Thanks for the update.
Bill
:D
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Thanks for the update.
Bill
:D
This is going to take away the fun of the many hours of constant logging and tuning sesions! http://www.z06vette.com/forums/image...s/icon_lol.gif
I am sure you could still do it the old way.. :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by johnsZ06
Bill
so this will only work with with the commercial version? no chance of getting it just for the people at home with the personal version?
and this will support a 2 or 3 bar map setup, so those of us wanting to run FI will be able to take full advantage of this??
This is sounding great
Thanks
ed
Will there be a "how to" for using AutoTune (with and without a MAF)?
Is this Auto-Tune capability in the new 7.2.1 pre-release :?:
Yes.
Want to give me a clue as to where? I can't see anything in the documentation (doesn't appear to be updated), and can't see any new menus etc. in either the Scan or Tune tools.
Cheers.
Its' not a menu item as such.
It's a sequence of steps that you need to perform. Each step in the sequence has a corresponding task that can now be performed by the Scan Tool software.
A tutorial will be posted soon.
Regards
Paul
Tried out the new auto tune feature today and was pasting as factor with label as suggested by a beta tester but have found that if you past a cell that has a 0% LTFT then it kind of muddles things up and puts the VE table out of whack.
Need to somehow modify the filter to exclude cells @ 0%.
EDIT: Duh, I was using the LTFT MAPs instead of the new BEN maps. No need for another filter as the BEN maps show 1.00 if it cell doesn't need to be changed.
Ignore my ramblings. They were totally wrong.
Have since worked out the right way to do it. Need to command Open Loop and will see how we go this time.
jsttry, do you have a wideband O2 sensor? A wideband is the key piece to performing the "auto-tune" steps.
One uses the wideband to measure commanded vs. actual air fuel ratios. This difference factor is then copied and pasted into the VE. When I've done the "auto-tune", the commanded vs. actual air:fuel ratio is typically in the 0.98 to 1.02 range which means my VE is +/- two percent off.
If you're using the LTFTs to tune instead if a wideband, copy and paste the table in sections - skipping over the cells with zeros in them. And save up for a wideband!
:wink:
This is very similar the method NoGo posted on LS1Tech. Worked pretty well for me. EFILive sure makes things easier and more exact (to boot)!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterSS
Cheers,
joel
Should this be an average of both ltft bank 1 and ltft bank 2 not just 1 of the banks?
http://www.purplegto.com/files/veavg.PNG
Just checking
I'm new to this, so dont shoot me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "magic PID" is the Base Efficiency Numerator calculation for the various wideband sensors. This should give a VE multiplication factor for each MAP:RPM cell. Going to try it today :)
Great! Let us know how things go. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Draco
Cheers,
joel
Well, my MAF is still connected right now but will be disconnecting it soon to do an SD tune. I have a Wideband Commander so I had to create my own AFR and Base Efficiency PID for this particular wideband. Here is a screenie of my MAP vs Base Efficiency numerator map, which can be pasted into my VE table as a factor to update the tune.
This seems so easy it makes me laugh out loud and wonder if I am doing this right or not.
Could someone please post the magic steps to performing this auto-tune? I have just recently gone MAFless and have some issues to resolve. I have some dyno time booked today and would really like to use this new functionality if possible.
I am already in SD mode, and have a WB02.
Is this tune done under normal driving conditions, that is without commanding the AFR to 13:1?
Does it have to be done in Close Loop?
Do you disable DFCO or Lean Cruise?
Would really appreciate it someone could enlighten me.
Cheers.
Not sure why everyone is saying you have to cut the factor and paste in groups.
I just did a complete block copy 800rpm - 6000, 15-105 MAP from scan to tune, just make sure you select the identicle cells from one to the other.
This ROCKS!!!! HpWHO???? lsWHAT??? ;) EFI!! EFI!!! EFI!!!!
Dang I was close doing it the old fashioned way. Had to just sit down and read the thread ( OVER AND OVER )
AAAAAhhhhh to bads its already so late I would go out and flash this puppy and go for a quick ride.
http://www.purplegto.com/files/new_ve_autotune.PNG
Haven't had a chance to "auto VE" my latest tune yet.
Attached is the BEN factor using one of my early tunes done the "old fashioned way."
Next time, the "new way" will be much faster and more accurate!
Looks like I need more data @ 8000 rpm. :D
Cut and paste in groups is only necessary (to avoid the zeros) if you're using LTFTs to tweak the VE.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbaxter_ss
For wideband, copy the entire table. :D :D :D :D
SinisterSS, you must have a pretty serious engine if you are able to turn it to 7600, let alone 8000.
There's nothing to see here, move along. :wink:
Lets just call it a very serious valve train, and balls of steel to keep the foot down that long :lol:
To answer Tordne's question.
It’s been a while since I set my laptop up for autotune so Paul or Ross please feel free to edit my mistakes.
Firstly you need to set you pids, If you go into Calculated pids you need to set the Base Efficiency Numerator 1, for me I use an Autronic wide band so mine are set to (Base Efficiency Numerator 1 Autronic) If you are using a LM-1 or PLX Etc, then set the Base Efficiency Numerator 1 in relation to your W/B Afr. If you have been using the W/B to tune in the past then your Wide Band AFR 1 Autronic and Commanded Air Fuel Ratio (as mine is) will have already been set, if not you will need to set those pids. Depending on the witch pin you are connecting you External Voltage to, you will need to set the External analog Voltage 1 or 2 in you External PID selection.
The next step is to open up a blank map (F11) and select an unused map page (like ‘C’ for me was blank). Now enter the map properties (ctrl+enter).
In the Data section in Parameter: scroll down to (0) Base Efficiency Numerator 1- (factor) and select it.
Now go to column and scroll down to (0) Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure (KPA) in the column section. Now open up the EV table in your tuning tool and hi-light the 400 rpm row (just click on 400) now right click it and copy with labels, go back to the map properties and click Paste Labels The Column labels should show 15-105.
Now enter the Row section and scroll down to (0) Engine RPM (RPM) and select it in the Row: section. As we did previously go back to the VE tables and click on the 15Kpa to hi-light all the 15Kpa variable down the RPM scale, now right click and Copy with Labels and go back to the map properties in the scan tool and click Paste Labels. Row labels should show 400-8000 rpm. Now save these properties in the ‘save as’ and call it what ever you like, (Autotune) is what I have saved mine to.
Now with the W/B AFR meter connected to your FlashScan select (in the map page) the Show Average Cell values (ctrl+-) or click on the X with the line above it next to the “N’, you should be in the map page titled BEN_AUT1 (Average), It will show differently with what ever W/B AFR you are using,
Now go back to your tuning tool and select Fuel_trim_Closed Loop Temp Enable. Set these values to 140 degC to stop the engine from going into closed loop. As Ross has stated in previous posts you need to set all the parameters for SD mode. Once you have done that Flash that computer and start recording in the map page, The idea is to highlight every cell without rapid accelerator movement, when you have finished logging press stop while there is some load on the engine so you don’t disrupt the correction factor.
Hi-light the page and click Copy With Labels under edit and go to the VE tables and Paste as Factor with Labels. Under edit.
You should be on your way with AutoTune.
Don’t forget to place the system back into closed loop when you flash the final tune.
I hope this helps.
Cheers, Scotty, ChipControl.
Thanks very much Scoota. That is an excellent write up on what is required.
I have kind of been doing this in an Excel spreadsheet (thanks to Steve Bryant), as has everyone else... The new feature in the Scan tool to apply a filter I expect will help greatly.
I will be off to the dyno tomorrow to see if I can hit all the cells and finally put the VE table to bed, until the next modification of course.
Thanks again.
Sorry Trordne,
When you go into the VE table you need to hi-light them as well and then paste as factor with labels. It's totally up to you whether you smooth out the cells. I’ve achieved the results where Commanded AFR and actual AFR are identical after smoothing although its not really nessesary.
Cheers, Scotty,
Scoota,
Did you re-enable the DFCO options also? When you applied the smoothing, did you apply it with a 'weight' of 100?
Did you, or is it best to, run through this process a number of times (i.e. 2-3 times), or is once enough?
Cheers.
Always re-enable DFCO, Why suck more fuel than you need to. As a rule, I set the smoothing weight to about '10' and smooth it gradually, over smoothing can send you chasing you tail over Air fuel Ratios. Look it doesn’t hurt to go over the VE’s twice just for some fine tuning, ‘I do’. Also the Idea is to not get the air intake temperatures too hot, you will find yourself only doing a couple rows of variables at a time, you don’t want to have too much heat soak in the engine and air temp or you will definitely be chasing that tail, just remember to start logging each row where you ended, say copy and past 2-3 rows at a time, once you’ve done all the rows then smooth them somewhat. Then flash it in and double check it. If you find the A/F to be spot-on then there really is no nead to chew-up Dyno time,
Good Luck, Hop this helps.
Cheers, Scotty.
HAHAHA!!! Dont get your intake to hot, guess us folks with magnachargers will be always chasing our tails.
I would like to know this also.Quote:
Originally Posted by VortechC5
Thanks,
Bill
:D
AutoTune will only work in SD mode (mafless).
As Ross has stated at the start of the this topic, The best place for the Maf is in the bin. :wink:
Shouldn't this thread be a "sticky"?
Has anyone successfully run MAFLESS (SD) with a fly-by-wire throttle ??
Cheers,
joel
Agree and yes. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bink
Thank you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SinisterSS
Sticky??? Blacky, GMPX?
maybe I missed it somewhere, but is this remotely possible without a WB, can i work off the narrows or not?
No, you must have a wideband.
Thanks for the Sticky! :D
Cheers,
joel
I had to go with the competition to tune my 98 a few months back due to no support yet from eflive :( was a bummer, but gotta do what ya gotta do.
I do still have my trusty efilive cable sitting in my laptop bag.
can I work this auto ve and maf magic with just efilive V7 and then export results to hand enter into my "other" tuning product????
There are a couple of key things that are needed to do the Auto Tune, from my perspective.
1) You need to be MAFless - running in Speed Density mode
2) You need to have a Wide Band O2 sensor - basically so that you can compare commanded vs. actual AFR's
3) I'm sure this is dumbed down, but basically what the Auto Tune process is doing is looking at the commanded vs. actual AFR's and calculating the difference (factor) between the two. So that, for example, in cell 4000RPM x 55kPa your factor could be 1.10, which would mean that you are over fuelling by 10% at that specific point.
In EFILive there is a MAP that calculates all these factors for you, and allows you to paste back into the tuning tool using these factors to correct your VE table. Prior to this being available within the EFILive product it was being done in Excel Spreadsheets, so ultimately you still have that option available irrespective of the tuning tool you use.
All you would need to be able to do is build two tables, one for commanded AFR's and one for actual. Then compare the two to see how far out your actual AFR's are.
Hope that makes some sense, or if I am wrong, please flame me...
Hopefully you will have your 98 support soon anyway... Paul and Ross are working hard on this as we speak!
Cheers,