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Connect up with a Mini-USB cable direct to it, forget that ribbon wire. You might want to ohm it out to be sure, but some of the goofy errors are due to the ribbon. USB is sorta fast for a non twisted pair, so the errors are probably pretty high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s10mods
i'm at work now, I will try it when I get home, I am hoping it is something to do with the serial cable, I need to get some of those Molex usb units.
I seen the cal, but I don't have the VDF to support it.
ok, I guess my RR must suck, I can flash in any V8 file with TC but I cannot flash in a v6 file with TC, I hooked directly to the usb port and still no luck, I even put the RR in to the 717 pcm with no luck, so I figured i'm just out of luck with the v6 setup. Since I was playing, I picked up a few RR headers and installed one in to a 1024K 2004 pcm, I tried to flash a 04 file in to it with EFILive and I get a "currently loaded tune file compatible with RR device, This RR device emulates teh LS1 512K PCM the current tune file cannot be loaded into this RR device." error, I guess my RR is a POS and has no ablities that you guys have, I guess I will have to save and buy another one for my 1024K use. and I guess I am just screwed for the v6 setup.
Ross, I tried to flash my RR with a 1024K truck file with efilive and I get a "currently loaded tune file is not compatible with RR device, This RR device emulates the LS1 512K PCM the current tune file cannot be loaded into this RR device."Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPX
Do I need to update my software to be able to flash in a different than 512K calibration or is it my RR that's not accepting the file? Thanks
Joe
Can someone with a 512K RR and efilive try to flash a 1024K file in to their RR? according GMPX in post 27 the RR should work with anything EFILive supports, I can flash my RR with TC but not EFILive, I have given up on the V6 support, but I would like 03+V8 support which should be possable.
IIRC there is only 1 RR, it supports 384k, 512k and 1024k. So files are the same.
Did you get the 12.14R flashed in yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s10mods
right, my RR says 1024 right on it, and I can flash it in TC but I get an error with efilive. "currently loaded tune file compatible with RR device, This RR device emulates teh LS1 512K PCM the current tune file cannot be loaded into this RR device."
I emailed craig about the 12.14 but I have not had a response yet and I sent it early this week.:bangin:
I am wondering... his site says nothing anywhere on whether or not there is more than one flavor of RR... I think they are ALL 1MB RR's. The reason I say that is the pinout is all compatible from the 28F400 and 28F800. (Black Box and N* (older) user 28F400's and LS1 (up to 2002) and all V6 up to 98-05 GTP use 28F800's. What do the 1MB PCM's use?
Edit: My 2003 PCM that I pulled the memory is a 28F800 also so that is why the RR is a "one size fits all", the 717's (2000-2001 V6) use a 28F800, but only put 512k on it. The 03-up LSx uses the 28F800, but puts a full 1MB on it. So I am guessing the 0411's and the like are same, put a 512k file on a 1MB part. Makes sense. so the question is, and it should (I have heard a rumor that it will) the Black Box PCM's from the OBS trucks, 98-00 will support the RR also, as they have a 28F400. But the housing makes it impossible to fit the RR, so a custom housing is needed.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...F800pinout.jpg
Craig's site says:
<imgsrc="product_thumb.php?img=images/rr_guts_kit.jpg&w=150&h=107"width="150" height="107" hspace="5" vspace="5" border="0"alt="Roadrunner-DIY: "Guts" Kit" title="Roadrunner-DIY:"Guts" Kit">
Click to enlarge
"This is JUST the Roadrunner emulator, installation header, weatherproof connector, internal standoffs, and USB cable. If you're dead-set on installing it in your own PCM, then this is what you want. Be sure you can handle desoldering a PSOP44 flash chip and soldering down a 44-pin installation header. You'll need to cut a 3/4" hole in the case of the PCM as well. Not for the faint of heart, but you can save some money over the plug-n-play-prepped PCMs. I will have tested your Roadrunner in a working PCM prior to shipment, but if you fail to install the device correctly or the PCM isn't correct or working properly, then you'll be stuck. It's possible to damage the Roadrunner as well as your PCM (fair warning). Don't be paranoid, but don't be a hero either. I'm not looking for tech support nightmares, just trying to save you guys some money."
Here is an article on the Flash-Based Factory PCMs
The flash chip is the difference between the 1mb and 516k.
The first RR`s had no flash chip in them and now they do.
It would be interesting to see if you can upload a 1mb file to a 516k PCM.
I`m not going to try it though.
On a RR you can... and not hurt anything. The beauty of the RR is endless!
Have you done this?
I have flashed in a 1024 file with TC and had no trouble, but when I try with EFILive I get an incompatable error, I think it might be how EFILive licenses the RR.
If you have the license for EFILive and RR, it flashes just like
the stock PCM; forever.
It is nice to know all RR`s are the same.
Moates has options for 516k and 1mb on his site but,
that must be for buying a new one with an OS already installed.
I think it must lock to 512 and 1024 differently I can't flash a 1024 fiile with efilive but I can with tuner cat
Does your RR have a connector input labeled green?
I`m no expert but, I assume that it is impossible to load
1mb worth of OS into a 516k space.
I am not calling BS on this, I am looking for clarity.
It would be nice to know if I can run a 1mb OS in my RR without issues.
I am apt to believe that EFILive sees a conflict with the hardware
and OS mismatch and that is why Flashscan won`t upload a 1mb OS,
something Tunercat has not been made to do.
Something does not make sense here-can you go into more detail?Quote:
Originally Posted by s10mods
The road runner is an emulator for the flash chip in the pcm, it does not know what it is atached to, I have it in a 512K pcm and I can flash a 512K file in to it with EFILive and TC, then I wanted to try and flash a 1024K file in to it to be able to put the RoadRunner emualtor in to a 1024K pcm and be able to swap it back and forth between the two and have 2 roadrunners (a 512K and a 1024K) insdead of buying another one and the license. on the roadrunner emulator, they all say 1024K even in the 512K pcm. I bought the header and installed it in to a 1024K pcm with the green and blue connector and I can still flash a 512K and 1024K file in the RR with TC, but when I try with EFILive I can only flash a 512K file and not a 1024K file, it has to be licensing for efilive.
I think I posted on one of the other threads, but the RR is a 28F800 emulator. All the 98-06 or so PCM's have a 1MB memory on them, but many only got 512k of code pushed to them, so there is a LOT of zero's in there, or they just started the write at the halfway point.
If you look at the PCM.Dat in TC2, you do see stuff in there and some ~may~ be the start location. Just like with the 2 timer and such where multiple programs were put on one chip. You had to tell it where to start. The bootloader is doing the same thing. It is telling the program to go look at a certain start location.
If I had an LS1 I would experiement with it, but I would be surprised if you put a 1MB program in a 0411 PCM if it DIDN'T work....
Anyone got a RR and wanna try? You won't hurt the RR, and if the PCM freaks, just reflash..... No worries.
Not yet, but I have run many different OS's in my 717 PCM, many that were not intended to be in that PCM and only one oddity showed up, VIN would't write and save, it would stay, but the moment car turned off, it was gone. Oh, and OLM was too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.prick
Well I know of someone else who tried to flash in a 1024 file in to a 512k RR and got the same error I got
So it must be the way efilive is licensed to the rr unit. I wonder if another license could be purchased for the other files? So have 2 licenses for the same RR.
I'll get ahold of Craig to clarify, but from my understanding there is no such thing as a 512kRR, they are all 1024k.
I will confirm. But if you are seeing issues, It sounds like EFILive is the problem.
Ross/Paul should know as well. The only differences I have ever heard of are the w/flash w/o flash versions. And of course the firmware. I would ensure you are on 12.14R.
Mine's in the car, but later today I will try to blow in a 1MB LS1 file in my RR that is in my 717 PCM.
Try this too: http://www.moates.net/documentation....entation_id=34
I sent Craig an email, hopefully he will respond.
But the point I bring is there is 2 PCM's, 512k and 1024k, both share the identical memory, 28F800. the RR knows not what PCM it is in. Which is why you flash RR with the car/truck OFF, it can't even know, it has no way to. I have never seen GM put a 512k part on a GM/Delco/Delphi PCM yet. They put 1MB parts on and programmed them with 512k code.
I with some tweaking to the pcm.dat, I bet that you can put a 28F800 in a black box PCM and make it work.
Do you have the latest pcm.dat from Tunercat? That is key. It is up to "HT", so if yours is out of date that might explain a lot. Same with EFILive, is it latest version? An update came through yesterday.
RoadRunner LS1 Realtime Emulation PCM
Why is there a choice between the to sizes?
And what about the article i linked to in post #50?
Its states that `03-`07 are interchangeable but nothing about `01-`02.
Please excuse my ignorance on electronic hardware, :throw:
but do all of the `01-`07 LS1 PCM`s have the same memory capacity
just different processor speeds?
It would be nice if Moates or Paul would chime in on this.
Because the PCM is different so they have to, the RR is the same, only 1 guts kit.... Same RR. Different PCM's. The I/O and probably processor is different.
Like I pointed out. Opening up a PCM, 99-up, the ones that are compat with a RR, ALL have the identical memory, a 28F800 Intel. RR emulates that.
There is no such thing as a 512k RR. Only a 1024k....
Yes I am in the industry so I have dug up on the specs on the 28F800, we are just writing to the half we want to of the 1MB part in with a 512k program. Look at the 2 timer with the OBD1 stuff, we have to write to a certain location in the memory so we can access it properly. So in the case of the 0411 PCM, it is EXPECTING to start at memory location 0x512k (just a ficticous #), as the boot loader, tells it too. So on a 1MB, you have a different boot loader, which is in the whole .cal/.tun file you have.
I am expecting the .cal/tun is broken up in 3 parts, Boot Loader (bottom loader or top, meaning where it resides in the memory, which is the first place the processor go goes to look. IIRC the 28F800 can be either, which is unusual) The the OS (which really could be the bootloader too not sure) and the cal tables.
So it would stack the 3 together, and the boot loader tells it where everything is.
I bet you could put a 1MB program in a RR in a 0411 PCM ("512k pcm") in the RR and it will try to run. The processor will probably crash depending on how far different it is. As it is going to be calling for A/D input/outputs that are likely not there. So it will panic and crash. But it will take it.
Currently we know you have to follow the Northstar. If you read my chip it will give me a chance to mess up that Northstar. :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DIH
Get working :angel_innocent:
The 512K PCM's use an intel AB28F400B memory chip, the 1 megs have an AMD AT28F800B, so to say the least they are not identical, at least not in the 12200411 and the 12589463 that I own.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DIH
I`m not trying to argue but my RR clearly is labeled 516k.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DIH
If it can hold a 1mb file, cool.
If you can upload a 1mb file, why do it if it will crash? :doh2:Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DIH
Being able to load a file is one thing, but not being able to use it is another.
My interest in this topic was the possibility of being able to to use the RR
for a GEN IV motor swap.
But I remembered that there was no LS1 based OS that is
compatible with a 58x reluctor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DIH
I am able to flash in a 1024K file with TC but not with EFILive as I have stated before, I am not able to flash in the 3800V6 file, but I know of 2 people who can and they are both running 12.14 firmware and I am running 12.13 so that must be my error for the V6 file, and it must be efilive on the not being able to put in a 1024K file.
The PCM itself may be labeled as a 512K, but the RR's are labeled as 1024K. I opened my 512K RR pcm and the RR emualtor is labeled 1024K, and I can flash it as such with TC.
Oh my....
The RR is capable of emulating up to 1024k. It doesn't care what PCM it is installed into personally, but it does provide some info to the software side so things can be done a bit more judiciously.
The first 2 digits of the serial number indicate the 'intended' or 'installed' usage. This is typically either 01 (for 512k) or 02 (for 1meg). This is almost entirely specified in order to facilitate correct OS matching etc with the target device from the software perspective.
EFI Live uses this part of the serial # to determine what types of binaries/tunes it should be allowed to upload. This typically will help to prevent confusion. As folks swap RRs across multiple PCMs, that goal won't necessarily be achieved.
I don't believe TC has a 'check' in place on the serial # to try and determine PCM type. The 'check' or the refusal to upload/sync from EFI's side can be worked around I believe, contact Paul or Ross for details on this if necessary.
The V6 is a different animal, mostly 512k but still not identified via 01 or 02. I think I have a placeholder in there like 04 = 'other'.
Keep in mind that uploading a file into a RR that is installed into a DIFFERENT type PCM than what the file is intended to be functional within has no hope of working.
Also, on the FW 12.13 -> 12.14, the only difference is a modification to smooth out the RTACS. With 12.13, it would occasionally hiccup a bit. No other changes.
Hope this helps,
Craig
Thanks for clarifying this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Moates
Looks like a little more thought goes into EFILive as opposed to the "other" tuning software that is out there. :lookaround:Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Moates
well I finally got my RR updated to 12.14 from this http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=9613 post number 10 thanks limited cv8r. but I still cant flash my rr with the v6 cal files, I e-mailed craig a few times with no response, If I knew a new rr would let me flash a v6 cal to it I would buy one in a heartbeat, I am driving my car now and it needs a little tuning and I cant even think of the old way.
Wish you were close by so we could look at it and see what is up. Mine has done V6 files great from day 1. Did V6 before anything else. I'm puzzled!
These are the serials from two of my RR's -0107051712445267,0206092319290250. One is a 512,one is a 1024. As you can see,like craig stated in an earlier post the first two digits determine how EFILive sees your RR. So what we need is for the check to be removed or able to be bypassed so that we can flash whatever we like into our RR's with EFILive. I guess this can only be done by Ross if he is willing to let EFILive users have some more fun with their software and RR's and hopefully make it a better product.
On a side note if Craig reads this,has there been any work done towards emulating the later model ECM's? e.g E40,E38 etc.
that would be great, I am using Tuner Cat to try and flash my v6 files in to my RR, but to be able to use EFILive with more than just the 01-02 would be nice too. I wish EFILive would come out with V6 support, that would be sweet.
what version of the RR program are you using? and what version are your vdf's? this is the only other thing I can think of it being, I am now running V12.14 firmware and I have tried to flash it on 3 different computers now with no luck. I can even flash in a 99 truck file, but not a 98, and nothing v6 can I flash in. I e-mailed craig a few times now with no response, I am considring buying another RR and just hope that maybe it's my RR and the new one will accept the file.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DIH
I have TC and my RR sitting right here. I'm going to try to flash in a 97 truck file I have. If you post or point me to a post where a V6 file is, I will try to flash it into the RR right now for you. If it works, maybe we can work out a trade. =) Save you $600.Quote:
Originally Posted by s10mods
S10mods=John, right? You have my old TC or your brother does.
Eric
Yea, you sold your old tc to my brother, I'm joe. I think there is a post in this thread that has my v6 file in it, I'm not at home now and am posting from my cell phone.
Has anyone installed the RR in a CAN based PCM yet?
Can it be done?
I will try to look around for that file carefully later tonight and report back. I'll find it somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by s10mods
If I can upload the V6 file into my RR, I'll pay for my end of shipping and send it to you and you send me yours. Just the guts kit so we keep the PCM serial the same I think and we'll just clarify it with Craig Moates that we are swapping RR's. I'll reinstall EFI Live if thats ok with Paul and Blacky so as to not eat a license. As long as nobody gets any feathers ruffled and my RR actually takes a V6 file, it looks like this will get you to where you want to be and you seem a lot further along than I am.
Besides, the only V6 I'd ever install it in would be a 2002 S10 (girlfriends truck) and she won't even let me plug into the OBD II port yet. She is serious with her vehicle (50k mile stock I think ZQ8 package? the lowered non extreme one). Both our trucks are blue. I think I found a keeper! =)
Eric