Quick RAFIG / AutoVE questions

Hi guys,

Long time listener, first time caller. :notacrook: This site rocks, Flashscan rocks, and my car... rocks at WOT, but not so much at idle :bawl:

2003 Z06, TTiX twin turbo, forged motor with mildly lower compression, 72cc ported LS1 heads (don't ask), and a baby turbo cam. I wish I had the specs, but I was given the cam # and Cammotion's phone #, not a grind spec (since I guess the grind was supposed to be a secret). For the purposes of this post, let's assume it has more exhaust duration to help the turbos and maybe a little more lift than a Z06 cam, but not much.

I did 2 passes with AutoVE today on the road. Most cells wanted anywhere between 4% and 8% added, a few cells under high vacuum wanted 10%ish, but for the most part it looked like my heads/cam were mild enough that the PCM could have LTFTd its way through the changes without issue.

Now, first question - I am using an LC1 - how much variance between passes is normal? For example, on pass 1 EFILive told me to scale a cell by 1.09. The next pass it told me to scall it by .97. I am kind of inclined to just leave well enough alone if I can get all the cells to want to go slightly negative (.95 to .99). Is this acceptable practice or do you guys always get yours nailed right down to .99 or 1.00?

Now, second question. I am having some idle trouble (car wants to stall, 90% of the time it recovers itself). If I blip the throttle when stopped it does it, if I coast to a stop in neutral, it does it. If I coast to a stop in gear until around 1000rpm then go neutral, it will sometimes do it. It drives GREAT in gear between 400rpm and 1500rpm, where I seem to have the most idle trouble. Given the small cam and minor tweaks to the heads I am guessing RAFIG/RAFPN should take care of my problem, yes?

Will RAFIG/RAFPN work fine with the SD settings from AutoVE still loaded? I don't want to reenable my MAF yet as I want to nail the rest of the tune first. I seem to recall disabling fuel trim learning from the AutoVE tutorial but I don't know if that affects idle trim learning too.

Lastly, all four of my DMAs for RAFIG/PN show up with red Xs. GM.IAC_LTD_DMA, GM.IAC_LTPN_DMA, GM.IAC_STD_DMA, and GM.IAC_STPN_DMA. I have tried validating the PIDs and they keep coming back with red Xs. Anyone know what could be causing that?

:cheers:

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Originally Posted by diynoob

Hi guys,

Long time listener, first time caller. :notacrook: This site rocks, Flashscan rocks, and my car... rocks at WOT, but not so much at idle :bawl:

2003 Z06, TTiX twin turbo, forged motor with mildly lower compression, 72cc ported LS1 heads (don't ask), and a baby turbo cam. I wish I had the specs, but I was given the cam # and Cammotion's phone #, not a grind spec (since I guess the grind was supposed to be a secret). For the purposes of this post, let's assume it has more exhaust duration to help the turbos and maybe a little more lift than a Z06 cam, but not much.

I did 2 passes with AutoVE today on the road. Most cells wanted anywhere between 4% and 8% added, a few cells under high vacuum wanted 10%ish, but for the most part it looked like my heads/cam were mild enough that the PCM could have LTFTd its way through the changes without issue.

Now, first question - I am using an LC1 - how much variance between passes is normal? For example, on pass 1 EFILive told me to scale a cell by 1.09. The next pass it told me to scall it by .97. I am kind of inclined to just leave well enough alone if I can get all the cells to want to go slightly negative (.95 to .99). Is this acceptable practice or do you guys always get yours nailed right down to .99 or 1.00?

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Firstly, welcome to th forum!!

I'm going to start by asking that you followed the LC-1 tutorial and that you are satisfied that it and EFILive are configured so that the AFR readings derived from the LC-1 output voltage is correct :)

I generally try and have the average for a cell between 0.98 and 1.02. Now, there will be a wider variance that than for the min/max of a cell (generally - especiall under light loads/decel).

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Originally Posted by diynoob

Now, second question. I am having some idle trouble (car wants to stall, 90% of the time it recovers itself). If I blip the throttle when stopped it does it, if I coast to a stop in neutral, it does it. If I coast to a stop in gear until around 1000rpm then go neutral, it will sometimes do it. It drives GREAT in gear between 400rpm and 1500rpm, where I seem to have the most idle trouble. Given the small cam and minor tweaks to the heads I am guessing RAFIG/RAFPN should take care of my problem, yes?

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Is this an M6 or A4 firstly? Because you mention RAFPN I'm inclined to think A4. If not, don;t worry about that cause an M6 is always considered to be "in gear".

RAFIG/RAFPN will make a huge difference and do need to be accurate for you idle transition to be smooth. It is important to get this table in line first really.

Also have a look at the Throttle Cracker tables to see how much airflow is being added at various RPM vs. Speed points.

You may also like to have a look at the decay rates for Throttle Follower and perhaps slow the decay. I know some guys have had problems with the car dying when the throttle is blipped.

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Originally Posted by diynoob

Will RAFIG/RAFPN work fine with the SD settings from AutoVE still loaded? I don't want to reenable my MAF yet as I want to nail the rest of the tune first. I seem to recall disabling fuel trim learning from the AutoVE tutorial but I don't know if that affects idle trim learning too.

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Absolutely!! Trimming is for fuel, not airflow.

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Originally Posted by diynoob

Lastly, all four of my DMAs for RAFIG/PN show up with red Xs. GM.IAC_LTD_DMA, GM.IAC_LTPN_DMA, GM.IAC_STD_DMA, and GM.IAC_STPN_DMA. I have tried validating the PIDs and they keep coming back with red Xs. Anyone know what could be causing that?

:cheers:

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Go to the File->Enter VIN menu in the Scan Tool and check that you have the correct Operating System listed. That may change them to valid PIDs...

RAFIG should nail the the stationary idle issues (you don't sound like that is a big problem), and minor changes to your throttle cracker and or follower tables should get the transitions in line.

As for the AutoVE, I aim for .98 to 1.01 BEN's. It may take you a few passes to get it dialed in due to the way the PCM interpolates between cells.

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Originally Posted by Tordne

Firstly, welcome to th forum!!

I'm going to start by asking that you followed the LC-1 tutorial and that you are satisfied that it and EFILive are configured so that the AFR readings derived from the LC-1 output voltage is correct :)

I generally try and have the average for a cell between 0.98 and 1.02. Now, there will be a wider variance that than for the min/max of a cell (generally - especiall under light loads/decel).

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Thanks! :cheers: I did setup the LC1 according to the tutorial, and it showed 19.99 AFR in EFILive with the engine off, and real close to 14.7 when the car has a solid idle and is just sitting there.

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Is this an M6 or A4 firstly? Because you mention RAFPN I'm inclined to think A4. If not, don;t worry about that cause an M6 is always considered to be "in gear".

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Didn't know this... good info, thank you. It's a six speed manual, so I'll just get rid of the RAFPN PID and MAP.

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Go to the File->Enter VIN menu in the Scan Tool and check that you have the correct Operating System listed. That may change them to valid PIDs...

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The OS which I had selected was 12593358. When I looked up the VIN on the GM website, it also showed my OS was 12593358. The notes for this OS on the GM site indicate it's an update to correct a fuel disable malfunction and that this OS supercedes several including 12221588. When I selected 12221588, my RAF PIDs lost their red Xs.

Should I just leave it at 12221588 and call it a day?

Thanks to both of you for the info on BEN factors to aim for.

:wave:

So your OS is 12593358 or 12221588? I have stock files for both on the tune repository if you actually wanted to update before starting.

I guess if you haven't started tuning you you may as well get the newer OS...

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Originally Posted by Tordne

So your OS is 12593358 or 12221588? I have stock files for both on the tune repository if you actually wanted to update before starting.

I guess if you haven't started tuning you you may as well get the newer OS...

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My OS appears to legitimately be 12593358 -- that is what was selected by default when I entered my VIN and connected EFILive, and that is what the GM website says my OS is. It also shows up as the OS ID inside the tuning program.

For whatever reason, Flashscan says I can't have the RAFIG supporting PIDs on 12593358, but it lets me have them with 12221588. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a database somewhere in the installation that will let me tell Flashscan that 12593358 should support the RAFIG PIDs? I am using version 7.3.2 IIRC.

Unfortunately when I connect to the vehicle, it automatically detects the 12593358 OS and I can't log RAFIG. So it seems there is nothing I can do to force it to think it's 12221588 to get those PIDs.

Is there a config file somewhere I can edit to tell EFILive my OS should support those PIDs?

do you have the appropriate supporting PID's selected (right click RAFIG and select more info)

I tested this also, and as soon as you select that OS all the Idle PIDs change to invalid. I asked Paul about this last night and it appears to be a problem with a lookup file that later OS unfortunately.

This will be corrected in the next update.

In the meantime I would recommend logging GM.DYNAIR and creating a Desired Airflow MAP using that PID to get your Desired Airflow table in line. This is what we used to do before the RAFIG PID, and this works very well also IMO.

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Originally Posted by Tordne

I tested this also, and as soon as you select that OS all the Idle PIDs change to invalid. I asked Paul about this last night and it appears to be a problem with a lookup file that later OS unfortunately.

This will be corrected in the next update.

In the meantime I would recommend logging GM.DYNAIR and creating a Desired Airflow MAP using that PID to get your Desired Airflow table in line. This is what we used to do before the RAFIG PID, and this works very well also IMO.

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OK, thanks Tordne. I'll change my map accordingly.

DYNAIR looks like an absolute value of calculated airflow... I assume I just need to use the absolute values reported by this PID and plug them into B4307? (e.g., it's not a value that I need to paste/add or paste/multiply)

:master: