timing bouncing in maf only tune

[Aint Skeered]

Can some one look at my short log and tell me why my timing is bouncing up and down?

I thought I would start a thread just for this.

I am not sure if this is a good mass air or not, It was diagnosed as being bad by a tuner that could not fix my idle so he told me my maf was bad. It seems to be working , it is a stock 75mm 2000 f body maf with screen removed.

Am I mssing something in my tune or does it look like a bad maff?


This is on my chevy II nova. It is a race car only and am trying to tune with maf only. This is why I have the injectors scaled -6%. I am going to have to pull more from them, still on the lean side.

[5.7ute]

If you are talking about the fluctuations at idle they pretty well match your idle overspeed/ underspeed error.
Is this an auto or manual trans?

[Aint Skeered]

fI am talking about there and when I get on the throttle it surges up and down.

THis is a th350 8" converter that should flash around 5000

[5.7ute]

If you log an airmass pid like GM.CYLAIR_DMA it should give a better indication of why the spark is acting like that.
B5933 base spark in park/neutral may need a bit of work to smooth transitions into the high octane table as well.

[Aint Skeered]

Ok I will have to log that in pass through mode. I have not started changing and adding pids into the black box logging yet. WHat it came with is what I use from the last update:help2:

I am curious as to how many grams /sec its pulling in. WHen you say work on the base, SHould it be very close to what the high octane table ?

[mr.prick]

did you save that log after it was filtered?
everything looked herky jerky from TP% to MAP.

[5.7ute]

Not knowing what inputs the pcm is seeing due to the fitting of the th350 I am not sure which base spark table is being used. Hence the "may need work".You generally want a smooth transition from the base spark tables to the main spark tables.
Hopefully the BBL pid system will be automated soon to make it easier.

[joecar]

Post your Options.txt file... we'll edit it so to include DYNCYLAIR_DMA.

[Aint Skeered]

Joe the attachments manager keeps saying invalid file. I am looking in v8.1 Is this correct?

[Aint Skeered]

did you save that log after it was filtered?
everything looked herky jerky from TP% to MAP.

I have not filtered anything:help2:

[joecar]

Joe the attachments manager keeps saying invalid file. I am looking in v8.1 Is this correct?Rename Options.ini to Options.ini.txt and attach that.

[5.7ute]

Post your Options.txt file... we'll edit it so to include DYNCYLAIR_DMA.

Doesnt he need GM.CYLAIR_DMA as he is using the maf only?

[Aint Skeered]

still saying invalid file.


I had to name it that but it was Options configuration settings before. It did not say Options.ini:help2:

[Aint Skeered]

One more question , in the 98 pid list it shows in my options ini to have GM.CYLAIR_DMA

I am going to copy and paste my options for 98 ls1 and 99+ ls1=; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_98
;
;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
PCM, ECT, -40:110:1:1:0
;PCM, FUELSYS
PCM, CYLAIR_M
PCM, DYNCYLAIR_M
PCM, IAT
PCM, LONGFT1
PCM, LONGFT2
PCM, EOPS
PCM, MAP
PCM, RPM, 0:6500:2:1:0
PCM, SPARKADV
PCM, TP
PCM, VSS
PCM, AFR
PCM, HO2S11
PCM, HO2S21
PCM, IBPW1
PCM, IBPW2
PCM, KR
PCM, MAFFREQ
-, WO2ST1
-, WO2ST2
-, WO2LAM1
-, WO2LAM2
-, WO2AFR1
-, WO2AFR2

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_LS1
;
;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
PCM, ECT, -40:110:1:1:0
PCM, FUELSYS
PCM, IAT
PCM, LONGFT1
PCM, LONGFT2
PCM, EOPS
PCM, MAP
PCM, RPM, 0:6500:2:1:0
PCM, SPARKADV
PCM, TP
PCM, VSS
PCM, AFR
PCM, HO2S11
PCM, HO2S21
PCM, IBPW1
PCM, IBPW2
PCM, KR
PCM, MAFFREQ
-, WO2ST1
-, WO2ST2
-, WO2LAM1
-, WO2LAM2
-, WO2AFR1
-, WO2AFR2

; __________________________________________________ _____

(

[Aint Skeered]

Now, Could I just log from the 98 pid list?

[Aint Skeered]

| |
; | Copyright © 1999-2007 |
; | EFILive Limited |
; | web: http://www.efilive.com |
; | email: info@efilive.com |
; |_________________________________________________ ______________________|
;
; Modifications
; __________________________________________________ _______________________
; Version | When | Who | Why
; __________________________________________________ _______________________
; 8.0 | 2007-Feb-16 | PSB | Created file
; __________________________________________________ _______________________
;
; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PID_SELECTIONS
;
;PID selection list
;-------------------
;
; Cap1 and Cap2 form the "on-screen" display option from which the user may select.
; Controllers lists 1 or 2 "&" seperated pid memory map (*.pmm) files.
; PSL is the PID Selection defined later in this file
; PCU is the PID Custom Units defined later in this file
;
;Cap1 Cap2 Controllers (Engine&Trans) PSL PCU
;------- -------- -------------------------- ---------- --------
LS1 98, Manual, LS1A_M.pmm, PSL_98, PCU
LS1 98, Auto, LS1A_A.pmm, PSL_98, PCU
LS1 99+, Manual, LS1B_M.pmm, PSL_LS1, PCU
LS1 99+, Auto, LS1B_A.pmm, PSL_LS1, PCU
P10, Manual, P10_M.pmm, PSL_LS1, PCU
P10, Auto, P10_A.pmm, PSL_LS1, PCU
P12, Manual, P12_M.pmm, PSL_LS1, PCU
P12, Manual, P12_A.pmm, PSL_LS1, PCU
E40, Manual, E40.pmm, PSL_LS2, PCU
E40, Auto, E40.pmm&T42.pmm, PSL_LS2, PCU
E38, Manual, E38.pmm, PSL_LS2, PCU
E38, Auto, E38.pmm&T43.pmm, PSL_LS2, PCU
E67, Manual, E67.pmm, PSL_LS2, PCU
E67, Auto, E67.pmm&T43.pmm, PSL_LS2, PCU
LB7, Manual, LB7.pmm, PSL_LB7, PCU
LB7, Auto, LB7.pmm&AL5.pmm, PSL_LB7, PCU
LLY, Manual, LLY.pmm, PSL_LB7, PCU
LLY, Auto, LLY.pmm&AL5.pmm, PSL_LB7, PCU
LBZ, Manual, LBZ.pmm, PSL_LBZ, PCU
LBZ, Auto, LBZ.pmm&AL5.pmm, PSL_LBZ, PCU
LMM, Manual, LMM.pmm, PSL_LBZ, PCU
LMM, Auto, LMM.pmm&AL5.pmm, PSL_LBZ, PCU

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
;
; PID Selection List
; ----------------------
;
; Node: Is one of PCM, ECM or TCM (use "-" for external PIDs).
; PCM = Powertran controller, engine and trans combined into one controller.
; ECM = Dedicated engine controller only.
; TCM = Dedicated transmission controller only.
;
; If you are unsure whether to use ECM or PCM, use PCM. PCM will match both ECM and PCM.
; The Node specified from which controller the PID will be retrieved.
; i.e. ECM-RPM v's TCM-RPM.
;
; PIDs: Is one or more "|" seperated PID names. The first valid PID will be used.
; Alarm: Is 5 ":" seperated fields:
; min: Minimum value, below which the alarm will sound.
; max: Maximum value, above which the alarm will sound.
; style: Is one of:
; 0 = No sound, No LEDs
; 1 = Low pitch
; 2 = Medium Pitch
; 3 = High Pitch
; 4 = Very high Pitch
; 16 = Illuminate LED 1
; 32 = Illuminate LED 2
; 48 = Illuminate LED 3
; 64 = Illuminate LED 4
; 128 = Illuminate LED 5
; Add Pitch and LED values together to enable audio and visual alarms.
; For example, for Medium Pitch and LED 4, use 2+64 = 66
; time: Time (in 10ms increments) for which alarm will be sounded.
; hold: Time (in seconds) for which the displayed value will be frozen (not implemented yet).
;
; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_98
;
;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
PCM, ECT, -40:110:1:1:0
;PCM, FUELSYS
PCM, CYLAIR_M
PCM, DYNCYLAIR_M
PCM, IAT
PCM, LONGFT1
PCM, LONGFT2
PCM, EOPS
PCM, MAP
PCM, RPM, 0:6500:2:1:0
PCM, SPARKADV
PCM, TP
PCM, VSS
PCM, AFR
PCM, HO2S11
PCM, HO2S21
PCM, IBPW1
PCM, IBPW2
PCM, KR
PCM, MAFFREQ
-, WO2ST1
-, WO2ST2
-, WO2LAM1
-, WO2LAM2
-, WO2AFR1
-, WO2AFR2

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_LS1
;
;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
PCM, ECT, -40:110:1:1:0
PCM, FUELSYS
PCM, IAT
PCM, LONGFT1
PCM, LONGFT2
PCM, EOPS
PCM, MAP
PCM, RPM, 0:6500:2:1:0
PCM, SPARKADV
PCM, TP
PCM, VSS
PCM, AFR
PCM, HO2S11
PCM, HO2S21
PCM, IBPW1
PCM, IBPW2
PCM, KR
PCM, MAFFREQ
-, WO2ST1
-, WO2ST2
-, WO2LAM1
-, WO2LAM2
-, WO2AFR1
-, WO2AFR2

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_LS2

;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
ECM, ECT, -40:110:1:1:0
ECM, FUELSYS
ECM, IAT
ECM, LONGFT1
ECM, LONGFT2
ECM, MAP
ECM, RPM, 0:6500:2:1:0
ECM, SPARKADV
ECM, TP
ECM, VSS
ECM, AFR_B|AFRATIO_M
ECM, HO2S11
ECM, HO2S21
ECM, INJPWB1
ECM, INJPWB2
ECM, KNKRET
-, WO2ST1
-, WO2ST2
-, WO2LAM1
-, WO2LAM2
-, WO2AFR1
-, WO2AFR2
; T42 4/5 speed
TCM, TFT
TCM, TIS
TCM, TOS
TCM, TCCSLIP
TCM, GEAR

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_LB7

;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
PCM, TP
PCM, ECT
PCM, IAT
PCM, MAF
PCM, RPM
PCM, VSS
PCM, BARO2
PCM, BOOST_M
PCM, FRPACT
PCM, FRPDES
PCM, FUELQ_MAIN_M
PCM, MAINBPW
PCM, MNINJTIM
PCM, PIINJTIM
PCM, PILOTRATE
; Allison 5 speed
TCM, TFT
TCM, TIS
TCM, TOS
TCM, TCCSLIP
TCM, GEAR
TCM, TRQENG_B

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PSL_LBZ

;Node PIDs (pid1|pid2|...|pidn) Alarm (min:max:style:time*10ms:hold*sec)
;---- -------------------------- -----------------------------------------
ECM, BARO
ECM, ECT
ECM, FRP_C
ECM, IAT
ECM, MAF
ECM, MAP
ECM, RPM
ECM, VSS
ECM, FRPDES
ECM, MAIN1Q_M
ECM, MAIN1T_M
ECM, MNINJTIM
ECM, PILOT1Q_M
ECM, PILOT1T_M
ECM, TCVPOS
; Allison 6 speed
TCM, TFT
TCM, TIS
TCM, TOS
TCM, TCCSLIP
TCM, GEAR
TCM, TRQENG_B

; __________________________________________________ _______________________
;
; PID Custom Units
; ----------------------
;
; PCU specifies the controller and PID for which to define a custom unit
; Caption is the caption displayed on screen during BB logging (8 characters maximum).
; Prec is the number of decimal places to display
; Units is the display units name.
; Op is the operator, one of:
; * = multiply
; / = divide
; i = invert_then_multiply
; The metric value of the PID is multiplied, divided or inverted then multiplied by Factor.
; Offset is then added.
;
; __________________________________________________ _______________________
*PCU
;
; PID Caption Prec Units Op Factor Offset
; -------- -------- ---- ----- -- ------------- -------------
PCM,ECT, Coolant, 0,°F, *, 1.8, 32.0
PCM,MAP, M'Fold, 1,psi, /, 6.894757,
PCM,VSS, Speed, 0,mph, /, 1.609344,
PCM,SPARKADV,Spark
PCM,IAT, Intake, 0,°F, *, 1.8, 32.0
PCM,MAF, AirFlow, 1,lb/m, /, 7.559873,
PCM,TP, Throttle
PCM,KR, Knock
-, T1, T1, 1,°F, *, 1.8, 32.0
-, T2, T2, 1,°F, *, 1.8, 32.0







THis is my full options.ini I am going to check back later and did not want to not have the right thing posted. Thanks for any help guy's

[5.7ute]

I would just replace the EOPS pid with the CYLAIR_M pid & go from there.

[joecar]

Doesnt he need GM.CYLAIR_DMA as he is using the maf only?Oh, I meant which ever one is indexing the spark tables.

[Aint Skeered]

I would just replace the EOPS pid with the CYLAIR_M pid & go from there.

Is it as simple as deleteing the EOPS pid and copy and paste it from the 98 pid list?

[5.7ute]

Is it as simple as deleteing the EOPS pid and copy and paste it from the 98 pid list?

That is all I did to add the manvac & battery voltage pids to my V2 so it should work fine. So instead of PCM, EOPS you will have PCM, CYLAIR_M
Then save the options file & reconfigure your V2 with the new file.

[Aint Skeered]

Got it, thanks. I am going to try it in the car tomorrow morning.
I did not get to do any tuning today, My dad needed help with his car so we spent the day doing some mods to his old Chevelle.

I am going back to the track with my Nova tomorrow night. Hopefully I can apply what You guys have taught me . I really appreciate the help guy's.

[joecar]

Post pics of both cars if you get a chance...:cheers:

[Aint Skeered]

I have to get some pics of my dads car. Its a 65 Malibu with a 383 lt1, Trickflow heads , Art Carr 700 r4 with a 4700 art carr converter.
We need to get some cold air into the engine as it breaths from a filter close to the headers. We are moving the filter into the fender and making an air dam to come in from the bottom of the fenderwell. Car run's consistant 11.50's with 1.50 60 ft's at 115 mph. We are looking to get him up in the 118 mph soon though.

I have pics of the nova and My trans am on my photobucket

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/chad12345/nova2-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/chad12345/frontviewofnova.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/chad12345/1229700306.jpg

[Aint Skeered]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/chad12345/DSC00526.jpg
and a video of my car at Rich Christiansens(Pinks) Arm drop Live In November 2008
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/chad12345/th_chadleepervsGT500.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v249/chad12345/?action=view&current=chadleepervsGT500.flv)


Just realized that behind me in the burnout box in the video is my dads Malibu.

My car was not hooking at that race, I sold all my racing tires and was on old wore out nittos and in full street trim . I dont race this car any more since I bought the Nova but the Nova was not ready in time so the T/A had to come out of retirement.