E38 idle tuning

[hymey]

Hi Guys.

This thread I started in 2008 and I see there is over 40000 views. There has been a lot of discussion and varied opinions however it allows us to all learn more about the e38 fly by wire tuning.

I have done a lot more research and development with idle tuning and tuning e38s in general. I have new protocols to follow. I will be doing this in a pdf format for people to download starting with a basic tutorial and working up to more advanced tuning. It allows tuning much faster and easier then old methods.

If anyone needs questions answered in short term my email address is above. My ph number for Prince Performance Tuning is +61428206383.

Cheers

Joel Prince (hymey)

[MikeOD]

I'm curious to see your newer techniques. I can get the basic idle down in my car, but I still run into annoying dips and whatnot now and then.

[hymey]

Hey Mike. Its a lot simpler however I will go through it in the next week when I get on my pc!

Cheers

Joel

[Jester]

Looking forward to it Joel +1. I'm still having issues on a couple of points taming largish cams at idle.

[hymey]

Jester with large cams I suggest set injector timing at 400 degrees. In the ect table set it 400 everywhere. And the rpm rise set to zero. This allows the fuel spray to hit the back of valve before opening at low rpm points. At high rpm points its not critical. For a start do this and see if it helps. Works on 240 at 50 cams. Then I will get some info there for u regarding idle protocols in next week

[Jester]

Thanks Joel, I'll try that, at the moment I have gone the other way with injection timing removing 21* over the entire table delaying EOI for exhaust closure.

[Jester]

Jester with large cams I suggest set injector timing at 400 degrees. In the ect table set it 400 everywhere. And the rpm rise set to zero. This allows the fuel spray to hit the back of valve before opening at low rpm points. At high rpm points its not critical. For a start do this and see if it helps. Works on 240 at 50 cams. Then I will get some info there for u regarding idle protocols in next week
Best advice I have had for a long time, cheers mate, this has sorted a couple issues I was having, cold start, off idle, it's actually a pleasure to drive at low rpm now, if it wasn't for my exhaust you wouldn't think the car was cammed, just need to do slight adjustments to the vve again now. Mrs just drove the kids to school and said its a totally different car to drive, that makes me happy.

Cheers mate.

[hymey]

Awesome. Glad I could help. Injector timing is critical. If you can supply me your cam specs I can get the value better

Good work

Joel

[Jester]

Awesome. Glad I could help. Injector timing is critical. If you can supply me your cam specs I can get the value better

Good work

Joel
No worries
237/243@.050 LSA 112+2 XER lobes
16* Overlap

[hymey]

237 242 is a texas speed cam ? Thats 286 deg advertised duration. Half that is 143 degrees. Take that from 110 intake centreline. The inlet opens at minus 33 degrees btdc overlap . Add 360 to get it back to tdc fire so thats 393 degrees btdc compression for ending the injection. Then add another ten degrees on so it hits the back of the valve and atomizes before the valve opens. Thats 393 plus 10. 403 degrees is optimal. So 400 is close enough ;) . Yes vve will be out a bit. Will drive like a stocker with no surging in open loop with fueling timing and most importantly airflow tables correct.

[Jester]

Thanks Joel, yes most likely a TS cam, it's the TKII from GM Motorsports. Ok off to dial the vve in again, once again thanks mate, this has been doing my head in for the last month. If you were in Kalgoorlie I would shout you quite a few beers :)

[hymey]

All good mate. Enjoy the hot WA summer

[JohnPShoe]

I apologise for not being on here of late have had some health issues. My new email address is princeperformance@live.com.au . I check emails daily .

Kind Regards

Hymey

Glad to see you back on here. I have spent many hours working with your tutorial. If you get a second, i sent you an email this morning.

[ringram]

Looking forward to your update info mate. Ive got a couple of new projects in progress..

[bplumcrazy]

any update on the new tutorial?

[hymey]

Guys. I haven't had any access to my laptop or PC. It will be a few months until its complete

[ringram]

Google docs, who needs a laptop ;)

<joke> Haha </joke>

[hymey]

lol not on my shitty phone

[MikeOD]

hymey, my cam is 262.2 advertised duration on a 109.6 centerline. Does this mean I should zero out B1206, and then enter -1*(109.6-131.1)+360+10 or 391.5 (I'm sure 390-395 would be ok too) into B1205 and leave all other injection timing tables alone?

My cam is "small" I know...but I've got an Exedy clutch, which has a pretty light flywheel...since the engine has less damping from a heavier flywheel/clutch assembly, I think that makes the cam seem larger than it really is when I'm tuning the idle.

I really don't know if I should play with B1843 and B1845...basically, when I had the stock clutch/flywheel behind the engine, I could hear the cam itself lope, but RPM was fairly stable, and data was fairly smooth. Now that the Exedy clutch is in there, the cam lope sounds drastically different, and I notice the spark advance is never even close to smooth at idle.

If I disable all adaptive things, and use VCM controls to help it idle, I can hear the cam again, but obviously that's not the solution for a DD. I guess this would mean changing the values in B5128/5129/5130/5131 also...but I don't know where to begin there either.

It's a 2010 Camaro SS E38...I think some E38's have different table ID's...let me know if the ID numbers I posted don't make sense. I hate that this car can't idle properly...the setup isn't really crazy at all, but I've constantly struggled with it.

[RD in SD]

I have an interesting issue and after reading this entire thread several times I have not found the answer. I have an 06 Vette with a 440 LS3 and an A6, I mainly use it for road racing fun. Engine mods include stock throttle body, 102 Fast, L92 WCCH ported stage 3, 231 intake 247 exhaust .617 and .624 lift and 113 lobe centers Comp Cam, and headers. I did not use the approach in this thread because I read it after I tuned the car. I did not drill a hole yet because I don't think I need it but I maybe wrong. The car starts fine, idles well at 800, goes in and out of gear fine and everything seems to be fine except for one weird issue.

It's an automatic and when it is downshifting with the throttle off, foot on brake decelerating the engine rpm climbs between the shifts which creates jerking into the next lower gear and slightly accelerating the car as it jerks and lurches into the next gear. It does this from 4th all the way to first. OK I know you are all thinking sounds like transmission programming or transmission issue. It does it with my stock transmission tune and the modded tune and the transmission has just been rebuilt and modified and it did the exact same thing before and after the rebuild. I have played with shift pressures and other transmissions stuff with no effect. Playing with the idle settings can have some impact but I have yet to figure out what will make it go away. I think the idle is over correcting the idle and I have tried reducing those tables. If I put it in sport mode and downshift it myself manually it works fine.

I did just now try the step by step instructions set forth here by hymey with no luck but I didn't drill my throttle yet either. Since I have no idle or drive ability issues do I need to drill the throttle? When I tried the step by step procedure I got the idle to settle nicely using 1.41 in max idle B1651/2 but when I put back in the step sizes B1845 and 4 (reduced by 50%), and cranked up min idle airflow B1829 the car would not idle and I took min idle air all the way to 28 before I gave up. I did try and reduce max idle area B1651 by about 10% as a last ditch effort to my old tune that woks but that did not help either. I was thinking next I would try smoothing out min idle airflow table but have not got to it yet. Help!

[Highlander]

Go in the transmission tune and disable torque management for downshift.. that will get rid of the rev matching.

[HiPower]

28min idle is wayyyyy high, try around 10 and go up or down +-3/4 , it should want something around there.
Also note, you will need to let the car idle for a bit after flashing with slight revs and such to work with the idle relearn.

From my experience, no matter what changes, the the first engine start will idle terribly due to the relearn.

[MikeOD]

B1651/1652 are hard limits on throttle percentage. It doesn't matter how high a number you put in B1829, it won't go above 1651/1652 and will not be able to run when cold. That's the flaw in the drill a hole method. If you don't want to drill a hole (I won't drill one) the method won't work.

[RD in SD]

Go in the transmission tune and disable torque management for downshift.. that will get rid of the rev matching.

I did try this before with no luck. It does not appear to the be the same as rev matching. My stock 06 tune does not have rev matching becasue its an 06 and it does the jerky downshift thing with that tune as well. The modified tune for my modified transmission is from an 08 with rev matching and it also has the same jerky downshift problem.

On another note when in sport mode the rev matching does work but the 3-2 shift and the 2-1 shift it rev matches and then shifts after the rev so no benefit. In other words the shift is to slow to take advantage of the rev match. So I need to delay the rev match or speed up the shift. I have been unable to figure out either one.

[RD in SD]

28min idle is wayyyyy high, try around 10 and go up or down +-3/4 , it should want something around there.
Also note, you will need to let the car idle for a bit after flashing with slight revs and such to work with the idle relearn.

From my experience, no matter what changes, the the first engine start will idle terribly due to the relearn.

It is possible that I did not try long enough but I did try it a few times. I am quite confident that I hit the maximum setting on min idle airflow B1829 long before I got to 28 g/sec and it was just reading from the max idle B1652 number of 1.41. But what is weird is that with the corrections at 50% of stock it still would not idle maybe I just need to keep trying until it learns. Also This is not a speed density tune I am using the MAF which after reading here some more might be the problem?

[RD in SD]

B1651/1652 are hard limits on throttle percentage. It doesn't matter how high a number you put in B1829, it won't go above 1651/1652 and will not be able to run when cold. That's the flaw in the drill a hole method. If you don't want to drill a hole (I won't drill one) the method won't work.

I agree with you. I think I hit the max probably at around 14 or 15 g/sec in B1829 and it was using B1652 max idle area instead. But what I don't get is why it would not idle with just the correction turned on and B1829 maxed out? The step size tables B1844/5 are 50% of stock as recomended. Seems like from everything I read here it should be idling even if B1829 hit its max. Is there a chance that at 28 g/sec it was not maxed out and I need to go further? Maybe I just did not give it time to learn? How much time do I need to give it? Why won't the method work without the hole, what I read in hymey's posts was that it can only allow a 4% adjustment which he went on to say later was not a problem in big cube engines with small throttle bodies. Can I achieve the desired results adjusting B1650 max ETC area as suggested by some here? At some point I am going to upgrade to a 102mm throttle body and MAF and would like to avoid drilling my stock one if I can. After all the car idles fine I am just trying to eliminate this other downshifting issue.

[PRAY]

237 242 is a texas speed cam ? Thats 286 deg advertised duration. Half that is 143 degrees. Take that from 110 intake centreline. The inlet opens at minus 33 degrees btdc overlap . Add 360 to get it back to tdc fire so thats 393 degrees btdc compression for ending the injection. Then add another ten degrees on so it hits the back of the valve and atomizes before the valve opens. Thats 393 plus 10. 403 degrees is optimal. So 400 is close enough ;) . Yes vve will be out a bit. Will drive like a stocker with no surging in open loop with fueling timing and most importantly airflow tables correct.

Wait a minute. I thought we all agreed that you had to add to the base of 490-220 the difference from the stock cam to the new cam. I.E. My cam at .050" opens 28* earlier than the stock cam. Therefor I add 28* to the stock table that trims from 490-220. I now get 518-248. Where are you getting the solid number from and why are we subtracting now? Wouldn't that put injector timing too late after the valve opens if we subtract from the stock table since it is set up to End Of Injector Timing before the Intake valve opens stock? When I add the cam timing difference I have to pull a ton of fuel at idle. This to me says that I am not wasting fuel any more down an open intake valve. I understand your math but it is a little hard based off of advertised. I will have to go look at my cam card again. Are you not compensating for ECT and IVT any more either with one solid number? What am I missing?

[240sxpooter]

The biggest issue I had on my most recent tuning job involving a cammed 2012 Camaro was Idle with AC on and Idle speed dropping to much after a free rev.

After playing with B5157 I was able to reduce the idle hunting , Timing drop during AC kicking on , and idle dropping down during throttle blip.
18510

[MikeOD]

The biggest issue I had on my most recent tuning job involving a cammed 2012 Camaro was Idle with AC on and Idle speed dropping to much after a free rev.

After playing with B5157 I was able to reduce the idle hunting , Timing drop during AC kicking on , and idle dropping down during throttle blip.
18510

I might do just this...I'm very tired of fighting the idle in my car with this flywheel...makes me never want to drive it.

[LastCall]

Wow, what a great read!

Sounds like E38 Idle Tuning has come a long way through the years. Posting here in case the problem I experience may help other (assuming a solution of course!).

One simple question - Are you selecting "Idle Relearn Reset" after each new tune that is flashed?

Now the problem - I have almost 12 grams of idle air, and much more cranking. Car fires right up, but then starts sputtering and dies out. Give it a little gas and the idle will settle and it will not stall again. The issue mostly happens on hot starts, and when starting to move. Seems like timing and TP are not moving erratic, so not sure what it could be. It doesn't seem like a max idle hard limit, because it is going to almost 23.7% TP on decel and key on engine off. I went for a 20 minute ride after getting it to stay running, and did not have any stalling issues, ran fine through a parking lot with minimal surging. The idle seems a bit high as I'm commanding 900 and getting 950-975, but I would think that mush air would be causing a much higher idle with more timing correction. I did 0 out 0-48 RPM corrections (low, high, park, in gear) to avid erratic timing, so that is part of it.

Specs on combo:
LS2 with MS4 Cam 239/242, .649"/.600", 110 LSA
Long tube headers
Bosch Green Top injectors (42#)
FAST 92 MM manifold
Ls3 Throttle Body
5 speed Tremec

[Tre-Cool]

have you played with your eoit? a cam like that with such a short lsa is probably throwing a fair bit of fuel straight out the pipe.

[LastCall]

have you played with your eoit? a cam like that with such a short lsa is probably throwing a fair bit of fuel straight out the pipe.

I did play with it, I took 25 out of the entire table (shifted it down). After you posted, I looked at what Hymey posted about it, in this thread. He mentioned 400 in the B1205 table (ECT Injection Timing) and Zeroing out the B1206 (RPM Injection Timing). So I am off by a considerable amount in the ECT table and need to zero out the RPM table. Going to try that. Seems like a pretty big adjustment though. About 2X the original values at warm temps (154 F and up). Wondering if I should scale it the high number, right now I have 465 in cold temps, so maybe going down to 65 across the board?

What role does that play in hot starts?

[Tre-Cool]

I've found once you get the eoit set and find good mixtures/timing base. even cold to hot starts won't vary to much. using hymey's method i've gotten a high comp 402 motor idling at 750rpm with a lot more vacuum than another tuner that was using a higher idle with less vac & because it was an auto car it made a big difference to brake assist when in gear.

[LastCall]

Thanks for responding back. So you have a flat 400 thought your ECT injection timing table and zeros on your rpm based injection table?

[Tre-Cool]

correct. same value for the entire map. I don't always use 400 though it varies based on cam etc.

[LastCall]

Cool, I'm going to give that a shot. Based on the math, the MS4 should be 403. So I'll try 400 and go from there.

[bubba68ss]

I have a small cam in my 5.3, 212 218 214lsa. With stock tune it would fire up cold but idle wouldn't flare up like it used to. Once warm it wouldn't start without multiple tries. I started playing around with the min airflow tables and I got it to work but I knew it wasn't right. I was directed to this thread and read it all twice. I then tried following the steps on page 3 from hymey. Here's what I have done:

At first I drilled a 3.5mm hole, set max idle air to 1.10, maxed out min idle airflow, zeroed out corrections and then warmed it up. At first my timing with negative so I pulled the max idle air (both of them) down and down to damn near .65 before I got my desired idle (720) and timing of about 16*. I ASSUME this is right? Or does that number seem too low?

Then I populate the correction tables to 80% of stock values, set min idle airflow table to 14 across the board. I start it up and this is where I get confused. I am supposed to be looking for idle trim after 10-15 seconds? I don't even know what I am supposed to be looking for. I see TP at about 18.8 but it just sets there. Once in a while I will see it blip around in .4 increments but never when I am looking for it.

Perhaps I am also a little confused coming from the ls1 technology... this e38 isn't as intuitive. I'd like to learn though. Dumb question, but in my mind, using these steps, I am trying to find an operating range for the idle control? If so, can someone elaborate on that a tad?

Where I stand now... It's running (cold start seems a bit sluggish) and seems to run great. As I'm slowing a stop I can feel the truck try to accelerate just a bit. If I shift into neutral while stopping the idle flares up to about 1200 RPM's (which may explain the acceleration while in gear) until I stop then it settles back down.

I'd really like to get this close enough to be happy with it.

[Naf]

Tune plz

Also discribe your restarts a little better, like it starts but struggles to get to revs or struggles to start but gets to revs once started.

[bubba68ss]

I went back to square one. bumped the min idle air tables up about 2, bumped idle 100 across the board and bumped startup airflow. It starts great, hot or cold and runs great. The ONLY thing I don't like is when coming to a stop it wants to rev up just before I stop completely. Almost lunges forward a bit. Which parameter do I need to adjust for that? I haven't altered my max idle area cells yet. They are set to around 2.4, both of them. Should I lower them? Just one?

[LastCall]

I went back to square one. bumped the min idle air tables up about 2, bumped idle 100 across the board and bumped startup airflow. It starts great, hot or cold and runs great. The ONLY thing I don't like is when coming to a stop it wants to rev up just before I stop completely. Almost lunges forward a bit. Which parameter do I need to adjust for that? I haven't altered my max idle area cells yet. They are set to around 2.4, both of them. Should I lower them? Just one?

Try taking some idle air out (start with 1 gram) of the min idle airflow table at the RPM the flair is happening out.

[bubba68ss]

Ok I will try that.

What impact does and B1652 have?

[LastCall]

I'm on my phone but B1652 should be max idle air for drive conditions. It's the hard limit the blade can open in effective area, regardless of min idle values. This could help with the flair if you close the cap between min idle air values and max area.

[bubba68ss]

Does efilive have 'minimum idle rpm vs vehicle speed'? I see TC has it but how important is it for idle tuning?

[Hib Halverson]

I'd like to thank all the real tuners on this thread who've contributed such great info. It was very helpful in making a noticeable improvement in the idle quality of the LS7 in my '12 Z06.

Thank you all.

[joecar]

Hi Hib, hope you're doing well, good to hear your car runs well.

[Hib Halverson]

Hi Hib, hope you're doing well, good to hear your car runs well.

From a calibration standpoint, I've got the idle and part throttle driveability much better then when I picked-the car up after the engine work.

The engine has a terrible oil consumption problem, however, and I'm having a dialog about the problem via email with Katech, the guys who built the motor.

[joecar]

Let us know how it goes.

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks Joel (Hymey), Swingtan, Ringram and other contributors to this thread
I am just finishing off an 06 Z06 with 239/251 @ 0.050 on a 111.5LS cam, FAST intake, Headers, cat delete and exhaust with factory mufflers.
The car made 570hp/510ftlbs at the tire, pretty stout :)
I have done a bunch of E38's but this one had me challenged on the idle and startup. Going through this has it nearly sorted.
I haven't drilled the blade or modified B1650 yet.
It idles great, steady at 850RPM and likely would idle lower.
The only challenges I have at this point are a bit too long crank at hot start (haven't modified B1602 so am going to kick it up a bit) and the car surges at part throttle below about 220.
For the surge is the B5122 Coast Down Spark the most likely culprit or should I be looking elsewhere.
Thanks
Eldon

[TurboCamaro]

22541
22542
22543
The car works amazingly on the road course however the surging below 2000 RPM is irritating. When it is surging the throttle blade and the timing can be seen to move in the logs but I am chasing my tail what is driving it. Cal and logs attached. Any thoughts.

[joecar]

Hmmm, might be spark advance related.

[TurboCamaro]

Hi Joe
I think it is but don't seem to be able to see what is driving it.
I have smoothed the main spark tables, the idle tables and the Coast Down in the areas where it seems it could be occuring and it still will move 20 degrees instantly than come back.
Here's a couple screen shots
I have changed the cal some from before
2254422545

[joecar]

ok, I'll take a closer look tonite when I get home.

[TurboCamaro]

That would be awesome Joe :) Thanks
Here are the latest logs and cal. It is getting better but still not right.
In my goofing around it wants to die as soon as I step on the clutch, LOL. People say this tuning thing is easy. There is so much intertwined.

[hymey]

That would be awesome Joe :) Thanks
Here are the latest logs and cal. It is getting better but still not right.
In my goofing around it wants to die as soon as I step on the clutch, LOL. People say this tuning thing is easy. There is so much intertwined.
22546
22547
22548With the later os, the hard limit in the tune for idle has been increased from 60 to 200. This has been in efilive for sometime. It used to only be in HP tuners. So I would not drill a hole unless the cam is very big. Log your P and I throttle airflow values. These are very handy.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[TurboCamaro]

Sorry for my ignorance but what are you meaning by "hard limit in the tune for idle"
Unfortunately we already put a hole in the blade on this one trying to get the surging out of the idle.
It is a pretty serious cam shaft: 239/251 .675/.675 on a 111.5LS
This was supposed to be a road race deal now wants to drive it on the street. I would have spread the centers a bit.

[hymey]

Sorry for my ignorance but what are you meaning by "hard limit in the tune for idle"
Unfortunately we already put a hole in the blade on this one trying to get the surging out of the idle.
It is a pretty serious cam shaft: 239/251 .675/.675 on a 111.5LS
This was supposed to be a road race deal now wants to drive it on the street. I would have spread the centers a bit.That's OK if you drill a hole. It won't matter, regardless what anyone says. The fitting in the manifold is basically a hole. If you block that , that changes the idle aswell.

The hard limit Is the highest throttle opening the pcm can allow during idle and coast conditions.I don't have my laptop on me , only when I am tuning....

If the idle is correct. Small throttle openings is IGN timing, pulse width ( you will need to be in open loop with that cam and speed density) injector timing helps, you can move this around for drivability. Idle airflow numbers play a huge part in drivability. It will all fall into place if everything is correct.....

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks
I have quite a bit of injection timing in it, 450deg I think, have moved it around some.
When you talk idle airflow numbers are you specifically talking minimum airflow or others as well.

I can see the ignition timing moving, swings +20Deg, but don't see where it's coming from. I have the spark idle compensation reduced quite a bit and allow the RPM to move some before it compensates.

When you say open loop do you think AFs are affecting this as the trims seem to be OK.

[hymey]

If the timing swings dig a bit deeper there.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks :)
Any ideas what I may be missing.
I ensured the idle base spark, Coast Down Spark and Main Hi Oct & Lo Oct Spark are flat in the areas it is surging. The Spark Idle compensation are significantly less than the amount the spark is moving. Are there pids to see Spark Idle Compensation and if it is using the Idle, coast or main spark tables. Or other?

[LastCall]

Thanks :)
Any ideas what I may be missing.
I ensured the idle base spark, Coast Down Spark and Main Hi Oct & Lo Oct Spark are flat in the areas it is surging. The Spark Idle compensation are significantly less than the amount the spark is moving. Are there pids to see Spark Idle Compensation and if it is using the Idle, coast or main spark tables. Or other?

I took a quick look at your log and cal. I believe the timing fluctuation is from the difference in timing between your base idle/coast down tables (~12-15 degrees) and the high octane (40 degrees). Any time you are on the gas it will jump to 40 and then drop to 12-15 when you left off. I usually try to match the high octane and coast down tables so there are not huge jumps in timing when you let off the gas and are moving. I also leave the timing correction close to stock, as it works pretty well to control idle speed. I made some changes to your cal, see attached.

[joecar]

I got home late... thanks hymey and LastCall for your replies, I appreciate you help :)

[statesman]

This is a customer's car, right?

[auspeed]

With the later OS, the hard limit in the tune for idle has been increased from 60 to 200.

By hard limit you mean the throttle can be pushed open further for idle via the corresponding parameters?

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks Hymey and Lastcall for the input.
Thought I would update.
I tried your cal Lastcall and the surging got worse. It did pull the timing down nicely. Amazed me as I thought you were onto something.
So I logged all the EST pids and found that it is Torque Reduction Spark Retard that is pulling the timing however I still don't see what is causing it. I even maxed BTM and Throttle Tip In on the odd chance.
22550
22551
22552

[joecar]

Try setting BTM Limit to min (i.e. most negative).

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks Joe
Still surging

I have spent a ton of time on this. Earlier today I reread this entire thread as well as any other info I could find and thought I had it and was just being a dummy and not remembering some of the steps in this thread. Or so I thought, I am at a loss.
I finally eliminated the SEMRET by 0ing B2522 Torque Reduction Max. I am a bit concerned this will reduce the traction control any ideas?

I ended up with redoing the Min Idle Air and Max Idle Air B1651 and B1652. I was thinking I had missed and that if I put B1651 real low like 0.7 or 0.6 it would stop the surging as it wouldn't allow it to go into idle mode. But this seems to also control the idle air max at idle in neutral.
I have even gone so far as putting it into Open Loop with no short or long terms and setting the MAF to come in at 1000RPM.

I am at a loss as to where to go from here.
Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

[joecar]

Which V7 build version are you running...?

[TurboCamaro]

HI Joe
V7.5.24
Is there anyway to see/log the idle airflow like commanded air, actual air, Integral, Proportional, etc

[nick123]

How do you see so many frames in the log . I can only see like 100 frames when i log...how do you squish them?
What idle speed should I shoot for on a stock cam?
Reason I ask is the closer I get to 550rpm using B1652 to reduce idle speed the rougher is seems to idle.
I zeroed 1845 and 1843
63 g/s in b1829
First start after idle trim reset ....runaway idle to 1000rpm
Used 1852 to bring idle down started with 1.1 went down to .75 still 630rpm
Ran best at .8 702rpm
It's too much rpm tho I think 702 it's a stock cam...
Should I zero 5130 my timing is fluctuating between 3and9 degrees...
Should I command more base spark b1504

How do I know if I need to add or subtract from 1652 if my spark advance is lower than what is commanded in b5104

Or just change b 1821 to a higher rpm and hope that 5128 5129 5130 5131 don't disrupt timing while trying to dial the idle air mix in?

[Naf]

If you are runnin a stock cam, why are you messing with the settings?

Start from stock and massage it smoother. Idle 2 is when you are pressing on the brake, and idle 1 is when you idle in park. You will have to adjust the throttle follower to be just below your final airflow. it will cause the rpm to scream (B1604) lower this then adjust the min airflow, and if you are stockish, go for 600-750rpm at 18-22 deg of timing advance.

For logging there is a setting you can adjust, go to edit, then properties,and click on the logging tab. Increase the frames there

I have a moderate cam and i use most of the stock settings, just allowed it to breathe a little more and fluctuate a little less. My only problem is when i shift out of gear into park the rpm drops from 725rpm to 400 then fluctuates. Its a work in progress.

[statesman]

63 g/s in b1829

Why did you do that?

[Naf]

Why did you do that?

He is followin the procedures written here, he is tryin to find his sweet spot for idle 1&2 without any interference from min airflow.

He doesnt need to do this if he is runnin a mild cam. The min airflow just needed to be adjusted

[statesman]

Naf, thanks for that explanation... but I was asking nick123 that question to see if he has any understanding of what he's doing or if he's just blindly following the procedure. Yeah, he probably doesn't need to do this with a mild cam but it's his choice.

[nick123]

Naf, thanks for that explanation... but I was asking nick123 that question to see if he has any understanding of what he's doing or if he's just blindly following the procedure. Yeah, he probably doesn't need to do this with a mild cam but it's his choice.

Yeah I'm planning on adding a cam shortly probably a rcr dragmaster. I understand maxing out min idle air B1829 will cause the ecm to disregard minimum idle limits essentially doing away with the lower hard limit.

[nick123]

[QUOTE=nick123;252663]the closer I get to 550rpm using B1652 to reduce idle speed the rougher is seems to idle.
I zeroed 1845 and 1843
63 g/s in b1829
First start after idle trim reset ....runaway idle to 1000rpm
Used 1852 to bring idle down started with 1.1 went down to .75 still 630rpm
Ran best at .8 702rpm

Ok so I kept going
.6 in B1652 680 rpm
.5 and it hits target rpm right away dosen't slowly idle down while cutting timing... timing barely spiking above commanded
.4 sputters adds allot of timing 32 deg
.53 starts just over commanded rpm slowly idles down while cutting some timing then adds timing back after reaching 550rpm

I drive around like this for a day added some timing 25 deg adds some rasp...idles around nice in parking lots and low speed cornering. Before with stock settings it would hang in 3rd and do a firm 3-2 downshift at about 25 to 30 kmhr super annoying...

So the problem now is cold starting it at .53
.53 sputters
.6 a bit better but wont stay running
.7 same here
.8 stays running but throws code (cold start enrichment)
.9 throws code
1.0 no code
This was all done cold and with B1829 maxed out and 1843 and 1845 zeroed.
At 1.0 in B 1852 it idles at about 750 and pushing 8 to 9 per second
I add the 1843 back and change 1845 increasing g/s in negative idle areas up to 0 at 0 and decrease g/s in positive idle areas.

[statesman]

Yeah I'm planning on adding a cam shortly probably a rcr dragmaster.

What mods have you already done?

[nick123]

Kooks headers
3inch exhaust
Aem intake
Solo mufflers
Smaller harmonic balancer

So I'm just reading this thread more and I'm confused do you set 1651 and 1652 back to factory after building the 1829 table out? I set up a map in v8...23419

[nick123]

Kooks headers
3inch exhaust
Aem intake
Solo mufflers
Smaller harmonic balancer

So I'm just reading this thread more and I'm confused do you set 1651 and 1652 back to factory afterbuilding the 1829 table out? I set up a map in v8...23419

[statesman]

Kooks headers

Long tubes?

[nick123]

Long tubes?

No the ones that come with the hi flow cats
Shorties 1 7/8 with 3inch collector
And a 3.27 Camaro rear diff

Do you put your B1651 and 1652 back to stock after tuning theB1829 table or...

do you leave1651 and 1652 slightly above your target idle and let it learn down

[statesman]

Do you put your B1651 and 1652 back to stock after tuning theB1829 table or...

do you leave1651 and 1652 slightly above your target idle and let it learn down

I don't think you fully understand the purpose of hymey's procedure.

The answer to your question is in step 4 of the procedure...




Step 4.

We have established correct desired airflow by using our max idle area to find it. Now we have it right we can slightly increase max idle area. This allows the pcm to learn and trim within a fine limit and allows perfection of idle in all conditions cold and hot start, winter and summer, Also full lock, with a/c on in gear and nice throttle feel with no surging or overshoot.

I have found over time by tuning a variety of e38 combos from blown to 240s cams on tight lsa to baby cams that an extra 4% add on is sufficient.

So if we first found max idle area for correct idle was 1.10 , our final figure will be 1.14.

This allows more more air at cold start, The factory pcm adjustment will increase min idle air at cold ect by a multiplier. But we need to ensure that we have enough min idle air at cold start to get a nice idle cold. Cold start enrichment here is very important but that's another topic.

Add 0.04 to the figure, If it is not enough add 0.02 more. But generally 0.04 is enough with good enriched afrs cold off 13:1.

This will get your idle correct. Small changes will be required depending on combo and pcm cal. But overall there all similiar outcomes. Max idle area and min idle area always vary from car to car hence why its so important to do a custom tune on each vehicle.

[hymey]

Hi guys, instead of using the max idle area I now use the tables B1703 and B1704, these are hard upper and lower limits. As mentioned , when I first started this procedure these values were not present, eventually they come in, the top value in the earlier versions was 60 then increased to 200, therefore a hole is not required with this higher upper limit and can be experimented with , with the earlier OS which had 60 at the upper limit.

Generally what I find works well , is I run idle timing around 13-15 degrees , (pending on cam). I set the B1704 from 5 to 50 and B1703 from 200 to 90 and run min idle airflow around 13 g/s to 1200 rpm then sweep upwards. Also setup cranking maps to run a bit less then 13, once hot. You will find this is fairly close.

If the engine is starving for air cold, raise the 90 value up, the 50 will act as a lower limit and if it needs less air you can drop this, some motors end up around 55 and 85, some 50 /90.

I also use the B1846 table and at the 800 to 1000 mark I set this to 100/110 and blend it back down either side. (experiment with this)

I can pretty well drop these values in any E38 for a cammed engine and it will be close, if the timing is a bit low at commanded idle rpm (say 850 rpm and it is 8 degrees timing), drop down min idle airflow a bit at a time, say 0.2 g/s until its close. You will find it may want to dip faster then. You will see the hard lower limit of 50 preventing the throttle close lower again. You can experiment lowering this aswell, the last 3 I tuned all ended up the same.

Note - if you have your idle already setup or throttle plate drilled , These values will be lower again, simply run them at say 50 and 55 and log the airflow and see where it is tracking ,it prevents the requirement of locking out airflow and is a much faster method. Once you work out where it likes to idle , drop the min value down lower and set the max value 30 higher to start with and creep upwards. It will learn very fast in tight parameters, simply log the dynamic airflow and watch the TP% and adjust the min idle air until it is close and again move up/down slightly pending on what it likes.

Regards

Joel

[Tre-Cool]

Nice update Joel.

I have the idle pretty well nailed in my own car, so i'll have a play around.

I had been setting the 1703 & 1704 to match the non dtc codes values for a while.

What I have found strange & makes me wonder how the min airflow values are truly calculated out/from. As different OS cals use different B1602 (Airflow Correction Coolant Multiplier) values along with under/over correction multipliers.

Example: Logging Dynair ecu says 14g/sec for 800rpm idle

so enter in 14 into the 800 rpm column, if the multiplier for 92c is .29 is the actual min value still 14 or lower? I think it's a lower value as I've found that if i change the multiplier to 1 the car will idle really high and want to pull timing out to get idle rpm down.

Put it back to the lower multiplier and it's bang on again for blade position and spark timing.

[hymey]

Nice update Joel.

I have the idle pretty well nailed in my own car, so i'll have a play around.

I had been setting the 1703 & 1704 to match the non dtc codes values for a while.

What I have found strange & makes me wonder how the min airflow values are truly calculated out/from. As different OS cals use different B1602 (Airflow Correction Coolant Multiplier) values along with under/over correction multipliers.

Example: Logging Dynair ecu says 14g/sec for 800rpm idle

so enter in 14 into the 800 rpm column, if the multiplier for 92c is .29 is the actual min value still 14 or lower? I think it's a lower value as I've found that if i change the multiplier to 1 the car will idle really high and want to pull timing out to get idle rpm down.

Put it back to the lower multiplier and it's bang on again for blade position and spark timing.

Trecool , yes I have found that, GMs weird way of doing things, the low value decimal multiplier has to stay.

A good give away is cranking idle air and corresponding TB percentage. Change the cranking idle air and watch the percentage change. Then while idle tuning you may have the limits set tight around 55 / 57 for say and notice you would have a certain idle air value. Take note of the idle airflow logging and also the percentages and then while logging cranking you can see what's happening. I find I usually have say about 1 g/s less in cranking idle air then min idle airflow but I like the PID to trim down a touch rather then up as it stops the idle dropping to fast as you pull up.

I have noticed more the way it works in HP and I can see it all builds from a min value and integrals add to that value.

A good experiment is logging cranking and playing with that then you know what is exactly what.

Once you have it close , with those limits , I find dropping min idle air value only 0.2 make A a big difference in the way the idle settles when you pull up or drive off. It helps a lot with drivability .

I have also seen statements on websites stating it has nothing to do with idle. This is untrue as you found from the multiplier .

The last 3 / 4 cars actually all had varied combos and all ended up the same values. One had a 227 239 114, 2 had small cams and the other was a high comp engine with a 229 240 109 . All had same values.

The trick is keeping those limits close. I've been doing it this way for a while too I just have not been online.

The PID can learn much faster and work better in its correct range.

Regards

Joel

[Tre-Cool]

So with my combo.

416ci - 226/242@116
FDFI2650 with 102mm
3200 stall
Target idle rpm = 850 in P/N & In-gear then 875 from 8kph & above.
Idle Spark set to 14 degree's

At the moment I'm at 30 for min & 90 for max & it's that good i don't think i'll bother changing it from here. i did initially try a 60-90 mix but it would cruise with no throttle because it wasn't dipping into closed throttle or coast down spark.

It seem's to have mellowed the idle trimming out big time & corrects for any dip from load (AC & steering) pretty quick. I haven't bothered touching the torque reserve table though & have left it zero'd out.

I'm going to try a slight trim of the min-idle table as it did move from 18% slowly down to 16% over 10-12 seconds when i pulled up to set of traffic lights in gear & it's trimming spark down ever so slightly. however i also forgot i turned the AC off, so it wasn't cooling my supercharger water down either.

23433

23434

Something i've been playing with big time on this car is the pedal demand table, i've dulled the absolute shit out of it down low to keep it driving in a straight line and work as a built in traction/torque limiter. otherwise it'll blow the tyres off all the time if your not careful. it'll make 18psi from 2400rpm if i let it have 100% etctp.

23435

[hymey]

So with my combo.

416ci - 226/242@116
FDFI2650 with 102mm
3200 stall
Target idle rpm = 850 in P/N & In-gear then 875 from 8kph & above.
Idle Spark set to 14 degree's

At the moment I'm at 30 for min & 90 for max & it's that good i don't think i'll bother changing it from here. i did initially try a 60-90 mix but it would cruise with no throttle because it wasn't dipping into closed throttle or coast down spark.

It seem's to have mellowed the idle trimming out big time & corrects for any dip from load (AC & steering) pretty quick. I haven't bothered touching the torque reserve table though & have left it zero'd out.

I'm going to try a slight trim of the min-idle table as it did move from 18% slowly down to 16% over 10-12 seconds when i pulled up to set of traffic lights in gear & it's trimming spark down ever so slightly. however i also forgot i turned the AC off, so it wasn't cooling my supercharger water down either.

23433

23434

Something i've been playing with big time on this car is the pedal demand table, i've dulled the absolute shit out of it down low to keep it driving in a straight line and work as a built in traction/torque limiter. otherwise it'll blow the tyres off all the time if your not careful. it'll make 18psi from 2400rpm if i let it have 100% etctp.

23435


Nice mate

I generally find the same 60 is a bit to high. All different but generally 50 is pretty close to the bottom but less will work fine too.

Sounds like min idle air is about 0.5 sec to high. However I don't mind it when they settle like that.

Cheers

[Tre-Cool]

i ended up pulling out .2 across the board and that seems to be good enough.

[Yellow05C6]

A friend had RPM in Delaware install their Stage 3 cam/head/etc. package in a 2008 Z06. They won’t share the cam specs with me. It has a very choppy idle. Average MAP is 75 kPa at 870 RPM with only a few kPa variation. He is happy with the car except when he shuts the engine off, it does not quit immediately, but pops and crackles for perhaps another 1 to 2 seconds. So I have a few questions: When you shut the engine off, does the ECM just kill the injectors; or, both injectors and coils? And, if only the injectors are turned off, could the run-on be caused by fuel clinging to port walls being ingested then ignited by the spark plugs? If that is the case, can the run-on be improved by making the numbers in the Evaporation Factor table smaller?

[Hib Halverson]

It's my opinion that, since "Race Proven Motorsports" in Delaware won't give out the cam specs, that's a good sign that people shouldn't deal with them. Heck even Katech and Lingenfelter publishes their cam specs.

We can read its web site description about its "Stage 3", listen/watch some video footage then draw some conclusions. First, they advertise the package includes "custom dyno tune", so you know that while the wide-open throttle may be well-tuned, unless they spent hours on a load-bearing dynamometer, idle and part throttle have likely received little attention. Second, that the car has a "choppy idle" and that "RPM" feels the need to use a set of "660 dual valve springs" tells me the camshaft has got to be pretty radical. That explains your friend's rough and possibly unstable idle and also tells me that, to get the idle and part throttle reasonably drivable, would take a lot of calibration work...far more than a customer is likely to get during a chassis dyno session. If you listen to the videos on RPMs' site, the both cars' idle is really rough and unstable. That tells me the cams are radical and the idle needs plenty of cal work.

As for what happens when you press the ign. button to shut off the engine, I don't know all aspects of that, but what stops the engine is the ignition system being turned off, ie: voltage to the coils primary side is zero and, thus, there's no spark. The fuel pump is also shut off which means little or no fuel flow after the ign. voltage to the pump is cut. Injectors are normally closed so, once the injectors are no longer pulsed, there's no fuel flowing unless the injectors are leaking, which is very easy to diagnose if you have a fuel pressure gauge.

If, after the ign. is shut off and the fuel is shut off, the engine popping and crackling afterwards is a real head-scratcher because there is no spark. Now it is possible that the chamber walls, valve heads and plugs are carbon-fouled and, after shutdown, carbon residue glowing on the chamber walls and plug tips is igniting a small amount of fuel leaking from faulty injectors, but if all those problems exist, that engine must be pretty screwed up.

What do the plugs look like when he pulls them? Are they carbon fouled, ie have soft, black, sooty residue on them?

I would suggest diagnosing any problems with leaking injectors or with carbon deposits, first, and then changing the cal if necessary, but, again, to get idle and part throttle right in an engine with such a radical camshaft, a lot of work by an experienced calibrator is going to be required....far more than one would typically receive in just a chassis dyno session by the engine builder.

I have a '12 ZO6 with a Katech-built engine in it which has a far less aggressive camshaft than what I think "RPM" uses in their "Stage 3". The car came from Katech making great WOT power and torque but the idle and part throttle cal. was awful. I have spent dozens of hours over several years attempting to get idle and part throttle drivability to a place I feel is closer to "optimized".

If I was that customer, I'd have taken the car back to this "RPM" and tell them to fix this f'ing car.

Lastly, looking at the videos of two C6 ZO6es on their chassis dyno one made 620 at the tire and the other made 635, which, is indeed impressive, but the idle of those cars was really rough and surging. Also, on the second car, the dyno's AFR data says at WOT the engine is running at 13.3:1. OMG, that is pretty damn lean. If the fuel has 8-10% ethanol in it (as do most pump gas and even some unleaded racing gasolines), that AFR would be scary-lean.

[In-Tech]

Spot on post! I've fixed plenty of idle and part throttle issues from other "tuners" over the years. As mentioned, WOT is the easiest part. :doh2:

[Yellow05C6]

Thanks, I'll check the plugs. I also have the ability to test for leaking injectors. Don't take lack of further info in the near term as a lack of interest. This is but one of about a dozen projects and it is not highest on my priority list.:good:

[Hib Halverson]

Thanks, I'll check the plugs. I also have the ability to test for leaking injectors. Don't take lack of further info in the near term as a lack of interest. This is but one of about a dozen projects and it is not highest on my priority list.:good:

First, run the fuel pressure test in the FSM. If the system won't hold pressure, I'd pull the injectors and have them tested by an injector service. Replace as necessary.
Pull the plugs and inspect the tips for carbon fouling.

Good luck

[Hib Halverson]

First, let me say I'm not real active on this forum, but I am very active on the Corvette Forum's C6 ZO6/ZR1 forum and because of that, I have read lots of posts about problems calibrating LS7s with big cams. I would say that, for the type of motorsport you are doing, that RPM B-3 camshaft is way too "big". Calibration, even real good calibration, can be only modestly successful in "fixing" problems created by the wrong cam selection. If the cam selection is faulty to begin with, even a really good calibrator won't be able to fix drivability in the low mid-range, such as where in its RPM range your engine is running during the open road events you enter.

IMO, your only choice is to accept less WOT top end performance for better mid-range and low-mid-range torque and drivability. You said 585/500 which, I assume, is at the tire. If we assume 12-15% for parasitic loss that's 644-688-hp at the flywheel. My guess is you need to lower your target to 610-635 at the flywheel and also lower your useable RPM range. Also, if being able to run WOT in sixth is your goal, you need to cam and tune your engine for good torque in the high-mid-range rather than good power at the top-end. Finally, running in sixth at 165-mph at WOT

[Hib Halverson]

I am not familiar with "XYZ" but I can tell you that, in a general sense, tuning the idle and part throttle of an E38 for an LS7 with cam and head work is difficult and time consuming. There are some tuners who don't really know how to tune idle and part throttle of engines with cams having more overlap than stock and there are some tuners' customers who don't want to spend the money it takes to calibrate part throttle because it requires a lot of time on a load-bearing chassis dyno.

You could easily drop 800-1000 bucks with an experienced, knowledgeable calibrator just trying to get idle and part-throttle, low end and low-mid-range drivability right using a load-bearing chassis dyno. A lot of Corvetters won't spend that kind of money. Yes, you can DIY the cal, but it takes a lot of time and street driving as well as knowledge of the calibration process. Experience helps, too. Finally, if you can afford it, professional training. If you were using HPTuners, "The Tuning School" is a great choice, but I think the only, really good training for those using EFILive comes from Greg Banish at Calibrated Success. There might be other cal schools for EFILive but I'm not aware of them.

As for your car being undriveable under 1600 unless you are accelerating, assuming a mild cam similar to, say...Katech's "Torquer 116", I'd say whomever did the current cal has more work to do with idle/part throttle.

[hymey]

Like Hib, I'm just another "Tuner In Training". My only add to this post is that I have or had one of RPM's B-3 cam and head package that I installed on my 2012 Z and I have the cam card for that cam. I originally installed this package for a friend and later bought the car. It was tuned for him by XYZ here in Vegas. It made great power (585/ 500) but was undriveable below 1700 RPM. I run mostly open road race events and while I almost could tolerate the 1700 and below, in 6th gear at 165 on level ground it would not hold speed at WOT (not enough torque). I got a cam recommendation from Comp and changed the cam. I am hoping it fixed the torque issue and will find out next weekend but it did not solve the now 1500 RPM and below lurching. A little bit of throttle and it is OK. Cruising is impossible. I have tried HP's forum posts concerning Trailer hitching by adjusting Injector timing with no results (I may not fully understand the process). I will gladly offer the cam card specs to anyone who will share a tune for one of RPM cam and head packages that works at lower rpm's that I may use to compare to mine.

Hi lbl . Getting the idle is straight forward and quite fast , regardless of maf or speed density . A lot really focus on fuel maps to help with these issues . I find if the idle is correct and setup right with lower and max limits . The next thing is ign timing and inj timing . Take note of part throttle tps going off and on the throttle and how much the timing changes from the idle / cruise to when throttle is applied . Some cars really have that tug feeling right on a certain kpa and TPS and they will also do it in car parks . The trick for car parks is really fine tuning the idle so it lol.

[Hib Halverson]

Hi lbl . Getting the idle is straight forward and quite fast , regardless of maf or speed density . A lot really focus on fuel maps to help with these issues . I find if the idle is correct and setup right with lower and max limits . The next thing is ign timing and inj timing . Take note of part throttle tps going off and on the throttle and how much the timing changes from the idle / cruise to when throttle is applied . Some cars really have that tug feeling right on a certain kpa and TPS and they will also do it in car parks . The trick for car parks is really fine tuning the idle so it lol.

One part of "hymey's" reply got me attention that that was his mention of "int timing." That one thing I'm really in the dark about. Does anyone know a good source of instructional information on what one can do with injector timing when trying to calibrate idle and part throttle on a heads and cam LS7?

[jmsmotorsport]

Hymey,

Does a DTC need to be set for it to use the B1703 and B1704 tables? Just confused that it mentions in description it’s used when the airflow fault codes set?

Also when setting the B1846 Closed throttle torque table you start at 100/110 and go down what’s the lowest figure your getting to either side of the 800/1000rpm area?

Idle has always been a pitfall and used your original way and it has improved everything so much until I run into a cold start issue but I think I have found that to be from B1219 flooding the engine.

[hymey]

Hi there , sorry for late reply .

The tables that mention the DTC failure are for speed density - mafless . When you fail the MAF these tables are used . Secondly if you want to keep the MAF you use the other tables which do not mention the DTC failure . This works as I did a cam swap last year in a VE and we kept the MAF . Works well . I believe many of the MAF issues people have with drivability are solved using this and the cars run really nicely . I was impressed with the last MAF car and I tuned this in open loop . Cam was a 227 244 114 . Wasn’t the best power cam but drove smooth and did well at last power cruise against other cammed cars.

For the question on closed throttle torque values , I can honestly say this is not as important as getting the limits correct as mentioned above. You can log the torque value and see what it is doing then match accordingly .

Injector timing question . IMO this should be simplified and I don’t believe using an RPM correction is required . If you search Andy Whittle - how efi works on YouTube . He has a video explaining injector timing and how adjusting this affects idle vacuum and another things that occur . He also explains how to adjust it and why .

This is to be experimented with but my suggestion is to 0 out any rpm multiplier and work on using his method . Even take out cold start settings and flat line them to really work out where it needs to be . It will involve a bit of logging and potentially setting limits close and locking timing to see what is happening.

I am looking at getting into this a little further as I have to tune a 240 cam in a 6 litre square port soon and I may go down this route .

[andysc3]

can someone help me with my idle? I have a 2011 Escalade 6.2L i just did a dod/vvt delete with a btr 218/224 .553 110lsa, rebuilt the transmission and use a Circle D 278mm converter. Ive tried following along but I think im still missing something. it will start, rev up and die. pressing on the throttle does nothing. Just replaced the spark plugs with bosch double iridium. I have not drilled the tb yet. but not sure if i will need to since its a pretty mild cam with only 1* of overlap. I attached the current tune and log of the start attempts.

[SOMFormula]

can someone help me with my idle? I have a 2011 Escalade 6.2L i just did a dod/vvt delete with a btr 218/224 .553 110lsa, rebuilt the transmission and use a Circle D 278mm converter. Ive tried following along but I think im still missing something. it will start, rev up and die. pressing on the throttle does nothing. Just replaced the spark plugs with bosch double iridium. I have not drilled the tb yet. but not sure if i will need to since its a pretty mild cam with only 1* of overlap. I attached the current tune and log of the start attempts.

I, litterly, just opened your file and saw one thing,
Why is B1561 and B1652 so low?
Did you mean to shut off the PID controller? Or limit it that much? I would raise them up to 2.2 each and go from there. I'll look at the file some more.

Also, could you post the stock file? That always helps on here. I have plenty of stock files from over the years, but without the dropbox being active anymore, it's tough for some to help.

[andysc3]

I was attempting to follow the guide on page 3 but Im a bit lost. Im used to my old procharged LQ4 with a monster cam. these e38 pcms are a whole new beast. attached the stock file

[SOMFormula]

I was attempting to follow the guide on page 3 but Im a bit lost. Im used to my old procharged LQ4 with a monster cam. these e38 pcms are a whole new beast. attached the stock file24248

Try this and see if it starts and now idles.

[SOMFormula]

I was attempting to follow the guide on page 3 but Im a bit lost. Im used to my old procharged LQ4 with a monster cam. these e38 pcms are a whole new beast. attached the stock file

While you're playing with that file, I wanted to give you some constructive criticism about your file.
This is for a "street vehicle". And also for something that is as heavy as your SUV.

I wouldn't marry the High and Low octane tables EXCEPT for tuning purposes only. It's a good way to tune for knock. Remove all the variables out. Once done tuning, remove about 25% out of the lower to allow the knock strategy to work properly.
B5112 - This is an "adder". Be VERY careful leaving that stock. Read the description and figure it out and what it does.

Get your PE sorted out. Those parameters and commanded AFR are not conducive to power/drive-ability.

Turn your E-fans on sooner. Cooler engine = more power!
I'd drop in a colder T-stat if it were me.

VVE - It looks like you "added" to the VVE tables. That's not correct. A cam is LESS efficient at idle. Especially with a 110LSA. The area under higher vacuum and at idle should be LOWER then stock. Then it likes to "hump" a bit before getting into the higher KPa ranges where it will increase. So make sure you're disabling the MAF and tuning the VVE appropriately. Especially since you have it enabled in the strategy. When MAF tuning, disable it completely for more accurate MAF data.

Spark Plugs = Ditch the iridium. You modified your vehicle, time to swap plugs more often. Those become a "glow plug" under heavy loads (think towing). Brisk Racing Silvers GR14YS are the BEST plug (ever). Followed by a Copper plug from NGK, 4177 TR6. You want to "shed" heat. Not retain it. That iridium will cause KR over long, loaded, pulls. Get rid of them. That, and with a lower T-stat, you can avoid KR. Also, coolant modded head gaskets help in that department as well.

That tune needs a lot of work. Go slow, take your time. Read the descriptions and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Also, shut off the Flex Fuel!!!!!
Once you disable LTFT's, it doesn't work. GM's FF strategy is sub-par, AT BEST. Add a sensor if you want it. BUT, tune for it. The stock FF tables are atrocious.

[SOMFormula]

I was attempting to follow the guide on page 3 but Im a bit lost. Im used to my old procharged LQ4 with a monster cam. these e38 pcms are a whole new beast. attached the stock file

Ok, now to your PID selections for datalogging...
You want to look at what your foot is commanding AND what the actual throttle body itself is doing. This helps for tuning off throttle situations while driving.
You want to watch your MAF Frequency AND the amount of air passing is (g/sec).
You want to watch your ECU's TQ output, for Torque modeling the transmission.
ECT
IAT's are important. Sometimes even monitoring the Battery Voltage is needed for High RPM tuning.

Injector duty cycle isn't all that important. It's good to know if you THINK you'll have a problem in that area. But stock injectors should handle E85 and a cam easily in that truck.

You have a cam. I wouldn't log misfires any longer. That algorithm doesn't work anymore.

You'll want to disable the LTFT for tuning. BUT, you definitely need to log the STFT's for any type of tuning (unless your are open loop tuning and watching ONLY the wideband).

Some idle airflow may be needed.

Don't overload the PID selections. Maybe make 1 PID selection file for; E38 - N/A Tuning. 2: E38 - N/A IDLE Tuning. 3: E38 - N/A TRANS Tuning.
Something to that effect so you can not get TOO many PID selections where it gets all jumbled up and confusing.

Get the PID's sorted out. That way we can help some more on your tuning.

[SOMFormula]

I was attempting to follow the guide on page 3 but Im a bit lost. Im used to my old procharged LQ4 with a monster cam. these e38 pcms are a whole new beast. attached the stock file



24250

[andysc3]

Thank you. I i will try it tonight when I get home. Timing tables are only the same for tuning purposes. I currently do have the maf signal wire unpinned from the connector. Are the stft still enabled? I thought I had tuned them out. The passenger o2 was siezed in the exhaust and I ordered a new pair. For now I have the old drivers side installed and the passenger side is blocked. I'm in North Dakota so I'm not sure about running a cooler tstat lol. Especially with snow in the forecast for next week. I had ngk tr55s in. After so many failed and almost starts they were covered in carbon so I ordered the stock replacements from autozone. I'll look at the rest when I get home and I'll report back.

[SOMFormula]

Thank you. I i will try it tonight when I get home. Timing tables are only the same for tuning purposes. I currently do have the maf signal wire unpinned from the connector. Are the stft still enabled? I thought I had tuned them out. The passenger o2 was siezed in the exhaust and I ordered a new pair. For now I have the old drivers side installed and the passenger side is blocked. I'm in North Dakota so I'm not sure about running a cooler tstat lol. Especially with snow in the forecast for next week. I had ngk tr55s in. After so many failed and almost starts they were covered in carbon so I ordered the stock replacements from autozone. I'll look at the rest when I get home and I'll report back.

Timing table - Ok, good. But still take care of that adder. I'd just zero it all out. You'll probably need to remove some timing in peak TQ/high load/low RPM area. Factory sets it too high.

STFT are shut off. Yes. I didn't know if you meant to do that or not.

The T-stat will regulate your temps. You want it open sooner. Do a 180 at least and turn on the fan sooner. I drive to Tahoe/Truckee in the winter in the snow. I keep my temps at 155-160 with zero issues. I've done the cold thing before, LOL. You can offset the temps in the ECT Temps Timing table for some more power. That's how I do it. Works great.

I'd go to TR6's if you can. Stock are iridium. I'd stay away from those.

They are fouled due to your VVE not setup properly.
You can fail the MAF in the ECU without unplugging it. Also, you'll want to change B8024/25 to max for Speed Density. Then fail the MAF in the parameters (same way you do in Gen 3). Then you have to set the DCT P0101/3 to A: 1 Trip.