Need help ASAP with tuning issues

[esco35m]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1049617-take-look-what-ups-left-my-door.html

Above is the link I just recently had done to the car. Jason at TSP tuned the car but I am still having drivablity issues. Jason said he will try to help me get my car tuned the only problem is he is not to familar with efi live and I live about 6 hours away from TSP. So I hoping you guys can help me get my car straight.

First of all the car will start right up and idles great. Most of my issues are at normal driving ie bucking at low speeds around 1500 rpm (15 mph first and 25 mph second gear), when coming to a quick stop the car idle dips to 300 rpm swings up to 1200 and does this back and forth. Sometimes the car stalls completly when coming to a stop quickly. If I am parked on my drive way which is very steep and if I let the car roll forward it will drop the idle and sometimes stall. Another issue is if I am stopped and begin to take off the car bogs down so I have to give it lots of gas so it does not die. Same thing happens when I go in reverse.

The car will idle fine. I will post up a my tune file and tell me what you all think. If anyone can adjust or tell me what to adjust I will do so. I would greatly appricate anyones help. I am a complety newbie when it comes to tuning these kind of problems. I will be headed to work and will be checking online for any questions you guys may have. When I get out of work I will be able to attempt to tune my car with any suggestions you all may have. Thank you very much in advance. Mod are posted below.

TFS 215 Heads, 92mm LSX Intake Ported, 224/228 112+4 Comp Cam, Yella Terra RR, Power Bond pulley, Melling Performance Oil Pump, Comp Cam Lifters, LS2 Timing Chain, Harden Pushrods, Textraila Clutch, Quarter Mile Performance lid, SLP Mass Air Sensor, SLP Smooth Flow Bellow, NW 92mm Throttle Body, NGK Plugs, MSD Wires, SLP Tuned Length Headers w/ORY, Magnaflow Exhaust.

[GAMEOVER]

Post up a data log...Do you have any logs?

[GAMEOVER]

To me...IMO, your Spark High Octane table(B5913) looks really weird, some of the transitions from cell to cell are not right...it's not smooth

[esco35m]

When I get home to this evening I will post up a log. I thought the spark table looked a little funnier when I compared it to the efi live repository for the some of the head and cam setups. Any other suggestions, I know the log will help out alot.

[mr.prick]

You need to log RAFIG.
If your fueling is right the likely answer lies in {B4307}.
Idle Tuning (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4661)

[esco35m]

You need to log RAFIG.
If your fueling is right the likely answer lies in {B4307}.
Idle Tuning (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4661)

I have a lot of questions.

First can I do the rafig process before the autove is done. I have done the autove once since I got the car back. I did not post this file up because I wanted you guys to see what I was working with. After I did the autove I still had a lot of lower RPM bucking. When I added fuel and timing it most of it went away? However that was a crap load of fuel that I had to add. Im not sure where to start tackling this animal. Should I do the autove over again and then start the RAFIG process and finish off with the idle tuning. I think that the spark table is really off I just not sure when and how much to adjust it. When I get the autove and the rafig process done how will I adjust the spark table?

Second when I do the rafig process does it matter if the car is in Autove configuation and can I just setup the correct pids. I might have missed what all needs to be turned on and off like the autove process. I do plan on running a MAF. I have never did RAFIG process and looked at the tutorial that SPDEAMON wrote. I know how tune the maf. ie Seed density open loop.

Third should I have to mess with the idle set screw on the the TB before the RAFIG or just leave it the way it is. I saw in the thread spdeamon wrote that cammed cars have adjust the idle screw or put a hole in the TB. My TB already has a hole so how much should I adjust the screw if at all.

I am sorry for all the question but I just want my car to run great after all the money that was put into it. I will try this when I get out of work. Thanks for all you help and I will keep you all updated.

[mr.prick]

Don`t mess with the idle screw, make sure TP% is 0 when throttle is closed,
RAFIG can be done in OL and CL it dose`nt matter.
Log right away until the car is a little warm, don`t start driving right away.
You might want to paste and add 50% at first.
Make sure you are not running lean, that can skew logged RAFIG.
Log cold start below 68*F if you can, below looks kind of high to me.
The slope of the table should be roughly the same angle, not stepped/staggered.
I imagine it`s not that cold where you are thus the step up in the low ECT areas.

[esco35m]

I just got done doing the RAFIG process. Now I know this maybe a dumb question but when I was doing the process did the car have to be in gear like the pid. Because I just left it in nutrual. here were my values

68 -3.11
90 -1.55
111 -3.93
133 -4.58
154 -4.55
176 -4.62
198 -4.58

So I am going to subtract these values from the table in the tune B4307.

[5.7ute]

I just got done doing the RAFIG process. Now I know this maybe a dumb question but when I was doing the process did the car have to be in gear like the pid. Because I just left it in nutrual. here were my values

68 -3.11
90 -1.55
111 -3.93
133 -4.58
154 -4.55
176 -4.62
198 -4.58

So I am going to subtract these values from the table in the tune B4307.

In an auto car you need to do both RAFPN & RAFIG. RAFPN in park or neutral & RAFIG while in gear.
A manual car is classed as in gear unless the clutch is depressed so your data is fine.

[esco35m]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. 5.7
BTW nice car in sig.

[mr.prick]

Is your car an M6 or A4?
the tune you posted had no values in the P/N column.
you also have some trans cals. out of range,
which is odd seeing how the calibration tab shows you have an M6. :nixweiss:

subtracting negative values will add.
adding negative values will subtract.

add the logged values for RAFIG.

[5.7ute]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. 5.7
BTW nice car in sig.

Thanks. The light hides a lot of sins though.
Paste & add the values like mr.prick has said. This will get your desired airflow table in the ballpark.

[esco35m]

Heres what I did last night. I finished the rafig process and made some adjustments like spdeamon recommended according to the idle tuning. The last thing that I did was the Startup friction airflow correction. I also changed the tran cal back to normal.

I just got done doing some logging. I just drove around the block. The idle was good like before however the when i come to a stop I am still gitting the idle dropping down to about 300rpm and swinging back up to about 1200rpm. The one thing that did get alot better was off idle. I can take off with out giving it too much throttle. The car stalled on me about three times this morning. Most of the time it was when I was going in reverse. So I am very happy about that.

Let me know what you all think and what I should adjust next. I attached the log and the tune that was used. Thank you all very much.

[mr.prick]

You need to drop 1 or 2 PIDS, you have 25 channels selected this will slow
the rate of data logged.

24 channels is the limit to log in "stream-fast mode"
see scan tool properties >logging >scan mode >more info

FWIW i have only need to change {B4307} {B4311} and {B4312} for all my idle woes,
all other idle tables are stock.
Raise {B4311} and {B4312} then see if it still wants to stall while coming to a stop.
RAFIG looked good.

[esco35m]

You need to drop 1 or 2 PIDS, you have 25 channels selected this will slow
the rate of data logged.

24 channels is the limit to log in "stream-fast mode"
see scan tool properties >logging >scan mode >more info

FWIW i have only need to change {B4307} {B4311} and {B4312} for all my idle woes,
all other idle tables are stock.
Raise {B4311} and {B4312} then see if it still wants to stall while coming to a stop.
RAFIG looked good.

I will take another look at some the changes. I will put the other tables back to stock. How much should I raise B4311 and B4312 and where at in the table. I don't have the efi infront of me since im at work on lunch break. When I get home this evening I will make some more changes and post up results.

[mr.prick]

This is how mine are set
Throttle Cracker Activate Speed
{B4311} Throttle Cracker Activate Speed 15 MPH
{B4312} Throttle Cracker Deactivate Speed 14 MPH

You may not need so much, try 10MPH and 9MPH

[johnv]

you really need to log IAC counts, and get them in the ball park before doing the RAFIG.

Here is a guide i started to put together -

· Determine desired idle speed – use bi-directional controls to find what idle rpm the engine likes
· Set desired idle rpm values in table B4603
· Go to all spark tables an set park & idle values to aprox 22* or verify what engine likes at idle using the bi-directional controls
· Now switch to scanner and select IAC counts and TPS voltage pids.

We want IAC counts to be 40-60 for cars with aftermarket cams. The stock cam runs about 60-80 counts. A car with an aftermarket cam will want less IAC counts.
To reduce IAC counts turn off the car. Turn the idle set screw clockwise to open the throttle blade a LITTLE. Unplug the TPS, turn the key to the on position, DO NOT start the car, for 30 seconds. Turn the key off and plug TPS back in.
Start the car and begin scanning. Monitor the IAC counts and repeat until the IAC counts come into line. It will take about 4-6 times to get the IAC counts correct.
Now put a load on the car (D if automatic, and put the AC on). The values here
Should be no higher than 120 or so.
Note: Keep in mind that TPS voltage must be in the .4 to .6 range. If above or below this voltage, the PCM will fall into the wrong cell at idle. Check the TPS voltage each time the set screw is adjusted and adjust as necessary.
· Another adjustment that will help start-up and idle is to go to the cranking VE table and multiply the whole table by about -20% to lower it.
· Open Map and log RAFIG & RAFIP/N from a cold start up and apply add corrections to tables in B4307
· With larger cams it may be beneficial to reduce the amount of timing the pcm can command to smooth idle – B5935 & B5936 to prevent the PCM fighting the cam and constantly over and under correcting.
· Increase the idle learn limits in the following tables to allow PCM greater range to learn idle on larger cams
{B4322} Idle Learn P/N Limit High 8
{B4323} Idle Learn P/N Limit Low - 8
{B4331} Idle Learn P/N A/C On Limit High 8
{B4330} Idle Learn P/N A/C On Limit Low -8
{B4324} Idle Learn Drive Limit High 8
{B4325} Idle Learn Drive Limit Low -8
{B4329} Idle Learn Drive A/C On Limit High 8
{B4328} Idle Learn Drive A/C On Limit Low -8
· To prevent the throttle cracker interfering when manouvering vehicle at low speed and causeing a stumble or stalling increase the vaues in tables
{B4311} Throttle Cracker Activate Speed 13
{B4312} Throttle Cracker Deactivate Speed 12 (worked for me)

[esco35m]

Mr Prick,

Do you think I need to do the RAFIG process again? I tried raising the B4311 and b4312. I still get the same results when coming to a stop. I also got on the free way and when im coming off the freeway and I press and hold in the clutch and put the car in neutrual the RPM dips way down like to 300 rpms and swings back up. And thats doing 50-60 mph. I am getting a little frustrated with this. Do you think anything mechanicly wrong could be going on like losing fuel pressure or something. I have no idea where to start. And now Jason at TSP does not answer his phone or return my calls.

Mr Prick or anyone else do you think I could start with your tune I think we have the same size cam. Or could you make some adjustment with my tune to get me in line. I just want this car to be safe to drive on the street. I am going to try doing the autove and get everything else in line. Let me know what you all think the problem could be.

[5.7ute]

esco, do a log with spark, throttle cracker & throttle follower airflow & IAC steps. It is more than likely too unstable an idle but if airflow is decaying too quickly, no timing correction will catch it.

[esco35m]

esco, do a log with spark, throttle cracker & throttle follower airflow & IAC steps. It is more than likely too unstable an idle but if airflow is decaying too quickly, no timing correction will catch it.

How do I do that?

[5.7ute]

How do I do that?

Log the pids
SAE.TP
GM.AFR
SAE.ECT
SAE.RPM
SAE.SPARKADV
SAE.IAT
SAE.MAP
GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA
GM.IACDES
GM.IAC_TC_DMA
GM.IAC_TF_DMA
SAE.VSS

That is just going from my head so make sure there isnt too many channels being used. If you want you can PM me your email addy & I will send you my tune through to have a look at. I used to have similar issues to yours but now apart from the aircon, everything is fine.
Cheers Mick

[esco35m]

Log the pids
SAE.TP
GM.AFR
SAE.ECT
SAE.RPM
SAE.SPARKADV
SAE.IAT
SAE.MAP
GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA
GM.IACDES
GM.IAC_TC_DMA
GM.IAC_TF_DMA
SAE.VSS

That is just going from my head so make sure there isnt too many channels being used. If you want you can PM me your email addy & I will send you my tune through to have a look at. I used to have similar issues to yours but now apart from the aircon, everything is fine.
Cheers Mick

I will put in the pids and log it tomorrow. I will also post up the log. Thank you for help me with this problem

[esco35m]

5.7

Thank you very much I will study your tune and see how I can make adjustments for tomorrow. I will keep you posted and will post up a log when complete.

Do you still have and drivablity issues or did you get them all cleared out? I only ask because I see that you have a cam with alot more overlap.

[5.7ute]

There is still a slight shudder at 1700rpm I need to work on. It is just a matter of getting someone to drive the car while I play with the RR. Also I havent fully ironed out the stalling with aircon on.
Cheers Mick

[GAMEOVER]

I still think IMO, your spark high octane table B5913 is not normal....Have you even looked at it?
If you open up your Tune tool and Scan tool at the same time you can highlight where your having problems on the scan tool and it will automatically highlight in the Tune tool.
There is a section in your Sparkadvance table[B5913] where there are some odd spikes or abrupt changes in timing.

Especially if you look at this range from 400rpm-1800rpm and .08-.36 Grams/Cylinder...
That's about where you are idling and cruising. I've seen in your log where you have 3 degrees of knock retard at 1200rpm...:shock:
I've compared a couple of tune's to yours and in some places your like 10 degree's advanced more than the norm.

my .02

[esco35m]

I am to the point where I think I am going to start from a stock tune. Do the autove to get everything as straight as I can. Then I will try to do some of the advice you guys have given me. If anyone thinks I should try a different approach let me know thank you guys for your help. Any other advice is welcomed.

Gameover I think my spark table is off as well. I just not to sure how to fix it. Like I said I will change everything to stock and try troubleshooting from there. I will be posting logs and updates to see if you can help me get this car running correctly.

[GAMEOVER]

Do you have your stock tune?

[mr.prick]

KR is not uncommon in low load areas with an m6.
Are you still stalling out when coming to a stop?

[esco35m]

Do you have your stock tune?

Yes I do.

[esco35m]

KR is not uncommon in low load areas with an m6.
Are you still stalling out when coming to a stop?

Yes the car was acting the exact same. One thing I try was, I changed the values in the throttle cracker table to 2.0 in the first few row and colums where the stalling was happening. And it did help out but in the end I was still stalling. I changed the table back to normal. I have been doing some researching and I think the IAC maybe way off. I only say that because I don't know if they were ever adjusted from stock and it seems that could cause my problem as well. Since I do have a cammed car and it has a 92mm TB.

I am doing alot of research and take yall's advise. I am still looking for answers or if you all can point me in the right direction. Also I talked to Jason at TSP and now he said he is going to try and help me as well. When I mentioned to him about my IAC maybe being off he also agreed and thinks that I should work that area in the tune. I am now trying to figure out how to log and check my IAC count to make sure its good. He told me that my count should be about 80 however in the thread someone mentioned it should be 40-60 for cammed cars. What does everone else think? Now he needs to try and down load and understand efi live first so he can better assist me. So until then you all are my biggest help. Thanks again.

[mr.prick]

Make sure TPS% is 0 when throttle is closed.
If what i suggested didn`t help i don`t know what else to say.

Raising the rolling idle values and lowering desired airflow
is all I have needed to do.

[esco35m]

Make sure TPS% is 0 when throttle is closed.
If what i suggested didn`t help i don`t know what else to say.

Raising the rolling idle values and lowering desired airflow
is all I have needed to do.

Yes the TPS said 0 last time I checked. Like I said I will try everything all over again from scratch and try to see what I find. I will post up my results. Im sure that it is something small that I am missing maybe a couple of table being way off. I just have to try and figure it out.

[esco35m]

UPDATE

Well all I can say is right now is "WOW"!!! Ron at vengeance racing hooked me up with a mail order tune that was done by Mike.:master: Night and Day differance. The car drives great. I would say the tune is about 90% on the money. It just needs a little fine tuning. I drove the car about an hour. Not one time did it stall. It every now and again the idle may swing from about 600rpms to about 1100 but it settles pretty quick. I am completly satisfied with the tune. And all this was a mail order tune on a car that they have never seen. And Jason at TSP had my car for a week.:Throwup:

[GAMEOVER]

That's good to hear...:) Did he have a look at the tune you were trying to work with?

[esco35m]

Yea sent it to him and he said that he noticed a few things that were way off.

[5.7ute]

Did you do a compare between the tunes & see where the issues were?

[esco35m]

Did you do a compare between the tunes & see where the issues were?

Yes I did.

[SSpdDmon]

Yes I did.
Got your PM - will try to look at your tune later this week. Kinda busy though...