Missed 2-3 shift...Log enclosed from track

[exploder]

I have a log here from the track. The car was moving out pretty well, but the car didn't make the 2-3 shift in time and banged the limiter. I had to let out and then get back in it...I still ran a 10.3 at 136. I am going to enclose a log a tune from prior to that run and then another tune with what I changed to try and correct it. I never got a chance to test it to see if it worked or not, tell me if I went the right way or if I need to go more. Thanks

[joecar]

I looked at your files briefly, I am going to look in more detail.

[jfpilla]

You have the 1-2 shift set at 40mph. The corresponding 2-3 shift mph is 75mph.(you're set at 85mph) It's never a perfect correlation, but when you find the mph that causes shifts at the rpms you've set then you can set your rpms with more confidence.

[Slowrc]

You have the 1-2 shift set at 40mph. The corresponding 2-3 shift mph is 75mph.(you're set at 85mph) It's never a perfect correlation, but when you find the mph that causes shifts at the rpms you've set then you can set your rpms with more confidence.

What math dictates this?

My Z shifts to 3rd @ 6200 and I have it commanded @5800. I had to back it down to 5800 to keep it off the limiter????? I don't know why either...

[jfpilla]

What math dictates this?

My Z shifts to 3rd @ 6200 and I have it commanded @5800. I had to back it down to 5800 to keep it off the limiter????? I don't know why either...

There may be some formula for it, but I doubt that there is a simple one.
The popular theory is that both the MPH and RPM parameters must be met for a shift to occur. Faster reving cars and/or slow shifting trannys need to have lower MPH settings relative to the desired RPMs.
ex:On my current setup with a fast shifting RPM trans I have the MPH in 1st set at 50MPH and 6750RPMs. It shifts at 6900RPMs. That was based on my first trip to the track, with this setup, where I had 1st set at 40MPH and 6750RPMs and it shifted at 6000RPMs. I had set the MPH low based on my experience with my previous setup.What MPH to set? It seems to be just trial and error.

[Slowrc]

There has to be some better info on this. I thought the mph was an enabler "something that must be met for the shift to happen" and the rpm was the point that it happens. Thats what it looks like on my logs. The current gear pid swithes from 2 to 3 right at 5800 as I command , But the rpms top out at 6200 on the log. This may be more normal than I think...Maybe between TM, high stall, and high rpm thats as quick as the trnny can get it done.

Disclaimer: These are my thoughts and assumptions:confused:

[joecar]

The WOT shift parameters are still a mystery as far as blowing a shift, and a stall makes it worse...

there might be some tables/parameters that have not been discovered yet.

[joecar]

Whether the MPH is the enabler and the RPM is the trigger, or vice-versa, it doesn't matter since observing this shows that the shift happens after both conditions are met regardless of their order (or, rather, this is what I have observed, which doesn't make it universal... "don't assume anything").

[joecar]

exploder,

Your 0005 and 0006 tune files only differ in the PE table... or am I looking at the wrong files...?

Cheers
Joe
:cheers:

[Slowrc]

Whether the MPH is the enabler and the RPM is the trigger, or vice-versa, it doesn't matter since observing this shows that the shift happens after both conditions are met regardless of their order (or, rather, this is what I have observed, which doesn't make it universal... "don't assume anything").

Good to know:cheers:

[jfpilla]

Whether the MPH is the enabler and the RPM is the trigger, or vice-versa, it doesn't matter since observing this shows that the shift happens after both conditions are met regardless of their order (or, rather, this is what I have observed, which doesn't make it universal... "don't assume anything").

True, Joe, but if you want to have confidence in the shift occuring about where you have set the RPMs you have to meet the MPH setting first. It helps a lot at the track when you are trying to find what shift points give you the best times.

[jfpilla]

There has to be some better info on this. I thought the mph was an enabler "something that must be met for the shift to happen" and the rpm was the point that it happens. Thats what it looks like on my logs. The current gear pid swithes from 2 to 3 right at 5800 as I command , But the rpms top out at 6200 on the log. This may be more normal than I think...Maybe between TM, high stall, and high rpm thats as quick as the trnny can get it done.

Disclaimer: These are my thoughts and assumptions:confused:

I think you just repeated what I said and if you move the MPH settings around you will get the shift to complete where you set the RPMs.
I find it messy and distracting to set my RPMs at 5000 to get a 6500 shift. But that's me.

As for better info, this is it. This issue is, as far as history is concerned, as old as ram air, bigger MAFs, colder thermostats, etc, debates.

[joecar]

Yes, I like the MPH condition to be met first, I agree... otherwise it leaves you uncomfortable.

[exploder]

The changed shift points seemed to have fixed the problem so far. I do have one more question though that has to do with code p1870...trans slip detected and then makes the car command max line pressure and drives like crap. I think I have my converter lockup and unlock stuff messed up just enough to make the car do this from time to time. It really only does it if I have driven it for long distances and never just around town. Does anyone have any ideas on what to change.

[jfpilla]

The slip test may be the issue. Try setting E0802 to 50. That will still allow some of the slip test to work.

You have typo in D0103 @18.75. You might want to look harder than I did at the tables, but I don't see anything that would set the code in those tables.
Your converter must lock up pretty hard. I noticed PWM is set to 100/100.
Do you like the converter locking up in 3rd?
Also forgot to mention that the stock rear tire size for your car is 26.66. Your using 26.0.
I doubt that would be a problem, but?

So as far as I can tell it's E0802, real slip or something I don't know about.:gossip:

[exploder]

I just went and looked for table D0103 and it doesn't exist or I can't see it...yes the converter locks up pretty hard...but I want it to to get the max mph out of the setup.

[exploder]

Here is a log I did today for trans slip...

[jfpilla]

I just went and looked for table D0103 and it doesn't exist or I can't see it...yes the converter locks up pretty hard...but I want it to to get the max mph out of the setup.

Sorry, it's D1003.

[jfpilla]

A locked converter should slip 2% or less.

[joecar]

That's weird, TCCSLIP seems to follow (be proportional to) your engine RPM...

I'm wondering if the TCCSLIP pid is defined/scaled correctly...

Exploder, your car is a 2003 Z06...?

[exploder]

yes it is an 03 z06 that I converted to an auto...I know it just wrong, but I like it better now. When I selected the pids I made no changes to them in any way...do I need to log anything else to make it easier?

[joecar]

AT is fine if it can handle the TQ... :cheers:

[joecar]

I don't know that we can solve the problem...

Log these:

TIS
RPM
VSS
TP
TCCMODE
TCCSLIP
TCCDC
GEAR
TFT
MFTOTAL
DYNCYLAIR_DMA
MAF
MAP
and others...

but keep channel count to 24 or less (we want to see high resolution).

Create a calc pid to do RPM - TIS and compare this to TCCSLIP...

4L60E: PCM computes TIS from TOS (which comes from rear speed sensor [VSS]) and current gear ratio.
4L80E: PCM gets TIS from front speead sensor.

Hopefully by viewing RPM - TIS we can sanity check TCCSLIP.

[jfpilla]

Here is a log I did today for trans slip...

Exploder,
If you go to time 11:37:46, you see your TP at pretty much steady state. Your slip, locked, is low but still above 2%. Any place where you increase throttle the slip, locked, increases. It even slips above unlocked levels.
It sure looks like a slipping trans or converter.
Try driving with converter locked and press the brake pedal just enough to unlock the converter and give it a good amount of gas. If the RPMs jump, without the car excelerating much, it's probably a slipping trans.
Joe

[exploder]

I sent the log file to TJ at Rpm Transmissions and he wants me to send the trans back...he says it is slipping pretty badly. I can't say enough good things about Tj and the guys there, my car just makes alot of power and a 4l60's just don't cut it. I am going to go to the track this saturday anyways because my buddy rented it for an event he is having. It will either be blow or go. I will let you guys know what happens.:cheers:

[jfpilla]

I sent the log file to TJ at Rpm Transmissions and he wants me to send the trans back...he says it is slipping pretty badly. I can't say enough good things about Tj and the guys there, my car just makes alot of power and a 4l60's just don't cut it. I am going to go to the track this saturday anyways because my buddy rented it for an event he is having. It will either be blow or go. I will let you guys know what happens.:cheers:
I've been through 3 other builder's trannys. This one is RPMs level 6. I've had it over a year and it is like day one. I agree RPM is first class.