Bill,Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS
I clicked on your red link and it takes me here: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx
Anyway, I say the best fluid to use is the one you're comfortable with.
Joe
:cheers:
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Bill,Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS
I clicked on your red link and it takes me here: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx
Anyway, I say the best fluid to use is the one you're comfortable with.
Joe
:cheers:
Has the tutorial been removed from here?
It is a dead link. :help2:
I looked in the tutorial section but maybe I was not looking hard enough.
Anyone got the latest transmission tutorial from this thread handy?
I am running a strengthened 4L60E transmission with a 3500 hi-stall and find I notice when at light throttle the shift from 2-3 a little sloppy, or somewhat sometimes jurky and just does not feel smooth when input torque is approx 68nm. Give it some foot and it shifts good. All other gears are good.
If I am on 'very' light throttle and low speed it seems fine also. Just seems to have a little prob at about the 60-75nm mark on the 2-3 shift.
could this possibly be a too lower line pressure for this torque range on the 2-3 shift? I have found for some reason the base pressure for 2-3 {D0702} is all set to 0kpa between 0 to 80nm and then jumps to 13.8 at the 100nm row.
Could I safely try increasing these slightly above 0 say between 5 - 12kpa respectively with evenly increased increments and see if this helps for torque values above 40nm through to 80nm rows?
Note: I checked TR and is already set to 0 at these torque input values in concern.
Is there anything important I should also know about the Low Pressure Adjust tables?
Also with Desired Shift Times, were these the tables (such as {D1109} 2-3) recommended to set to 0.0 with a built transmission to prevent the adaptive learning? or should these not be touched?
Any info greatly appreciated for this newbie :cheers:
So far EFILive and this forum = much fun :D
Sorry my broadband has died. Ill email it to Tordne perhaps he can host on his site!?
See my shift pressure tables below, these are about on the upper limit of how far I would adjust them, some people would go furtherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jphdg
(sorry, I didn't convert to Nm...).
Do you get chirp on 1-2 and 2-3...?Quote:
Note: I checked TR and is already set to 0 at these torque input values in concern.
These are used by adaptive learning and my understanding is that they limit the amount of adjustment that AL makes, but I haven't spent enough time playing with these so I don't know.Quote:
Is there anything important I should also know about the Low Pressure Adjust tables?
Built trans or shift kit, the consensus is 0.0s for these.Quote:
Also with Desired Shift Times, were these the tables (such as {D1109} 2-3) recommended to set to 0.0 with a built transmission to prevent the adaptive learning? or should these not be touched?
That has to be an understatement... :D :cheers:Quote:
So far EFILive and this forum = much fun :D
I just had my tranny upgraded and the builder insisted I use:Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Allison TranSynd trans fluid.= synthetic
Amsoil makes a similar type for less $.
Your trusted trans. builder insisted on either of these, interesting... :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by jfpilla
I use M1 mostly because I can get it at a moment's notice at the local AutoZone, but I was considering Amsoil, and I like Amsoil as a company better than Mobil (...maybe I should become a distributor...).
I can host it if Tordne can not. E-Mail me the latest version and will get it copied tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ringram
Bill
:beer: :wave:
He insisted on the Allison Transynd. But said Amsoil's, "New AMSOIL Torque-Drive Synthetic ATF Provides Excellent Protection for Allison® Transmissions", was good too. Since he warrantees the trans for a year and GM doesn't care anymore it's easy. I thought you would be interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Thanks guys for comments, and I look forward to have a read of the tuturial when it comes around again.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
I converted my tables over to PSI / Ft-LBS and have found they are considerably lower and a lot more conservative than yours joecar.
I noted yours are much higher than mine in the lower torque range as well, hence may be why I find the 2-3 shift in particular a little sloppy at low engine torque compared to higher power rows.
I find I have trouble holding traction, even if I ease the throttle on from 0 to WOT before the 1-2 change. The cam and hi-stall with a 3.73 ratio are definately to blame for that. :D Usually it spins with a violent roar and will hit 2nd quite firm and really send the back end out, however if lead into 2nd without spin and then mash it, it does not chirp 2-3 usually if above the kick back speed and just throws you back at 3500rpm and drops through the gears nice but I think my converter softens much of the blows somewhat to tickle the back end again on a 2-3 upshift.
I guess this weekend I might up my pressures a little at a time and see if it improves things. I understand you must avoid above 90psi in any gear on any part of the tables as you cause wear to the pump or could blow out the valves in the transmission. I think mine are very conservative as max seems to be at only 72PSI in the performance mode at max engine torque in the 2-3 shift base pressure table, and 78psi for max torque in 3-4.
1-2 are lower again, but it seems fairly punchy anyway there and quite fine.
So I guess I might aim for my max to be no more than 80psi for high torque values and just increase them more in the lower ranges particularly from just below where I am noticing the sloppy shifting and see if it improves things there.
:cheers:
If you wanted to control the violent spin, try adding some torque reduction back in on the 1-2 shift and see what happens (TR kicks in for about 0.2s on upshift).Quote:
I find I have trouble holding traction, even if I ease the throttle on from 0 to WOT before the 1-2 change. The cam and hi-stall with a 3.73 ratio are definately to blame for that. :D Usually it spins with a violent roar and will hit 2nd quite firm and really send the back end out, however if lead into 2nd without spin and then mash it, it does not chirp 2-3 usually if above the kick back speed and just throws you back at 3500rpm and drops through the gears nice but I think my converter softens much of the blows somewhat to tickle the back end again on a 2-3 upshift.
Some people can get away with cranking those pressures up alot, but not everyone is so lucky; you have to watch out on a built unit or with a shift kit as these already have the line pressure upped.Quote:
I guess this weekend I might up my pressures a little at a time and see if it improves things. I understand you must avoid above 90psi in any gear on any part of the tables as you cause wear to the pump or could blow out the valves in the transmission. I think mine are very conservative as max seems to be at only 72PSI in the performance mode at max engine torque in the 2-3 shift base pressure table, and 78psi for max torque in 3-4.
1-2 are lower again, but it seems fairly punchy anyway there and quite fine.
That sounds good; make sure you log after making any changes:Quote:
So I guess I might aim for my max to be no more than 80psi for high torque values and just increase them more in the lower ranges particularly from just below where I am noticing the sloppy shifting and see if it improves things there.
SAE.VSS
SAE.RPM
SAE.TP
SAE.MAP
SAE.MAF
SAE.ECT
SAE.IAT
GM.DYNAIR
GM.TFT
GM.GEAR
GM.TCCMODE
GM.SHIFTLAST
GM.SHIFTDELAY
GM.TFMPRS
GM.TRQENG
Let us know how you go and post some log chart images.
Regards
Joe
:cheers:
Yes, that is interesting, thanks. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by jfpilla
GM.TRQENG allows you to link from scan log to tune table so you can see where on the pressure tables you're at.
Ok, so I forgot you can attach files to posts now..
Anyway here is the magic document with most of the info from this thread.
Ill add in Joecar's shift pressure pics and update the doco in the next few days. In the meantime, go and break traction with this doc.
Thanks again guys, Appreciate the advice and comments. I shell grab that PDF and have a read and will see how things go this weekend.
:cheers:
I have a stock transmission with Transmax Z and im using a Yank SS3600 converter.
I want to setup just a drag transmission tune.
At present im considering just going the full hog
Full line pressure 662Kpa 96psi
zero shift times
no torque management
I have been racing it often at about 0.2-0.3
and 91psi
I assume at 11.781 with 1.61 60 footer i am making the top of the table
so i have the last 4 cells in the tran pressure table set to the highest pressure
WOT trans pressure is set at the factory for A4's. It can only be changed mechanically. When you change pressure you are changing part throttle pressure only.
My TRQENG is lucky if its 283Nm near my change points - taken during a log in 11.768 run.
See this diagram (scroll down to Common Hydraulic Functions): showpost.php?p=21221&postcount=5
It shows that the PCS solenoid does not directly control "Line" pressure, but rather it regulates "Torque Signal" pressure [from AFL pressure] which assists the Pressure Regulator valve via the Boost valve/spring (see items 1a, 1b, 1c).
(the AFL valve/sping limits the pressure going into the PCS solenoid to a max of 96-100 psi)
So PCS pressure in the range 0-96 psi indirectly controls Line pressure in the range 50-230 psi.
The PCS solenoid has a calibration screw in the back of it;
turning this screw in 1/8 turn will firm everything up quite a bit, so if you do this watch out,
use a pressure gauge on the Line tap (side of case above shift linkage) to monitor Line pressure.
A more correct name for PCS/TFM pressure is "Torque Signal pressure".
In the pressure tables, make sure you're at 90+ psi starting from well below 283Nm/208fllb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
208ftlb, that's real low, should be getting 350+ftlb, did I convert that correctly...?
What is your GM.DYNAIR like (does it climb to 300+g/s as RPM climbs during WOT)...?
What do your VE and spark tables look like...?
If you have a log showing the following pids please post a pic:
SAE.VSS
SAE.RPM
SAE.TP
SAE.MAP
SAE.MAF
SAE.ECT
SAE.IAT
GM.DYNAIR
GM.TFT
GM.GEAR
GM.TCCMODE
GM.SHIFTLAST
GM.SHIFTDELAY
GM.TFMPRS
GM.TRQENG
Is traction control kicking in...?
Is B1901 is set too low...?
The GMTRQ is weirdly low it seems.
my g/cylinder looks normal and my VE table is set to give 330g/s or so at WOT at full rpm. Timing is giving 28.5 deg. In the middle of the gear in logs the highest GMTRQ i see is 319Nm which is still miles too low.
I'm new to all this programming stuff and I have to say hello to all of you, and thanks for all the good information on this post. I have been trying to get my 1-2 shift a little less. When if shifts it breaks the tires loose and I get all over the road, this has happened at the track as well. I will try some of the things on this post to see if I can get it better. Thanks again for all the good info..:wave:
What would be considered to high for the shift pressure??
ytry, hi there and welcome... :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by ytry
One of the things you can try is adding some torque reduction on the 1-2 shift (table D0801), see if that makes any difference.
Regards
Joe
:cheers:
I just logged torque tonight again
and got some peak readings (just two brief blasts of WOT)
TRQENG 416ftlb
TRQTRANS 419ftlb
but in the metric sections these values were shown
TRQENG 307Nm
TRQTRANS 309Nm
Now somethings not right here Nm is meant to bigger
using the usual 1.355 x factor
It should be around
564Nm which sounds like a sensible number. Why is EFIlive doing this?
Let's play with the numbers...Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
416 * 1.356 = 564
416 / 1.356 = 307
Hmmm... it would appear that EFILive is dividing instead of multiplying to get the torque numbers.
ok thanks for the info, what % would be safe to start with?
Your Torque Reduction D0801 is 0% now...?Quote:
Originally Posted by ytry
Try setting it to 20% and adjust from there.
Yes it is 0 I will try that and get back with you , thanks again for the help..
How is TRQENG calculated ? Just wondering if its a valuable way of measuring gains in power??
Today mine did 440ftlb = 596Nm.
I know a while ago it never could go above 432ftlb in the logs ie 585Nm
It's the PCM's way of computing torque; I don't know how accurate it is; the PCM uses dynair and advance (among other things) to compute it; PCM uses it to index the trans. tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
Was anything different today that you think could be responsible for the relative gain...?
It was just a bit cooler
and yesterdays log was at a higher altitude as well.
How can i simply get the Nm displaying properly. I cant find any files in the config area that i can edit to fix it???
Paul pm'd me saying he's on it. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
Use ft/lb :)
Ok I have turned my tr down and it shifts a lot better, just cherps the tires, however now i'm getting 2.5 kr? is there a timing factor i need to set as well?:master: this happens when i let off the gas not WOT..ok also here is a log with 2.9 kr here is what i have so far. I had pcmforless tune my pcm and now that i have EFI live i can see what he done, he had all the tr to 0's line pressure was up to 80.000000 here is what it is now.base pre, 1-2 shift
0.000000
0.000000
0.000000
0.000000
0.000000
0.000000
3.000000
9.000000
10.203125
14.281250
18.359375
22.437500
26.531250
30.593750
34.000000
36.718750
40.125000
42.843750
46.234375
48.968750
52.359375
55.078125
59.156250
62.562500
65.281250
64.437500
65.953125
65.953125
66.703125
66.703125
68.218750
68.2187507
i have taken tr 1-2 shift to 20% because i was blowing the tires away even at the track, it shifted very hard.tr 2-3 and 3-4 are set to 0.'snot to sure what i'm missing could anyone help me out? here is a log with 2.9 this is kicking down from 2 to 1. ok sorry maybe someone can tell me how to put the attachment on here.LOL sorry for the trouble..:bash:
Joecar
I just changed all my shoft pressures in power mode to be the same as yours and it feels good. The car seems to be accelerating quicker at part throttle than before.
I have a stock 4L60e with a Yank SS3600 and im using Transmax z - also it has a big B&M Cooler in front of the radiator.
My shift times are set at
1-2
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.268750
0.250000
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
2-3
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.300000
0.293750
0.268750
0.237500
0.200000
0.187500
0.175000
0.175000
0.175000
0.175000
0.175000
In normal mode i have less pressure.
eg
In PSI not % it is
0
0
0
0
3
7
10
12
13
15
18
20
24
27
30
34
37
41
45
50
59
65
74
80
85
90
90
90
90
90
90
90
90
1-2
0.331250
0.331250
0.331250
0.331250
0.331250
0.331250
0.331250
0.300000
0.268750
0.250000
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
0.237500
2-3
0.350000
0.350000
0.350000
0.350000
0.350000
0.343750
0.318750
0.293750
0.268750
0.237500
0.200000
0.187500
0.175000
0.175000
0.175000
0.175000
0.175000
I wanted to know if people thought the numbers above are OK for the gearbox. I put the normal mode back to stock GTS normal pressure and it seemed quite slippery and lazy on the changes.
Its a matter of doing whats best for the box.
Ok kewl how can i change it to psi? I would rather have it that way I think. Again thanks for this post I think it has made a huge impact.
Ok I have mine at psi already sorry,, the torque management is % and I added 20 % to my 1st to 2nd shift and it helped, I didn't want to have to much pressure and then take the TM to 20% and maybe cause dammage..
Hey mate, no trouble at all, no worries. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by ytry
When the scan tool is displaying the log chart, do PrintScreen on your keyboard,
and then use something like IrfanView (freeware www.irfanview.com) to paste and crop the image into a .png file,
then goto http://imageshack.us and upload your image file (if you register (free) you can manage your uploaded images);
copy the "direct" link, reply to this thread, press the yellow/grey "mountain" picture button and paste in the link and save the reply.
It could be that after you add TR the engine now gets loaded from the tires not spinning as much;
you may need to add more fuel in PE or add a little more TR, or we'll just look at the log chart first.
Those numbers look good, but I can tell better if there's a picture, try the imageshack thingy I posted above (1 pic == 1000 words) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Flyer
Even in Normal mode (you have a Normal/Performance switch on your console, right...?) you want more shift pressure and less shift time than factory stock; the stock feel isn't impressive at all, not worthy of a muscle car; and any noticeable slip will definitely kill the trans. over a period of time (creates heat and clutch/band material particles and wastes energy).
Higher shift pressure and lower shift times reduce the time that ramp up/down slip occurs (the apply component is ramping up while the releasing component is ramping down).
Rules of thumb:
Too little or too much is bad.
If the shift is slow/sloppy/indefinite, then that's bad (wears clutches/band, burns ATF which fries seals).
If the shift is harsh/jerking/violent, then that's bad (breaks hard components).
If the shift is firm/quick/positive then that's good.
Log whenever you can (BB) so you can monitor the trans (that was a good catch on the Nm being low).
:cheers:
Post some pictures of your trans. tables from the tune tool (using the imageshack thing) if you can.Quote:
Originally Posted by ytry
Ringram, thanks for updating the PDF, appreciate the effort, good work, mate. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by ringram