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What are the correct numbers to put in the sae_generic file?
i searched and im finding different results
Is it 0v-5v and 10-18afr or 7.35-18afr? or something different and is the calculation still -5}*3.3418 )+7.35 ?
thanks<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
The latest 7.3.1 version has should have the correct values.Quote:
Originally Posted by WicketMike
That is what I use.
Bill
:cheers:
so is that 0-5v and 10-20afr ? and is the math *3)+7.35?
thanks
im asking becuase its not matching what my guage is saying
Here is what is in my file. *3 +7.35.Quote:
Originally Posted by WicketMike
# Innovate LC-1 WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-932
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-933
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
*CLC-00-934
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({EXT.AD2}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-935
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
thank you!
When you hook up the LC-1 to the flashscan and to a guage.
There is 2 analog outs, so i can get one of those to the gauge and the other to the flashscan, but what about the white and green wires? Those are the grounds for analog out.
Does both white and green grounds need to go to both the gauge and flashscan? or one of each? Do i split the white and green so they both goto each?
thanks
Here's pictures of my LC-1...
The 4 way connector: heater power, heater ground, analog output 1 (NBO2 High), analog ground (NBO2 Low).
The 3 way connector: analog output 2, calibration, system ground.
The 6 way connector: serial in, serial out.
Joe where did you get those connectors? I would love to have some there are a few things I'l like to rewire. I got some from summit but they are huge.
Hey Joe thats very nice, mine is a rats nest, with bits of household lighting cable, block connectors, telephone wire all wrapped around the shifter under the console. I hung my led and calibration button out the side of the console for a reset every week or so.
I think Ill go hunting for some nice connectors like that..
John Spina @ CASPERS Electronics, Mundelien, IL.Quote:
Originally Posted by ace68
http://www.casperselectronics.com
HTH,:cheers:
www.ledfoote.com
www.waytekwire.com
I got mine in a complete kit (includes pick for removing the pins when I messed up):
http://www.ledfoote.com/osc/product_...products_id=76
I also got the cheap crimping tool (required, works infinitely better than pliers):
http://www.ledfoote.com/osc/product_...products_id=77
If you need the GM 4-pin O2 sensor 'Metripak' plug, they're not shown on the Ledfoote site, and they're not included in the above kit; but if you email him, he does carry these for a good price (show him a diagram, see attached; he uses these in his O2 extension cables).
Waytekwire has the same things, but more in semi-bulk and not in kits (you have to get seals, pins, connector, hold down clip):
http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/218_029.PDF
they're good too, I like their 18 ga GXL automotive thin wall wire:
http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/218_004.PDF
they also have currugated split wire-loom tubing (I use the slit Nylon "black with grey stripe" 300F/149C):
http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/218_102.PDF
If you want to know how to use the Metripack/Weatherpak cheap crimp tool, let me know.
Edit: see post #53 below.
Oh, I didn't realise Caspar's carried the same stuff like Ledfoote.
It's good to have at least 2 sources.
The LC-1 wires are thin, so I put 1-2" of heatshrink tubing on their ends so that the Metripak seals would make a good seal with the wire;
If you put more heatshrink tubing (for strength), then you can't see what colour the wires are, so be sure to label them.
To crimp on the Metripak pins do this (do all wires at each step):
1. Slide seals on wire ends.
2. Strip 1/4" off wire ends (as you pull insulation off, give it a twist to twist wire);
use an electrical stripper tool with the holes, position over wire, rotate a few times and carefully pull away from wire;
LC-1 wires avery thin, so need to use a knife and care not to damage wire.
3. Position seal to be level with end of insulation on stripped wire.
4. Hold crimp tool in right hand so that jaw with 'E' label is upper most;
hold pin in left hand with crimp flaps facing up and pin pointing to right;
position pin into 'E' slot with crimp flaps facing up into 'E' slot, and crimp flaps positioned entirely within width of jaw;
slide wire into crimp flap area, be sure wire barely protrudes past crimp area;
squeeze crimp tool, and then squeeze hard;
remove crimp tool, tug on pin to make sure it's crimped;
you should be able to see the end of the wire barely reach past the end of the crimp area.
5. With fingers, bend seal tabs closer together over seal, centered in seal tab area.
6. Turn crimp tool over so jaw with 'A' label is upper most;
positon 'A' slot over seal tabs (with seal in between) and squeeze;
remove crimp tool and tug again to be sure;
seal should be crimped in middle of seal tab area.
Now, after all wires have pins/seals crimped on their ends (see attached pic):
a. Locate each wire and locate pin labels on connector, align wire/pins with cavities in connector, and push each wire/pin into connector until it clicks.
b. After all wire/pins are in connector, place wire locator clip over wires and push onto end of connector; this keeps the seals in.
c. Test fit by plugging into it's mating connector (if you made it already); don't force it, wiggle it, it will go.
d. When unplugging, grasp connectors, and with thumb or finger lightly push locking tab away from connector while sliding connectors apart;
do not pull on wires when doing this.
Thanks man, both of you. I will be needing those connectors I want to clean up the LC-1 and some other things. I have the pliers but the not the right size connectors.The connectors I have from Summit were just to large to use for the LC-1.
has anybody hooked up a LC-1 to a gauge and at the sametime to EFILive?
Im guessing you put one of the analog outs to the gauge and and the other one to the EFILive, but what about the ground, there is only one. Do i split it so it then can goto both?
thanks
I just installed dual lc1's on the bird. Just need to wire in the NB simulations.
Two LC-1's... I like that, it gives info about both banks...:rockon:
Does this mean that your BEN pid will be an average of the two...?
yessir. think i may have a minor exhaust leak. left bank runs a little leaner than right.
More pictures...
In the first picture (passenger compartment footwell), these cables have matching 3-way/6-way connectors tucked up under dash (behind underdash cover); cables on other side of connectors go thru firewall, past PCM into engine bay, past exhaust manifold (fourth picture), down to AC compressor, to K-member (second picture), to 3-way/6-way sockets which LC-1 plugs into (last picture);
LC-1 sits on K-member without touching trans cooler lines (second picture).
WBO2 sensor cable comes out front of LC-1, turns 180 deg, goes back past K-member to bung in front of cat (third picture).
LC-1 (last picture) connects to NBO2 socket (located near bung in front of cat) and to 3-way/6-way sockets.
I had my friend take these pictures at work, and we had no means to get underneath car.
Joe thanks for the links I ordered :<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right width=30>1 x</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top>Metripack/GT Heavy Duty Removal Tool</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right></TD></TR><TR><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right width=30>1 x</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top>Weatherpack Removal Tool</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right></TD></TR><TR><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right width=30>1 x</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top>Metripack Connecter Kit/ Free Multimeter</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right></TD></TR><TR><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right width=30>1 x</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top>Sealed Relay Kit</TD><TD class=main vAlign=top align=right></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I had the larger set allready, do you know what would be great? If there was some list out there that had all of the part numbers and quantaties needed to make a complete harness for us restomodifiers out there. You know the guy that wants to make there own harness to fit there particular need and custom cut to length. that would be sweet is there a way to get those numbers? will it be listed on a parts manual the parts depot at the dealer would have?
Ace,
Can you please post a link to the sealed relays, I'm interested in these also...
I agree, being able to have the part numbers handy is very useful for making our own harnesses or repairing existing ones.
I saw those GM part numbers in the Helm manuals, in the section showing the connector end views;
I heard Helm is having a 50% sale on paper manuals older than 2003;
They also sell the CD/DVD which has all previous years, it's expensive, but is worthwhile if you have multiple GM vehicles;
Helm publishes the "factory" GM manuals, the dealers use these.
See www.helminc.com
Regards
Joe
:cheers:
Web site still shows $135 for the 2001 manuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Bill
:cheers:
here you go Joe
http://www.ledfoote.com/osc/index.ph...6ca91535656824
Oh... I was mistaken then... :nixweiss: Happens to me all the time... :muahaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS
Thanks. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by ace68
Some people have been asking me for more info....
My connectors are wired as follows:
4-way connector:
A = NBO2 Signal Low = LC-1 green
B = NBO2 Signal High = LC-1 yellow
C = Heater Ground = LC-1 blue
D = Heater Power = LC-1 red
6-way connector:
This has both sets of 3 wires from the LC-1 Serial IN and Serial OUT cables;
the other end that this mates to has the Serial IN and Serial OUT sockets.
If you have FlashScan V2, you should be using the serial comms capability, so you do not need this:
3-way connector:
A = Wideband signal = LC-1 brown --> goes to: FlashScan pin C or E
B = System Ground = LC-1 white --> goes to: FlashScan pin D and pushbutton/LED ground/cathode
C = Calibration = LC-1 black --> goes to: pushbutton/LED positive/anode
Note:
System ground (white) is being used as the analog ground for the wideband signal,
and as the ground for the calibration pushbutton/LED.
If using the LC-1 to simulate the NBO2 sensor, my opinion is that the analog ground (green) and system ground (white) should be isolated from any other grounds (i.e. connected directly as above, and not to a common ground); this avoids ground loops (current flowing between unequal potential grounds).
Has anyone got a picture of the plucg/socket for the OEM O2 sensor connection?
like the one Joecar posted (post 67) or an actual photograph?
The actual plug/socket used on an '04 Monaro CV8. I have been advised that it is a flat 4-pin type as oppose to to a square 4-pin & I am trying to source these in the UK. Chances between slim & none methinks. So I need to order something from either Oz or the US & I want to make sure I get the right part.
Which side are you needing (O2 or PCM)? If it's the O2 side, you could possibly track down someone (internet classifieds, ebay, etc...) with with some old bad O2's, have'm shipped the cut the sensors off. If it's the PCM side, you might check with a dealership (local or otherwise). I've been able to replace all my PCM side connectors, when I break one, via local GM dealers.
It's the O2 side. Someone from the Piston heads forum has posted this link:Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
http://www.speedscenewiring.com/gmconnectors.htm
The one I want is the counterpart for nº 11 (heated O2 sensor). I have found a site in the US that sells a connector kit but I nned to make sure that the connectors are compatible:
http://www.ledfoote.com/osc/product_...a0f2e89f2dad27
There seem to be sqaure & round plastic mouldings. As I can't get to the O2 conenction on my car, I can't confirm the exact type, so any help would be appreciated.
The next step will be to email my cousin in OZ & ask him to look at an O2 sensor for a Monaro. Vauxhall in the UK are next to useless.
BTW, for you boys in OZ, looking good for the Ashes :frown:
I had to update this somewhat, so I deleted my original from page one.
Ok, here's how I did it so everyone can have a common point of knowledge....
I started out wanting to do this by replacing the stock B1S1 narrow band O2 without having the PCM freak out on me. The answer came to me while working on a friend's car. His O2 was acting up and he decided to replace it. So, we took his old O2 and chopped the connector and wires off of the end of the sensor. This provided us with a connection to a 12v source, a heater ground, and the analog 1 signal wire to feed the PCM. You'll need quite a bit of spare wire to get back into the car (about 25ft to make three 6~7 foot extensions). I chose to use a slightly thicker guage wire because I didn't want to loose voltage from one end to the other. If you choose to do it this way AND you have the new 7-wire LC-1, here's what you need to do.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...1_120_full.jpg
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>1. Make sure you're working on a cool car to avoid serious burns. Catalytic converters and transmissions especially hold heat for some time after you turn the car off. Remove your stock NBO2 from your car.<o:p></o:p>
2. Connect three 6~7 foot strands of wire to the spare O2 connector (B, C, and D). If you don't have a spare, you can buy an O2 extension and chop the male end off.
3. On the end of the connector (from step 2), the wires are labeled A, B, C, and D. If yours isn't labeled or its worn down, check the one you removed in step 1. Wire "A" (TAN) needs to be grounded somewhere. Look for a clean connection on a nearby exhaust shield or chassis bolt. Wire "B" (PURPLE) is connected to the analog 1 output. Wire "D" (BROWN) is your switched 12v source. Wire "C" (BLACK) is your heater ground. Make the appropriate connections to the LC-1.
4. Connect the analog 2 output to either the C or E location on the pin-out. **Make sure you take note which one you connect it to so you can log it later on.**
5. Connect the system ground and the analog ground to the D (middle) location on Flashscan's 3-wire pin-out.
6. Plug the spare connector into the female end under the car.
7. **First time use** With the WBO2 still disconnected from the LC-1 interface, turn the ignition to run (do not start motor) for 10~15 seconds and then shut it off.
9. Connect the wide band sensor to the interface. Make sure the sensor is exposed to air (not in exhaust). Turn the ignition to run again, this time for 2 minutes and then turn it off.
10. Install the wide band into the stock location of the exhaust.
11. Connect the DB9/stereo cable to your laptop and the serial out connection from the LC-1. Connect the terminator plug to the serial in connection from the LC-1.
12. Open the LC-1 programming software. Select the analog 2 tab at the top. Select "use air-fuel-ratio." Type 0.5v=10AFR and 4.5v=18AFR in the boxes provided. Click program.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Congrats. You're now ready to log. Choose the Tech Edge PID in the scan tool and go have fun! :cheers:
**Edit** I wasn't able to figure out what to do to get the simulated NB signal to "switch" before I sold my LC1. When hooked to the car in closed loop, it would show .440~.460mv consistently. Unfortunately, this is not a true simulation of our sensors. I've updated my write-up (02/13/07) to show the last known way that should work for the NBO2 simulation. However, I am unable to test this without my LC1. Until someone figures out how to fix this for sure, THE ABOVE SETUP WILL ONLY WORK IN OPEN LOOP OPERATION. If someone figures out how to fix this, please let me know so that I can update this walk-thru. Also, it is no longer necessary to change the LC1 output and select the Tech Edge .pid. The factory output and default EFI Live formulas should work. Thanks!
I have wired mine similar to your method except I have made a conenction between 'A' on the OEM car loom plug (step 3 above) & the GREEN wire on the LC-1.
I can't get the NB02 to switch either.
I have done the same as NAH... LC-1 green goes to NBO2 pin A.
When I run CL, I get switching just fine, but I had to play with the LC-1's NBO output step/curve.
Clarification
Shouldn't it be:Quote:
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Wire "D" (BROWN) is your switched 12v source.
Wire "C" (BLACK) is your heater ground.
by the drawing shown?
Good eyes. Fixed. Thanks. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by voda1
I misread this line:
5. Connect the system ground and the analog ground to the D location on the pin-out.
Changing it to:
5. Connect the system ground and the analog ground to the D location on the FlashScan pin-out.
would make it clearer.
Ground Confusion
From the EFI LC-1 Installation pdf. Page 4
#2 Signal Ground:
Connect a wire from the LC-1 Green(analog grd) and White(system grd) wire's ground connection to the D location of the EFILive External connector. D is in the middle of the 3-wire connector.
On page 5
Picture 7
*The black wire is connected to the same Signal ground location as the LC-1(green-analog, white-system wire) and is connected to the FlashScan Pin D "Common Analog Ground".
*Does that not imply a ground lug with blk, grn, wht wires attached?
From the Innovate documention under Mounting and Wiring the LC-1
5. The BLUE(heater grd) and WHITE(system grd) wires should all be grounded to the same ground source and although these grounds are of the same source, the BLUE wire should be wired separate from the WHITE wire to avoid analog ground noise.
**6. Note: The LC-1's heater ground(BLUE) and system ground(WHITE) wires should be grounded at the analog input's ground
**Does that mean the ground lug now effectivly has all 3 grounds attached?
Also the above drawing shows a connection within the stock ox sensor hi to low and then to [ground and term A].
It looks like there is a difference between using the factory ox harness for power with NB2 capable or not using factory harness. I want to use the factory harness and NB2.
Is/should there a ground lug with white wire(sys) and wire from the FlashScan D term?
Should the blue wire(htr) goto ox sensor harness C term or ground lug?
Should the green wire(analog) goto ox sensor harness A term?
I can update that other line too. I assumed by saying 'pinout' people would understand that I was talking about Flashscan's 3-wire connector.
As for the grounds, ONLY THE SYSTEM AND ANALOG GROUNDS SHOULD BE CONNECTED TO FLASHSCAN. I believe it clearly states in Innovate's instructions that you shouldn't connect the heater ground to the same place as the others. I'll have to double check. The heater ground should be connected to a chasis ground (or via the NBO2 connection if using as a power source).
Quick and dirty sketch attached. Since C term in Ox harness runs back to Splice Pack #122 on bottom of the CarDomain drawing.
The label Grd is just a connection point.
Please explain this line from EFI docs -
On page 5
Picture 7
The black wire(not from the LC1) is connected to the same Signal ground location as the LC-1(green-analog, white-system wire) and is connected to the FlashScan Pin D "Common Analog Ground".
What is the 'same Signal ground location'?
Don't connect LC1-black to any ground; this is not a ground wire (see note 2 below).
It's best to not connect LC1-white or LC1-green to common ground...
connect either of them to the "return" of the measuring device (FlashScan-D or NBO2-A).
Don't connect FlashScan-D to common ground; connect it to LC1-white or LC1-green.
If you want NBO2 simulation, connect either LC1-yellow or LC1-brown to NBO2-B.
Don't connect NBO2-A to ground, even if it appears to already be "grounded".
Summary:
LC1-red -> NBO2-D
LC1-blu -> NBO2-C
LC1-yel -> NBO2-B
LC1-grn -> NBO2-A
LC1-brn -> FS-C or FC-E
LC1-wht -> FS-D and pushbutton/LED cathode(-)
LC1-blk -> pushbutton/LED anode(+)
Notes:
1. Note that LC1-white goes to 2 places.
2. Note that LC1-black drives the LED, and initiates calibration when shorted to ground (LC1-white).
3. Note that LC1-green and LC1-white can be interchanged and/or connected together,
and it's best to avoid connecting either of them to common ground.
4. If NBO2 heater power/ground is turned on/off by PCM, then you have to power the LC-1 by means other than NBO pins C, D... the reason for this is that the later PCM's manage NBO2 heater power via PWM.