PCM Conversion Information

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September 2nd, 2010
Taz
Hello Darren,

DBW and DBC applications have some overlap – the following are “general” applications.

DBC
- all ‘96+ Vortec PCM applications
- all ’98-’02 Camaro
- all ’99-’02 Gen III pickups / vans
- all ’99-’01 Gen III SUVs (some ’02 were DBW)
- all ’01-’04 LS1-B PCM V6 trucks (ie. S10 / Sierra)
- all ’04 GTO
- some ’03-’07 Gen III Express / Savana van
DBW
- all Corvette applications
- all L18 (8.1 L) engines
- all ’02+ Gen III Escalade / Denali
- some ’02 Gen III Tahoe / Yukon
- all ’03+ Gen III trucks
- some ’03-’07 Gen III Express / Savana van
Regards,
Taz
September 6th, 2010
TBMSport

Awesome thread. Subscribed. I will make my notes/revisions once we confirm all the do's and don't's of our 6L80 project!!
September 6th, 2010
Taz

Hello TBMSport,

Thanks for taking the time post. Glad this thread has met with approval. Your input would be greatly appreciated - we're a little light on some information - Gen IV specific (ECM # / TCM # / OS #) is definitely one of these areas.

Thanks again ....

Regards,
Taz
December 8th, 2010
turbo_bu

1 Attachment(s)

Recently was able to gleen a little data from ScarabEpic22 on the P10 / P12 PCM's.

As always, if you see any errors, please let me know.

Thanks,
December 8th, 2010
joecar

Thanks for updating the chart :cheers:
December 8th, 2010
ScarabEpic22

Nice, Im pretty sure about the 07 P12s being 58x/4x but Im talking with some guys who build the I6 and who are ripping down a few 07s to double check for me. Know 02-06 and 08-09s for sure though.
January 21st, 2011
GXP25

Great stuff!

If I may add: The E40 LS4 is 24X/1X. All '07+ (E67) LS4s are 58X/4X.

Also, the LS4 goes up to 2009 with the Impala SS and LaCrosse Super. So you will have to separate them under the "E67" row as the Grand Prix and Monte Carlo ended in '08 and '07 respectively.

As far as the LS2 TrailBlazer SS is concerned:

Quote:

A few points:

The 06 TBSS is a 24X engine with the E40 ECM.

The 07 and up TBSS is a 58x engine with an E67 ECM.

The 58X version can be run with either an E67 or an E38 (if doing an engine swap).

The 24X version runs with the E40 (or an older LS1 PCM if doing a swap).

ALL 2006 TBSS are 24X with E40.

The E40 will not run a 58X engine.

I believe the same applies to the 5.3L in the TrailBlazer as well.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...58x-24x.html#6
January 22nd, 2011
Taz
Hello GXP25,

I’m pleased the thread met with your approval. Darren (turbo_bu) had a great idea when he initiated this thread.

My experience is primarily with the Gen III - just getting into the Gen IV a little bit at present.

Your input is greatly appreciated - the accuracy of the information is very important to all. Just want to clarify your comment on the LS4. My understanding was that LS4 engines were Gen IV from their inception, with no transition from Gen III to Gen IV - as happened with the LS2. I have never disassembled an LS4 - so I'm not sure.

In Darren’s chart:
- 05-06 Grand Prix GXP and 06 Monte Carlo SS / Impala SS are listed as Gen IV - controlled by the E40 ECM
- 07-08 models are showed as controlled by the E67 ECM
- 09 models have yet to be added
Regards,
Taz
January 22nd, 2011
GXP25
Quote:

My understanding is that LS4 engines were Gen IV from their inception, with no transition from Gen III to Gen IV - as happened with the LS2.

That is correct.
Quote:
In Darren’s chart:

05-06 Grand Prix GXP and 06 Monte Carlo SS / Impala SS are listed as Gen IV - controlled by the E40 ECM
07-08 models are showed as controlled by the E67 ECM
09 models have yet to be added
That is correct as well, however, the crankshaft and camshaft sensor types need to be changed according to my previous post.
January 22nd, 2011
Taz

Hello GXP25,

Sorry, I should have been more clear …

Are you saying the 05-06 LS4 engines are actually Gen III variants (24x CKP / 1 CMP) like the early LS2 engines were ?

And that the LS4 engines transitioned to Gen IV variants (58x CKP / 4 CMP) in 2007 as did the later LS2 engines ?

If so, this would be very helpful to anyone considering an LS4 / 4T65 conversion (especially the Fiero die hards) - potentially allowing the use of a LS1-B PCM - which puts cruise control, Lean Cruise, DBC, and other options “back on the table”.

I greatly appreciate your input - we were lacking Gen IV information from reliable sources when putting the conversion chart together.

Regards,
Taz
January 22nd, 2011
GXP25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Hello GXP25,

Sorry, I should have been more clear …

Are you saying the 05-06 LS4 engines are actually Gen III variants (24x CKP / 1 CMP) like the early LS2 engines were ?

And that the LS4 engines transitioned to Gen IV variants (58x CKP / 4 CMP) in 2007 as did the later LS2 engines ?

Yes, even though they're officially classified as Gen IV engines. Then again, aren't all Gen IV engines based off of the Gen III design?

"Gen IV" doesn't necessarily equate to 58x/4x.

Quote:

If so, this would be very helpful to anyone considering an LS4 / 4T65 conversion (especially the Fiero die hards) - potentially allowing the use of a LS1-B PCM - which puts cruise control, Lean Cruise, DBC, and other options “back on the table”.

Have you been to fiero.nl lately? LS4 swaps are all over the place, lol.

Quote:

I greatly appreciate your input - we were lacking Gen IV information from reliable sources when putting the conversion chart together.

Regards,
Taz

Not a problem at all!
January 25th, 2011
turbo_bu

Sorry for not getting this updated sooner. Was out of town all last week. I have made the updates GXP25 / Taz have highlighted. One quick clarification: I was wanting to call out which of the 05-06 E40 LS4's came in from the factory. Guessing Impala SS / Grand Prix GXP / Monte Carlo???

Also, when did the V8's start in the Trail Blazers? Sounds like the 06 TBSS was a 24X E40. But were the 5.3's also the same (I would think so).
January 25th, 2011
odd boy

good info, thx for sharing
January 26th, 2011
ScarabEpic22

The 5.3 was offered in 03 for extended TrailBlazers and continued up through their demise in 09. SWB TrailBlazers got V8s in 06 with the TBSS (LS2) and the 5.3 LH6 being an option. However the Rainier and Envoy Denali got the 5.3 option in 05 IIRC (before DOD was introduced), in 06 DOD was standard.

Breakdown of how I see it:
02-04 TB LWB 5.3 V8s: LS1 PCM 24x/1x
05-06 5.3: E40 ECM 24x/1x
06 LS2: E40 ECM 24x/1x
07-08 5.3: E67 ECM 58x/4x
07-09 LS2: E67 ECM 58x/4x

02-05 4.2L I6s: P10 PCM 7x/1x?
06 I6: P12 PCM 1MB 7x/1x
07 I6: P12 PCM 2MB 7x/1x (updated 6-13-11)
(but 06 and 07 P12s dont interchange, different flash sizes)
08-09 I6s: E67 ECM 58x/4x? (not sure on cam reluctor)

The reason the years are only through 08 for the 5.3 is GM didnt make any 5.3L TBs for the half MY 09.
January 27th, 2011
turbo_bu

ScarabEpic,

Thanks for chiming in. I was hoping that you could clarify the TB stuff for us.

Anyone else have any info on years / models that the LS4 came in?

I will finish updating the spreadsheet and post the updated version in the next few days.

Thanks,
January 28th, 2011
turbo_bu

1 Attachment(s)

Here is the latest with the updates for LS4 and LS2 information. Please post up if there is anything that is incorrect.

Thanks,
January 28th, 2011
joecar

Thanks for the update.
January 31st, 2011
turbo_bu

1 Attachment(s)

Guys,

My apologies for the incorrect previous post. I did not quite clean up the E40 row with what has been documented by GXP25. Please delete the previous version for those of you following along at home.

Thanks,
June 12th, 2011
1FastBrick

LS1B Application DBW was availible around 2000 on SUV's and Trucks if you had features like Auto Ride or traction control. They are few and far between but they are out there.
June 12th, 2011
Taz

Hello 1FastBrick,

DBW was introduced on select 2002 truck / SUV (LS1B PCM) - these were a limited production run. All 8.1 L (LS1B PCM) were DBW.

Rgards,
Taz
June 13th, 2011
ScarabEpic22

I updated my post #56 with a little different information regarding 07 P12 I6s. Finally got verification what setup they use.
June 13th, 2011
1FastBrick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Hello 1FastBrick,

DBW was introduced on select 2002 truck / SUV (LS1B PCM) - these were a limited production run. All 8.1 L (LS1B PCM) were DBW.

Rgards,
Taz

I will try and get you Vin Numbers so you can look up the calibrations. One is a Tahoe the other was a 1500 V-8 Truck.
June 14th, 2011
doubledip

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22

I updated my post #56 with a little different information regarding 07 P12 I6s. Finally got verification what setup they use.

got service numbers to differentiate between years?
June 14th, 2011
ScarabEpic22

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubledip

got service numbers to differentiate between years?

I dont sorry, easiest way to tell is the 04-06 P12s are 1MB flash and 07s are 2MB. They both read out using the same bootloader so read it out and the software will tell you what it is. Or Im betting you could pull the calibration information using the Tune tool's PCM information window.
June 14th, 2011
1FastBrick

1 Attachment(s)

Here is the file from the DBW 2000 Chevy Tahoe I was reffering to. I don't have the file from the 01 truck but it was also equiped with traction controll, auto ride or active ride suspension and DBW. Never seen it on earler then 2000 LS1B Vehicals. Can get a 99 or 2000 vette too also equiped with DBW.
June 14th, 2011
Taz

Hello 1FastBrick,

That tune uses OS 12205612 (2000 truck). I have a 2000 DBC truck tune on file that uses that OS. Early DBW setups typically used their own unique OS. The Vehicle Platform Options in that tune file has "Electronic Throttle" denoted as "Yes".

Did you read the tune from the vehicle yourself, and visually confirm it was DBW ? The reason I ask, is that "shared" or "internet" tune files are often altered / corrupted in various ways.

I have never seen a 2000 (non 8.1 L) DBW truck in my area of the world - if they exist, they are rare indeed.

Regards,
Taz
June 14th, 2011
1FastBrick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Hello 1FastBrick,

That tune uses OS 12205612 (2000 truck). I have a 2000 DBC truck tune on file that uses that OS. Early DBW setups typically used their own unique OS. The Vehicle Platform Options in that tune file has "Electronic Throttle" denoted as "Yes".

Did you read the tune from the vehicle yourself, and visually confirm it was DBW ? The reason I ask, is that "shared" or "internet" tune files are often altered / corrupted in various ways.

I have never seen a 2000 (non 8.1 L) DBW truck in my area of the world - if they exist, they are rare indeed.

Regards,
Taz

Yes Taz,
I'm a mechanic by trade and pulled the calibration out my self just this morning! Just so happens he was in for an oil change. I made him wait and I hot lapped it home to get my laptop and V2
I also took pictures on my cell phone.
June 14th, 2011
1FastBrick

It has to do with traction controll and the autoride suspension. That 01 truck has it too but it been extensively modded and no one has the original OS file any more but I could get the vin number and you could check it out if you wanted too
June 14th, 2011
1FastBrick

Were all the LS1B Equiped 99-up corvettes DBW ??? If not I just pulled the calibration from one that is DBW from The Shop next door....
June 14th, 2011
1FastBrick

Oh and BTW TAZ I own a 2000 silverado that has that same OS but Is DBC so i understand the confussion. When this customer first brought in this tahoe I was like what the Heck I have never seen that before??? then i found a freind that bought that 01 truck that was also equiped with the DBW. We found out it was because of the traction controll and the auto ride or what ever they call that active susspension in the Suv's there few and far between. I am in california in a heavy populated area and those are the only 2 I have seen but they are factory equiped that way.
June 14th, 2011
Taz

Hello 1FastBrick,

Yes .... all Corvettes were DBW. Thanks for your patience on the DBW truck information, as you have discovered by now I try my best to accurately source information - so that we don't inadvertently lead each other astray on this Forum - based on assumption.

I found the traction control link to DBW in sub-2002 Gen III trucks odd - as 1999 to 2002 Camaros were exclusively DBC - and some where equipped with traction control.

I have never seen a sub-2002 non 8.1 L DBW truck (SUV) before .... most of the donor vehicles I use are pickups (not SUVs) ... still learn something everyday !

Regards,
Taz
June 18th, 2011
finiata

Being this started as a swap friendly thread I have a direct pcm/engine question. The parts are: 06' L33 (5.3 aluminum Truck block) & an 06' e40 and GTO harness. These both run 24X & 1X but the GTO has the cam sensor on the front, L33 in the back. Do the two sensors work the same? Everything is good except RPM's. I currently have the can signal coming from the rear. This can be moved or deleted, seems like those who may know are here though.

mike
June 18th, 2011
doubledip

Quote:

Originally Posted by finiata

Being this started as a swap friendly thread I have a direct pcm/engine question. The parts are: 06' L33 (5.3 aluminum Truck block) & an 06' e40 and GTO harness. These both run 24X & 1X but the GTO has the cam sensor on the front, L33 in the back. Do the two sensors work the same? Everything is good except RPM's. I currently have the can signal coming from the rear. This can be moved or deleted, seems like those who may know are here though.

mike

depending if you use front or rear cam sensor then decides how you wire your cam plug... front and rear cam sensors have different pin configuration...

but if you are having RPM problems then that sounds more like a crank sensor fault not cam.

cam sensor wired correctly means car starts fine.. wired incorrectly means hard to start and will make popping sounds on startup as it tries to figure out compression/exhauist strokes
June 18th, 2011
finiata

Yes the 12v and signal are reversed between the front and rear. I keep coming back to the crank. I'm wondering if the e40 I have was actually setup as a 58t and not a GTO e40. Can it be switched from one to another?
June 19th, 2011
doubledip

Quote:

Originally Posted by finiata

Yes the 12v and signal are reversed between the front and rear. I keep coming back to the crank. I'm wondering if the e40 I have was actually setup as a 58t and not a GTO e40. Can it be switched from one to another?

No E40 all 24x

is wiring correct.. you have 12V down at the sensor? you using a black sensor not grey/beige/cream in colour?
June 19th, 2011
finiata

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubledip

No E40 all 24x

is wiring correct.. you have 12V down at the sensor? you using a black sensor not grey/beige/cream in colour?

See. This is what confuses me. This thread has a file that says some of the e40's were indeed 58t, so what gives? Yep wiring is correct, yep got 12 on the blue/white wire and yep its the black sensor, tested the wiring and the sensor. If there is truly no 58t e40 I'm screwed and the motor will have to back out because its a reluctor wheel issue. I'm pretty much disgusted at this point.

thanks
June 19th, 2011
joecar

LPE sells a 58x->24x module for converting the 58x pulsetrain to the equivalent 24x encoded pulsetrain for 411 and E40.
June 19th, 2011
joecar

See the pdf in post #60 above: CKP/CMP reluctor info
June 19th, 2011
finiata

Sorta muddied this thread I started another for this issue, I'll post there. thanks
June 19th, 2011
Taz

Quote:

Originally Posted by finiata

See. This is what confuses me. This thread has a file that says some of the e40's were indeed 58t, so what gives?

Hello Finiata,

My apologies for the E40 confusion in this thread - as Doubledip stated E40's are 24x CKP only. This was one of the first threads I collaborated on when I joined the Forum. I contributed a lot of the LS1-B information - which in my mind was accurate at the time - although I still learn new things about the LS1-B PCM.

The rest of the information in the thread was from various contributors and sourced where possible.

There is a subsequent discussion in the thread regarding all LS4 engines having 24x CKP setups. What is not implicitly stated - based on this, and other information, is that E40s were only used on 24x CKP setups.

The prior belief that some of the LS2 / LS4 using the E40 had 58x CKP was inaccurate.

Regards,
Taz

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