We'll definitely let you all know when this hit the public in what we anticipate to be a week or two. All the glue that binds this is very solid :)
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We'll definitely let you all know when this hit the public in what we anticipate to be a week or two. All the glue that binds this is very solid :)
Derrick, we will post here in the forum, plus there will be something posted in the news section on the website -
http://www.efilive.com/news.aspx
Cheers,
Ross
Timing,timing timing!!! How do we utilize the RTACS to dial in the timing!:nixweiss:
The power is in the timing!!!!!!
Howard
So you do have to buy RTT for this to work though, correct? Unfortunately it doesnt apply to me so I dont have to worry...
Chad: Great promotions. Thanks for the great package and pricing! Now I have to wait from the mailman to come back to workQuote:
Originally Posted by Black02SS
This will be huge - real time automated optimization of timing and fuel. With the right PID's you should even be able to use the road dyno.
this is incredible just frigin incredible wooooooowww... just placed an order for the road runner hope there still in stock and not back ordered already sheesh...
im thinking out laud here can this be done without road runner like auto scan/tune then turn car off and upload tune ????
Thanks!! Gald to see they are working out for people. I have had some nice feedback on the packages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalky
:cheers:
well, only when people in this country learn what inertia dyno is and what it really measures. dynojets and mustangs are precise enough to measure an earthquake, not single misfires and changes in power made by 1* spark adjustments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extinct
When I was dialing in spark the other week, the numbers were going all over, its kind of like trying to read a sheet of newspaper in a hurricane. You can get close, but probably only at a push within 1 deg accuracy, certainly not .1 etc.
Is somebody working with one or multiple Dyno manufacturers to provide some sort of standard 0-5V output that can be calibrated (0V = 0 TQ and 5V = 1000 TQ)? If so, that would be great. Otherwise, how is the TQ value from the Dyno going to be input into EFILive? I don't see a PID solving this problem unless your plan is to rely on something like Power at the Wheels (calculated), Delivered Torque, or Delivered Engine Torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline Motorsports
I would want to know much more about these parameters before basing my spark table off of them (if something like that is the idea):
- how they are determined/calculated
- how modifications affect them
- whether or not they match up to actual dyno output either in actual value (not in my experience) or in general trends (somewhat)
- whether or not they actually peak where cylinder pressure actually peaks
- how sensitive the parameters are vs how sensitive the true torque curve is (there have been some interesting studies done on MBT, TQ curves, etc over the past couple of years; I spent a week at MIT last summer at an IC Engine course)
- etc.
Howard is right though. A/F is not much of challenge nor are its results nearly as rewarding (with regard to power) as timing.
I think they will able to transmit torque/power in digital form thru the serial port on the V2.
Note I said "road" dyno - as in the asphalt !Quote:
Originally Posted by redhardsupra
Not saying it can't be done. Just wondering how. If it is going to come from the dyno, anybody know which ones we're talking about? I visited just about all of the dyno manufacturers at PRI, and I have used several different dynos both chasis and engine. I can't recall any that have the TQ value as an A/D output available in real time. I am going to check with Superflow tomorrow. They have one of the best software packages (IMO). Their software allows users to build 'custom' tests that can be applied/run. I have never tried (or looked) to see if it could provide TQ as an output. That would be cool. It would be fairly easy to write a couple scripts that would help one run through the spark tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
If the dyno can "print" TQ/HP as "text" on it's serial output, Paul can program the V2 to parse it's serial input stream.
Some support serial output now... apparently.
Ive asked which ones too. Ill ask my local dyno bod.
Serial output (or CAN) is how it will be captured.
The serial port on V2 was put there just for this purpose (and the old OBD-I comms).
Just need everyone to play ball with us now :)
Cheers,
Ross
Do any of them of them output the value real time through a serial port currently? I realize we have the ability to print the dyno data, but that is after the fact (i.e. after the data has been captured). Would be nice, or I hope they do decide to play ball. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPX
If I understand this correctly, this will basically make AutoVE obsolete...But we will need to buy RoadRunner and an EFILive License, correct?
Lonnie
I would not call AutoVE "obsolete" since the process now promisses to be really "Automated" with the new realtime feedback loop. In order to take advantage of this cool new feature you will need a Licesened RR. Think of this as the difference btw driving a stick and an automatic. In this case you still get the awesome performance of EFI Live only now it can "Shift" for you.
PLAY BALL! :notacrook:Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPX
Ross, can you give a guestimate on when you will throw the first pitch??
Howard
First ball thrown - it was a strike :muahaha:
Can't wait to have a play with this with Delco while he's visiting me next week.
WOW!
I just found this thread/announcement. Seems like I walked through a time warp into the future.
Congrats to ALL!!
Cheers,
joel
oh, and Tordne......I'm glad you put the Def of "Tordne" in your avatar. I would bet the cumulative time/energy spent, by all on this site/board, in trying to understand......err...decipher "Tordne" is fairly high. :mrgreen:
LOL.. Yeah I figured as much :).. It was all I could think of when I had to think of a handle on the forums :bash:Quote:
Originally Posted by bink
Will this work with V1 or will I have to buy V2 as well?
Lonnie
This will work with either FlashScan V1 or V2, as ether tool is able to supply the required scan data stream. The key ingredient is that the RoadRunner Realtime PCM is required.
v1 is fine dude. Its all in the software. RR only supports LS1 PCM's at present anyway. Craig wasnt too keen on LS2 stuff a while back.
I guess he might change his mind eventually. But there is way more variance with the E40 / E38 / E67 all coming out over a short time, whereas LS1 PCM ran 99-05 pretty much.
Could this be used without a RoadRunner to simply allow you to update your VE table without the extra copy/paste step and then manually flash back in?
The process will physically work, but it won't really work without the RoadRunner. Here's the simple reason....
What happens with RTACS is that the Scan data comes in (as it normally does) and the Tune Tool now looks at the BEN value (using a simple example). Lets say the BE value is something simple like 1.10. Depending on if your are using 'Fine' or 'Course' control it will update the VE Table with 2% or 10% respectively of the seen scan data. It does this so that it obviously doesn't over shoot etc.
This process is repeated over and over and over. The problem with not having the RoadRunner is simple. Because there is no real time update to the PCM it is never actually changing the value. So again using or simple example. If you had a constant BEN of 1.10 and help the cell on a dyno say, the value in the VE would simple keep being lowered as it is effectively seeing no improvement to the tune. Whereas with the RoadRunner the BEN factor should start getting closer to 1.00.
God, I hope that is readable and makes sense?
Very clear. Any news to report on progress twds release?
It looking very good. We are working through one issue currently. Paul has changed some code and that is expected to be released to the closed Beta group in the next few days.
Once we are satisfied that this issue is resolved it should be good for public release. That is obviously solely up to Paul/Ross ;)
Along the same lines, is anybody using pressure sensors in their tuning? I get all hot and bothered thinking about the incorporation of that kind of information in a closed control loop. (I'm an adaptive systems guy in real life.) I know that's a bit spendy (say maybe an order of magnitude beyond a RR setup), but I'm curious how many here might already be using that kind of technology. The folks I've talked too aren't currently involved in any closed loop tuning, but they didn't seem uninterested. I'm always on the lookout for measuring instruments that could be alternatives (or even just augmentations) to dynos. Gas analyzers would be another example.Quote:
Originally Posted by superls1
Seems that would be a great method for optimizing a modified system for an emissions test!Quote:
Originally Posted by ToplessTexan
When is this coming??? I'm getting a little anxious. :Eyecrazy:
Right now, cylinder pressure analysis equipment is generally expensive. These guys have an affordable dyno setup and a reasonably priced in car setup. Can't wait to get mine. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ToplessTexan
The next best thing and possibly more likely to occur is ion sensing technology. I had the good fortune to test/play with an ion sensing ignition system last summer. Interesting technology. Maybe you won't even need a dyno to determine peak pressure. :) I believe the M5 uses some type of ion sensing for spark management.
After seeing this announcement, I did call some of the dyno manufacturers. SuperFlow will provide you access to their software through an API. You can set it up to provide real-time torque as an output. Still not for sure about getting the data into EFILive, but at least there is some potential.
Hi John - Welcome to the forum! Thanks for posting that information - should be helpfull for more than a few of us ;)
John, welcome to the forum. Interesting info... :cheers:
I would love to know more John about both of these systems. It looks like the way of the future along with the EFILve Roadrunner RTACS system
That ion sensing article with the BMW M5 was pretty interesting, I just finished reading it. Sounds like the future of igition systems, the standard spark plug has to advance (well it has already, but more so like the advances in engine management aka PCM/ECM/TCM and EFILive) sooner or later like the rest of engines.