Diesel tuning restrictions for USA customers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF62J...youtu.be&t=33s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by schwoch1

I was also waiting for this to come, it was just a matter of time. I also hate to say, just like the region specific coding on DVD's, I give it about a month before the region coding is figured out on EFI Live and this will be a moot point......
Also, I am sure that the moderaters will be busy locking/deleting threads pertaining to this just like they are on other forums. If you need someone to blame, blame the idiot smoking out intersections and four lanes of traffic in your city's downtown!
Just my $.02, please don't ask for change!

Mike

---

+1

For example, look at the vid in post #3 here (which Ross linked as a example): EDIT: Link removed, nobody would see it, it's in the beta area.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMPX

For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers. [/LIST]

---

If I'm reading this correctly, I will be able to flash old tunes with EGR/DPF changes still there but not have the ability to edit them after updating to new versions?

glad to here that youre not lumping us canadians in with the epa nazi's in the usa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joecar

+1

For example, look at the vid in post #3 here (which Ross linked as a example): Well-that-little-announcement-really-sucks

---

The link says I don't have permissions to access....

I think my last post got missed accidentally, but is this change only going to effect the DPF system or will EGR also get pulled?

This was going to happen with time no matter what IMO. I respect EFI's postion and there solution to keep the EPA off there backs. If EFI has to spends weeks if not months and tens of thousands of dollars defending there self in court nobody still won. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles and move on. If you want to blame anyone blame our current government in the US and not EFI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catman3126

HMM so if theres only one download how will it be different for what region we live in?

---

My *guess* is registered VIN.

http://www.analogx.com/cgi-bin/cgivi...&Submit=Decode

Someone have a VIN for a non US truck ?

Or it will be via the IP address that the computer doing the tuning is connected to when a new VIN license is issued.

Maybe I should have kept that quiet...

I have my own opinion on what the software will look for to determine if you are in the states or not, and I am going to assume it is right on your computer. I will guess also that it will not be IP or VIN based either, but again, I could be totally wrong!
Just my opinion again!!

Mike

i hope it not vin based a the trucks we get in canada are made in us and mexico

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tokymon

i hope it not vin based a the trucks we get in canada are made in us and mexico

---

I am not sure, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that it is not VIN based, almost 100% sure of that!

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tokymon

i hope it not vin based a the trucks we get in canada are made in us and mexico

---

I would think the VIN corresponds to the country it was sold in and not the country of manufacture. For example, most 4th gen F-bodies were made in Canada but those that came to the US still has US VINs on them.

Just a guess.

I just hate the we have to tune in secret and now the company can no longer help with issues that have come up with the removal of the epa crap. I understand why it has to be this way but I would love to see the american companies and people put a leash on the epa and their stupid Obama agenda. As they say it is what its is and I will be who I am regardless of what the future holds. Maybe the People who wanted four more year will see their flaws and not let it happen again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Halo

I just hate the we have to tune in secret and now the company can no longer help with issues that have come up with the removal of the epa crap. I understand why it has to be this way but I would love to see the american companies and people put a leash on the epa and their stupid Obama agenda. As they say it is what its is and I will be who I am regardless of what the future holds. Maybe the People who wanted four more year will see their flaws and not let it happen again.

---

I don't want a discussion in politics, but the EPA has been around since the 70's. If you want to see some of the impacts they have had in the gasser industry google Casper Electronics.

Cheers
Cindy

I am fully aware, I just think its getting out of hand

Well said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by minytrker

This was going to happen with time no matter what IMO. I respect EFI's postion and there solution to keep the EPA off there backs. If EFI has to spends weeks if not months and tens of thousands of dollars defending there self in court nobody still won. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles and move on. If you want to blame anyone blame our current government in the US and not EFI.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WyoFreeride

Will this affect your development for new ECMs (ie CM2200) that aren't supported yet? Will the emissions stuff be addressed on those new ECMs for areas outside the US still?

---

At this point our development priority hasn't changed, but we will do a full review of planned support and order of support early in the new year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX

This is what horrifies me....

I have duramax stream licenses, cummins tuning license, etc... So basically my V2 is "worth" a lot more than most of the V2's out there....so yes I do take extra special care of it and try not to let it out of my sight.

BUT!!!! God forbid, the thing breaks or something and I have to have it fixed (and then I send it to be fixed, and then you guys put the latest firmware/boot block on it).....would it be possible to downgrade the firmware/boot block on the V2 to the old version that still works with Build 211 tuning tool???

thats what scares me....I can deal with running Build 211 forever (I only tune very few cummins's, so not getting access to CSP5 isnt the end of the world for me), what if the above scenario happens (V2 breaks or something) and Im "forced" into updating firmware/boot block????

Ben

---

If your V2 needs to be fixed or replaced, you won't be 'forced' to do anything. If you chose to have it repaired through an authorized agent or replaced using the license recovery scheme your unit will be returned to you with current bootblock and firmware. Bootblock/firmware cannot be downgraded.

Cheers
Cindy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cindy@efilive

If your V2 needs to be fixed or replaced, you won't be 'forced' to do anything. If you chose to have it repaired through an authorized agent or replaced using the license recovery scheme your unit will be returned to you with current bootblock and firmware. Bootblock/firmware cannot be downgraded.

Cheers
Cindy

---

Alright so basically if I need to have my V2 repaired (or replaced due to loss/theft) down the road after the "non-DPF" updates come out...Ill be out of luck, because when I get my repaired V2 back it will have the newest "non-DPF" firmware in it?

Sorry If im misunderstanding you Cindy, I just want to make sure im following you correctly.

thanks
Ben

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX

Alright so basically if I need to have my V2 repaired (or replaced due to loss/theft) down the road after the "non-DPF" updates come out...Ill be out of luck, because when I get my repaired V2 back it will have the newest "non-DPF" firmware in it?

Sorry If im misunderstanding you Cindy, I just want to make sure im following you correctly.

thanks
Ben

---

You understand correctly, we won't install old firmware/bootblocks, and we won't change our software structure to allow those to be downgraded.

Cheers
Cindy

Will Unit pricing go down or up because of reduced functionality?

My guess would be no, but figured it was worth a shot lol.

So what happens if someone from the US buys a Delete tune from a Canadian tuner?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmaz2689

Will Unit pricing go down or up because of reduced functionality?

My guess would be no, but figured it was worth a shot lol.

---

Its not EFI Live causing the trouble, its the US government. If you move outside of the US it wouldn't be an issue.

How precisely will this effect the "dinger" fix that is forthcoming?

Will it be a simple tune file fix or will an upgraded V2 be in order?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CBlack

How precisely will this effect the "dinger" fix that is forthcoming?

Will it be a simple tune file fix or will an upgraded V2 be in order?

---

There will be no additional software releases for parameters prior to the release of the country of residence restrictions. ie. You won't have access to the chime fix, or CSP functionality (when it's released) if you don't upgrade.

It will be a simple tune fix but you will need to update. There is no hardware changes, only software changes.

Cheers
Cindy

Come on guy's quit asking questions they can't answer. This isn't something they like. Its bound to hurt business in one form or fashion. However, the world isn't going to end. The sky is still there and isn't going to fall.

Read between the lines and you'll have your answer to everything you desire. Its not that complicated.

I would like to thank EFI for giving us what we have. And hope that in the future we will still be a valuable region to continue to support and improve on...:angel_innocent:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davematthews

Come on guy's quit asking questions they can't answer. This isn't something they like. Its bound to hurt business in one form or fashion. However, the world isn't going to end. The sky is still there and isn't going to fall.

Read between the lines and you'll have your answer to everything you desire. Its not that complicated.

I would like to thank EFI for giving us what we have. And hope that in the future we will still be a valuable region to continue to support and improve on...:angel_innocent:

---

I agree 100%. I am guessing anyone with half a brain will be able to figure out how to be out of the country while tuning :) Luckily, I am only a 7 hour drive from Canada, so I guess I will have to use that option every time I need to help out that person with their 'race truck'.... :)

But seriously, now a days, it only takes people a matter of time to figure out how to bypass anything, it is just going to be one of them deals where no one will talk about it in public. All the deletes are still going to happen in the US, but when the EPA looks at the program the ability will be gone.
Again, just my opinion!

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LinearX

I would think the VIN corresponds to the country it was sold in and not the country of manufacture. For example, most 4th gen F-bodies were made in Canada but those that came to the US still has US VINs on them.

Just a guess.

---

4th gen F-body VIN's start with "2" which means Canada... so my guess is it can't be VIN based;

but regardless, we should feel privileged that the EPA still lets us drive vehicles (instead of horses or goats).

I like how EFI Live has handled this and I applaud them for their approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by someguy

I like how EFI Live has handled this and I applaud them for their approach.

---

X2

Read between the lines

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by schwoch1

I agree 100%. I am guessing anyone with half a brain will be able to figure out how to be out of the country while tuning :) Luckily, I am only a 7 hour drive from Canada, so I guess I will have to use that option every time I need to help out that person with their 'race truck'.... :)

But seriously, now a days, it only takes people a matter of time to figure out how to bypass anything, it is just going to be one of them deals where no one will talk about it in public. All the deletes are still going to happen in the US, but when the EPA looks at the program the ability will be gone.
Again, just my opinion!

Mike

---

I agree 100 %

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by someguy

I like how EFI Live has handled this and I applaud them for their approach.

---

x3

I'd hate to lose EFI Live all together if the EPA decided to ban import of the V2, hosing up both the diesel and gas tuning for everyone. Its a great tool still, even without the DPF stuff (which is why I personally bought a V2 to begin with, but never got to use those functions). At least their chosen method wont break any existing tunes, and development can continue forward for everyone else besides us poor suckers living in the US.

You guys should quit asking questions about how to beat the system, they clearly can't answer them and you are just bringing light to potential loop holes that will have to be investigated outside of EFI Live for RACE applications only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR

How will this apply to vehicles such as designated race trucks that are not required to have a DPF and are not registered in any way for road useage? What about for retrofits of putting a newer diesel into an older body style that is emissions exempt, or the DPF is not required for the older truck to meet it's emssions output(like my SUBURBAN which meets all emssions criteria for 95 without any of this equipment)? Just curious if this will affect all USA customers even the ones who can LEGALLY remove the emissions equipment for there intended purposes.

---

As I understand the law, when upgraded an engine you must install the emissions equipment that the engine was certified with. Therefore if you install an LMM into your Suburban you legally are supposed to install a DPF on your Suburban irrelevant of the chassis age.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joecar

4th gen F-body VIN's start with "2" which means Canada... so my guess is it can't be VIN based;

but regardless, we should feel privileged that the EPA still lets us drive vehicles (instead of horses or goats).

---

Well, that shows what I know. :D

I am glad for the transparency into this process, as well as the warning time we got. I am sad that this has to happen, but the US EPA is to blame, not EFI. They are just trying to protect themselves and their product, since the EPA has decided that "off road only" warnings and waivers don't cut it anymore, and they will go after the tool provider, not the too "abuser".

It seems EFI has taken the most reasonable action to this problem that they could, IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TDFDiesel

As I understand the law, when upgraded an engine you must install the emissions equipment that the engine was certified with. Therefore if you install an LMM into your Suburban you legally are supposed to install a DPF on your Suburban irrelevant of the chassis age.

---

I believe this depends on your state.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TDFDiesel

As I understand the law, when upgraded an engine you must install the emissions equipment that the engine was certified with. Therefore if you install an LMM into your Suburban you legally are supposed to install a DPF on your Suburban irrelevant of the chassis age.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAVe3283

I believe this depends on your state.

---

And sometimes the age and useage of a vehicle. Use the truck that they were building on GEARZ with a DURAMAX, I highly doubt anywhere would require it go through emissions quite simply due to it's age. Yes some states require you to use the emissions equipment that your donor engine came with, and the engine must be newer than the engine it was replacing. That was one of the reasons I chose an LB7 as it had no CAT which meant LEGALLY I could remove my cat converter from my BURB that it came with stock. there is alot of grey area in engine swaps which was one of the nice things about EFILIVE that gave us great flexibility to work within the rules. As they say, all good things must come to an end, and this one is no different. MAYBE, just MAYBE we can open some peoples eyes to the fact that going out and rolling coal isn't cool anymore and is simply drawing attention to a matter that shouldn't be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR

And sometimes the age and useage of a vehicle. Use the truck that they were building on GEARZ with a DURAMAX, I highly doubt anywhere would require it go through emissions quite simply due to it's age. Yes some states require you to use the emissions equipment that your donor engine came with, and the engine must be newer than the engine it was replacing. That was one of the reasons I chose an LB7 as it had no CAT which meant LEGALLY I could remove my cat converter from my BURB that it came with stock. there is alot of grey area in engine swaps which was one of the nice things about EFILIVE that gave us great flexibility to work within the rules. As they say, all good things must come to an end, and this one is no different. MAYBE, just MAYBE we can open some peoples eyes to the fact that going out and rolling coal isn't cool anymore and is simply drawing attention to a matter that shouldn't be.

---

Could not agree more with this statement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WyoFreeride

x3

I'd hate to lose EFI Live all together if the EPA decided to ban import of the V2, hosing up both the diesel and gas tuning for everyone. .

---

Unfortunately, I was thinking the same thing............
There would still be back door ways into the country, still wouldn't be a huge deal. Just would have to import it from Canada. Just another step and more money, but well worth the cost!

Mike

Well I can say I have been sprayed by the black soot while on the motorcycle, not cool, but hate any kind of enforced restrictions by the EPA.

If you have a tuned 6.7 truck (deleted) and update everything, will you loose the deletes on that truck?

Tobin

Thank you EFI for being open about removal of functionality instead of surprising us. Maybe one day we Americans can get our EPA back in check.

I just want to verify that any tune already with the deletes in place will not revert with the updates and all we are losing is the ability to disable the dpf regenerative system? I know this was discussed but I didn't see an actual answer. I apologize if I missed it.