a driver recompile is almost always required. Solaris has a stable driver interface, so any changes to the underlying kernel doesn't affect the drivers plugged into it. Even Windows follows a scheme similar to this. It's logical, and I fail to understand why it has never been implemented in Linux (actually, I know why - Linus thinks it is too much overhead in the kernel and would slow things down - his opinion, not fact).

It gets worse when a new distro release decides to break userland apps. Upgrades and patches on Linux systems have to be approached with much more care in a commercial environment. By comparison, I have found Solaris and OS to be far more stable and MUCH less work to maintain vs. a Linux shop. These days, with the exception of HW driver support (which Linux has much more of than about anything out there), OpenSolaris will do anything Linux will do, and be more stable to boot. Major HW is supported under OS, but it would be nice to be able to port all the Linux drivers. Not gonna happen due to incompatible licensing though :bad: Don't get me wrong though - I still like Linux! And the BSD's, and OSX too :)

Anyway, that diatribe leads me to this one: IF you ever do a *nix port, PLEASE DON'T MAKE IT LINUX-CENTRIC!!!!!!!!! There are many, MANY, apps out there that are written on Linux systems with no regard to portability, and getting them to compile on other *nix OS's is often a massive PITA. The bad part is, there is no excuse for this. Pretty much every *nix flavor out there is POSIX compliant, or near enough. Using cross-platform API kits like wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org/) there is no excuse for this. i have written apps that compiled on Windows, Linux, and OSX with the same code. Even in the *nix world, with the exception of OSX pretty much everyone runs Gnome or KDE, so it's not like making a portable piece of software is a major hurdle. It's perfectly doable, it just needs to be done from the start.

So, I'm begging - pretty please - make any port truly portable :grin:

I suppose I should rant about Apple not extending Carbon to the 64 bit realm, effectively making it obsolete and forcing folks to port their apps to the ObjC based Cocoa, but I will let it slide for now :bad:

[MaxPF]

I think Linux would be a huge waste of the developers time from a business stand point

I agree, unless it is done as a pet project.

Also, it seems like there are a lot of enthusiasts out there that could lend a hand. Im sure EFILive is like most pieces of software, in which there are mundane portions such as the GUI's that take a lot of coding due to nonexistent protability and aren't particularly sensitive from an IP point of view, and other modules of highly proprietary code that EFILive wouldn't want anyone to have access to. The EFILive folks could ask if there are some volunteers to start a community porting project to "port" or recreate the EFILive GUI modules. All they would need to do is tell the volunteering team to recreate the Windows GUI (or outline a new one from scratch if they wish) and specify the hooks to tie in to the rest of the code.

This way, they could get free programming help without having to divulge any of the proprietary portions of their code. Also, even though there is nothing really sensitive in the GUI coding, they could still require any volunteers to sign an NDA, just as extra insurance...

[Chevy366]

MaxPF , glad to see a Unix user , OpenSolaris is pretty nice used it for a test once , not a lot different than Linux , it still used KDE and I think at one time Solaris for OpenSolaris was actually was going to use SuSE as a base (backed out and used Unix) .
I can see the demise of Windows coming soon , Google's Chrome Android OS will . once released , start to chip away at Micro$oft a lighting speeds .
Once someone gets past the Free part , yes Free Software can be just as good as the Paid For , Google Chrome will spread .
Maybe with V8 we can get a Linux version .

[Chevy366]

Not to bash to much , but : http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1724970/sophos-releases-free-shortcut-exploit-fix , http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1724197/microsoft-windows-security-flaw
Seems Micro$oft has a bug it can't fix and it allows access to the OS , and is in all Windows Kernels , so Win7 is not safe either , OH MY !
Recommendations are to install Linux as a workaround !

[N0DIH]

I am looking forward to the Chrome OS coming! Been waiting for a few years now.... :)


MaxPF , glad to see a Unix user , OpenSolaris is pretty nice used it for a test once , not a lot different than Linux , it still used KDE and I think at one time Solaris for OpenSolaris was actually was going to use SuSE as a base (backed out and used Unix) .
I can see the demise of Windows coming soon , Google's Chrome Android OS will . once released , start to chip away at Micro$oft a lighting speeds .
Once someone gets past the Free part , yes Free Software can be just as good as the Paid For , Google Chrome will spread .
Maybe with V8 we can get a Linux version .

[MaxPF]

Umm, chromium OS is really nothing but a stripped down, canned Linux for dummies. I don't see it bringing anything to the table over a regular Linux distro, and in fact I think it takes an otherwise good OS and makes it too limiting. I see computer novices outgrowing it VERY quickly, while regular users and power users will never touch it...

[Blacky]

So, I'm begging - pretty please - make any port truly portable :grin:

Agreed! I spent 10-15 years in the *nix world developing and porting a compiler/virtual machine (similar to the Java concept) that allowed proprietary code to be compiled once and run on multiple flavors of unix. Back then (the 80's) there was a lot more incompatabilities between *nix platforms. Pretty much my entire job was to port the virtual machine (written in C) software to all those *nix platforms. HPUX, OSF, AIX, DGUX, Xenix, SCO, Unisys, Solaris and some other obscure versions. So I know a thing or two about writing portable code. However, I have never had to deal with a GUI on *nix, it was all tty based.

The version 8 redesign places all the sensitive/proprietary stuff into the FlashScan firmware and the firmware exposes a stable API (documentation coming) that can be accessed by any client platform, Windows, *nix, OSX or embedded systems so long as they can connect via the USB interface. We encourage developers to write their own front ends on their platform of choice to interface with FlashScan.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

I agree, unless it is done as a pet project.

Also, it seems like there are a lot of enthusiasts out there that could lend a hand. Im sure EFILive is like most pieces of software, in which there are mundane portions such as the GUI's that take a lot of coding due to nonexistent protability and aren't particularly sensitive from an IP point of view, and other modules of highly proprietary code that EFILive wouldn't want anyone to have access to. The EFILive folks could ask if there are some volunteers to start a community porting project to "port" or recreate the EFILive GUI modules. All they would need to do is tell the volunteering team to recreate the Windows GUI (or outline a new one from scratch if they wish) and specify the hooks to tie in to the rest of the code.

This way, they could get free programming help without having to divulge any of the proprietary portions of their code. Also, even though there is nothing really sensitive in the GUI coding, they could still require any volunteers to sign an NDA, just as extra insurance...

That's pretty much the plan.
Regards
Paul

[Chevy366]

Umm, chromium OS is really nothing but a stripped down, canned Linux for dummies. I don't see it bringing anything to the table over a regular Linux distro, and in fact I think it takes an otherwise good OS and makes it too limiting. I see computer novices outgrowing it VERY quickly, while regular users and power users will never touch it...
Exactly , you have to have a version as you describe to lure Window users out . Isn't that what Ubuntu is , dumb down version of Linux , and thousands like it !
Hmmmm , novice outgrowing it quickly , how many millions still use Windows ?
I have a ported version of Chrome (Android) , test version that would boot on a regular com .
Solaris is okay , I still get e-mails from Sun wanting to know if I still am or want to use Solaris , like I said Solaris was to much like Linux to move away from Linux to it , BSD the same , slightly different , but basic the same .
Perhaps if to many Windows users taint the Linux world I will move to the Sunny side (pun) , or BSD (Berkeley OS) .

[N0DIH]

What I like about Ubuntu, easy to install, far easier than anything I have installed before, it works, gazillions of programs out there for it, all free/open source, stable as a rock.

What I don't like about Ubuntu (prob all Linux), is getting some programs to run in it is a convoluded nightmare, it isn't intuitive to anyone that I can figure out. I want to get Marathon to run in it and I just gave up, I don't see how anyone can know how to come up with all the things needed to make some of these programs to run. But yet some figure it out.

But I still like to keep it around, but rarely can I make it my main OS to run and use daily.... OSX is better, but not all there too, most of the programs I need on a daily basis are Windows based and don't run in OSX/*nix.

[Chevy366]

Almost had EFILive completely functioning in openSUSE/Wine , I keep getting a error from the HAPI about the FTDI.dll not being found , hunted around but did not see a installable FTDI chipset driver in EFILive anywhere .
Once it errors I keep getting a memory access error that continues to tally up access error tries .
SO close but yet so far , will keep messing with it when I get a chance .

[Tordne]

The FTDI drivers are in the 'C:\Program Files\EFILive\Drivers\...' structure on a normal system install. Could you get the required driver contents from there?

[Chevy366]

The FTDI drivers are in the 'C:\Program Files\EFILive\Drivers\...' structure on a normal system install. Could you get the required driver contents from there?

Yeah , checked that , seems what should be there is.
Getting close, when I get more time will tinker again.

[SSbaby]

Subscribing to new thread as I have Mac OSX (linux).

Same here! :grin:

In regards to the original question, "Why Linux"? I can easily answer that one by asking "why not?".

Seriously though, Linux is a lot faster and is a far more stable platform without any of the overheads inherent in a typical Windows OS. However, you need to work smart to get everything to work with Linux and configuring the drivers is one of the things that let the user down on some occasions.

Having said that, I regret that I bought my HP Netbook with a Windows XP OS (keeps freezing up) as I could have originally bought it with Ubuntu... but I had PCM tuning in mind later down the track... so I decided to go with Windows.

Then I read this thread and the other with Codeweaver...then had the same regrets coming back to me. :doh2:

Great thread, btw!

[joecar]

Tony,

I run EFILive on WinXP booted via Boot Camp on my MacBook... runs good (3GB usable DRAM) and I like the wide screen;

only problems are the MacBook is cumbersome in the car, and the MacBook's aluminium case is easily dented.


And I found out MacOSX is based on unix rather than linux.

[Tordne]

Mac Os X is based off of BSD actually :)

[SSbaby]

Tony,

I run EFILive on WinXP booted via Boot Camp on my MacBook... runs good (3GB usable DRAM) and I like the wide screen;

only problems are the MacBook is cumbersome in the car, and the MacBook's aluminium case is easily dented.


And I found out MacOSX is based on unix rather than linux.

Hi Joe

I wish I had a MacBook... I only have an iMac which is a desktop computer.

You got me thinking, though... I have literally sworn myself off MS products forever (at least at home) so perhaps the MacBook Air is the better overall option instead of continually mucking about with less powerful Netbooks? At least it's not as cumbersome as the other MacBooks.

Anyway, it's good to know there aren't any issues running EFILive on non-Windows systems. :rockon:

[Tordne]

We have customers that use visualization product like VMware Fusion, Parallels etc as well. I've not tested reading/flashing in pass-thru with emulated USB but can't really see any reason why it wouldn't work really.

[MaxPF]

Mac Os X is based off of BSD actually :)

Well, actually, the Mac OSX kernel is a monolithic (with pluggable module support) version of the Mach microkernel. The rest of the os is basically BSD as you said.


We have customers that use visualization product like VMware Fusion, Parallels etc as well. I've not tested reading/flashing in pass-thru with emulated USB but can't really see any reason why it wouldn't work really.

I use VirtualBox, running Win2K (due to lower memory overhead vs newer Windows versions), and I have read and flashed 411 PCM's and Gen IV Allison TCM's via the emulated USB with zero issues.

Still, a native Linux/*nix version would be nice ;)

[Tordne]

I am a Unix/Linux guy from way back. It's pretty much all I used to work with years ago actually. The only Windows systems we have (both EFILive and personally) are desktops/laptops. All our servers and backend stuff is Linux :)

I have personally tried on a few different occasions to abandon Windows for Linux (usually Ubuntu) but there are just too many thing in my day to day activities that require me to use Windows. So ultimately I would almost always have a Windows VM running, which sort of defeats the purpose somewhat in my option :)

[MaxPF]

I managed to wean myself off of Windows sometime in the late 90's, and I haven't looked back. So far, the only two apps that I need Windows for are EFILive and SolidWorks. Since i don't use either on a day-to-day basis I seldom have a VM running. Even when i do have the VM running I run the app in a window of it's own on the Linux desktop.

[swingtan]

FWIW, the "only" reason you "need" the USB drivers ATM is to flash the firmware into the V2 / Autocal and set up the PID selections for BBL. The rest can be achieved via BBL/BBR/BBF. Sure, running a live dash is extremely handy at times, but you can work around it, it's just more cumbersome. I've run ScanTool and TuneTool fine under Wine, saved the files to the SD card and all is well. Still.... Native Linux is the goal here!

[nevinsb]

I've been pretty impressed with the wine development as well, L4D2 runs great!

[SSbaby]

I'm keen to try Wine, myself. :)

What I might do as a trial is install Ubuntu Netbook edition onto a pen drive to see how my HP Mini responds with the new OS...

http://www.ubuntu.com/netbook/get-ubuntu/download.

This way, I am not actually removing my current XP OS, at least not intially. If all goes well, I'll just intall Ubuntu over my XP install and kiss the random frozen screen issue good-bye, for good.

Now I just have to get my netbook back from the sis-in-law!

[Chevy366]

That would be nice wouldn't it , Native Linux EFILive .
As others have said , long time Linux user , SuSE (openSuse) has been my OS of choice , but have used every other one at least once , some several times (BSD , FreeBSD, Sun Microsystem, and a few other Unix distros) , I still like the QNX microkernel , Linux is a monolithic kernel as well , even the Google Android (phone OS) , go figure .
My wife finally gave up on Winders as well and now my Tech Support for her PC is so much easier (almost nonexistent) , thank God Winders was driving me nuts .
As you can see , by my post I am partial to Linux .