Anyone have a 4L80E program?

I thought you had been battling a transmission oil pan leak ... sounds like you are describing the engine oil pan. If its the engine oil pan, these must be aligned with the rear block "face" or machined surface - within a fairly tight tolerance - or they will leak and / or cause stress on the transmission input shaft. Its a challenging task with the drivetrain in the vehicle.

Some people will "eyeball" this, others use feeler gauges - I have done both, put prefer to use the proper alignment tools whenever possible.


Regards,
Taz

Oh, engine oil pan... yes, you need the alignment tool, what Taz said.

Oh no, the trans is golden aside from the shifting problem. I'm thinking that the oil pan is going to be a dealer fix depending on what they want for it. I've spent way too much time on it, and need to get on the tuning as well as the crap I've been putting by the wayside to get that engine in.

Oh no, the trans is golden aside from the shifting problem. I'm thinking that the engine oil pan is going to be a dealer fix depending on what they want for it. I've spent way too much time on it, and need to get on the tuning as well as the crap I've been putting by the wayside to get that engine in.

Speaking of time, as always I'd like to thank everyone for the time they've spent helping me work through these little problems. A lot of my frustration with the vehicle project is related to stress from other parts of my life. If it were just the vehicle, no problem.

Update - The oil leak is fixed (turned out to be a PCV system issue) so I'm about to rip the interior out so I can install the wideband the way I want it. Initially the wire will just run to a point where it will hang under the dash but eventually I'm going to convert the ashtray into a cable access point where I can plug the laptop into the wideband with a short cable. I'll also be able to plug a flashdrive into a new stereo later. But I digress. I'm hoping to be able to start on wideband tuning over the next week.

I managed to get the 2002 program loaded into the truck. You have to do a full flash to get it in, not the quickie flash you normally do when tuning. The first problem I had with it is the battery light keeps going on and off and it sets a P1638 code, generator F terminal circuit. I know at some point they went to a PCM-controllable alternator. Is this something I need to put on the truck now, or is this something I can disable? So far I've not found any manipulatable fields for this. Or, will it hurt anything if I just disable the MILs for this? I'm really hoping I can retain the 2002 program for that lean cruise feature.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far and I really appreciate how nobody seems to mind how I disappear for weeks at a time. It's about to get worse too, as the union side of my company is about to go on strike and I'm gonna be working massive overtime covering for them.

Hello Telco,

Yes, an OS change requires a Full flash (OS & CAL). Regarding the alternator, you have two choices. Either set P1638 to "Not Reported", or connected a wire from C2 pin 52 (which will be empty in your current wiring harness) to the alternator "F" terminal (which will probably be marked as "I" on your current alternator connector).


Regards,
Taz

Sweet thanks. If I were to connect the wire as mentioned, what effect would it have?

Also, found that under G1206 there is a field where you can turn Alt Term F on and off. I decided to turn it off to match the old program.

OK, got the battery light knocked out by shutting it off in the program. My truck's not wired for the F terminal connection, so no harm in not having it. I also figured out why I was unable to get the shifting to adjust correctly. I was thinking that fields D0701-3 were indicating how much was to be removed from the base shift pressure, and that a higher number would mean a softer shift. I'm embarassed, but I'd rather show embarassment and prevent others from having problems than keep quiet and let others stumble. So, I'm finally starting to make progress with this thing.

Unfortunately the union guys in my company are striking starting tonight, and we non-union guys are going to be working massive OT to cover until the strike's over. As I'm down to only the truck to drive, the wideband will be having to wait a bit before I can install it. Sucks, but I'm going to run a partial Corvette tune for the engine which the truck seems to like. Thanks for the help folks.

I'm getting this thing close on the transmission. I do have a question on fields D0701, D0702, and D0703. What would I see if the fields were set too low? I know too high is a slamming hard shift. I have the 3-4 shift perfect, and the 1-2 is almost there, but I can't seem to get the 2-3 to smooth out enough. It's halfway there now though, but it seems like D0702 is getting way lower than D0701 and D0703. Just wanting to make sure that too low of pressure won't cause slamming shifts too.

Hello Telco,

Shift time and shift pressure help keep the transmission from slipping. Shift times in the 0.150 to 0.300 second range are a "ballpark" of what generally works well in 1>2 and 2>3 shifts. Shift pressure I ramp up fairly quickly - to prevent slippage.

Slamming shifts may be caused by too much pressure, too soon - but are usually caused by insufficient TR (torque reduction). If you have the TR "zeroed out" it will probably shift far too firmly. Reducing shift pressures simply because you want TR set to "0" puts the transmission at risk, and removes a tuning variable from the table.

Try increasing TR to smooth out your 2>3 shift.


Regards,
Taz

I've got some in there now. I'll add some more in and we'll see what happens then. Thanks.

I added more pressure and more torque management, and adjusted the shift speeds per your recommendation. It made things quite a bit different. But, it did smooth the 2-3 shift out quite a bit. We'll see what a few more hits does with it, thanks.

I've done the above, and now have a rougher shift. Interesting note though, I also noticed that the truck seems stronger with the higher pressures which leads me to believe that lowering the pressure only to improve shift feel was also causing me to lose power in the trans due to slippage. So, pressure too high causes banging shifts, pressure too low causes loss of power transmission to the rear wheels making the engine feel weak. I'm going to try increasing the shift speed time a bit more and add a bit more torque management at the bottom.

What PIDS I would need to watch to tune this correctly?

Include at least these: GEAR, SHIFTLAST, TFMPRS, TRQENG, VSS, RPM, TFT, TCCMODE, TCCSLIP.

Yes, do not let the trans slip... set the shift pressures a little higher and the shift times as Taz said above, and then play with torque reduction to tune the shift feel... you want a firm shift with being jerky.

Make sure your MAF and VE tables are correct to ensure that the in-gear pressures are sufficient to prevent slipping.

Heh heh... I've got an Innovate LC1 in a box right now waiting for installation, but I'm also working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week and have only the truck to get around in. Right now I have just about enough time to tweak the program based on the drive to work and back, then slap the program in and try the next day. If I can ever get another vehicle or get some time off I can get it in and get do the autoVE thing. Until then I'm using a stock 4.8L table, best I can do at the moment. I'll set up a scan using those parameters and see what I can turn up. I've also picked up a factory manual for the truck so I've got access to what the pressure should read. Thanks.

Found why I wasn't getting anywhere adjusting for the 2-3 shift. Field D0706 had VERY high numbers where D0704 and D0708 didn't. I copied this field from another 4L80E program that didn't have such high numers (as high as 45) and now all of a sudden the 2-3 shift isn't killing me. Now it's giving me a hard shift suitable for the dragstrip rather than the hard jerk suitable for tearing the trans mount out.

I also fiddled with the shift speeds, by pulling up a Corvette program and using the Speedo Calculator, and used the Shift Point Corrector to match them to my setup.

Thanks to the folks here, I'm getting there.

Glad you found it :cheers: thanks for posting back.

I'll do more than that, once I work it out so it shifts properly I'll both post the program here and shoot it over to HoldenCrazy although I'll wait on him until I get the engine programming done as well. :good:

All righty folks, I'm to the point now that things are smooth, and I think I'm ready for fine tuning. I understand that the more pressure the better so long as I don't have so much that I'm breaking parts. Question is, is there a max amount of torque management I need to be using? How much is too much? I've been going off the assumption that 35 percent is the max I need to use.

You can use torque reduction to fine tune the shift feel... you can use more than 35% if you want.

What is the most torque management I'd want to use? 50%? 75%? Thanks.

You just have to try it.....You will know if you went too far, because the motor will misfire.....

I believe some LQ9 equipped Sierra Denali's had TR as high as 65% from the factory.

Slow67 is correct - too much TR may lead to a misfire / back fire condition.


Regards,
Taz

Good deal, thanks. I'll report back what happens.

RRrrrrrr.. seems like every time I get close it falls back out. I have the 1-2 shift perfect, and you can only tell the 3-4 shift by the change in engine tone and the RPM drop. The 2-3 shift is smooth first thing in the morning, but once it warms up I get a clunk in the shift. It only shifts smooth on a WOT shift when warm. What am I missing here? My current parameters are shift speeds are set to 0 on all gears. Temp compensation is in place on the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts, and the table is zeroed out on the 2-3. The shift speed and temp compensation were set to zero in an attempt to eliminate variables. Torque management does little to smooth the shifting out, have experimented with anywhere from 0 to 50 percent TQ. This leaves the 2-3 base pressure table to adjust. I've run the pressure anywhere from 0 to 90 trying to get this thing to smooth out. Is there a possibility that I have a valve body problem? As a reminder, I have a built 4L80E with the low gear set in it. I'd be inclined to blame the low gear set, except it does shift properly when cold and at WOT, and I'd think that a WOT shift would make the problem more prevalent if it was the gearset causing the problem. Any suggestions? If need be I can load my latest program up this evening.

Oh, and is there a possibility that I need to get the VE tables worked out before I can get this to work right? I'm taking the next week off and am thinking that I can get the wideband installed now.

Has your transmission been dual fed? Did your builder keep the 3rd accumulator? What did he drill the 3rd feel hole to?

You might have to log the transmission temp, then dial back the force motor vs. TFT amps. Then up the 1-2 and 3-4 to get them back inline.

I can't answer any of those questions. The directions were to build a 4L80E with a low gear set that would handle up to 500HP for a towing rig that would be driven by a woman. Needless to say the woman is not happy with me right now. I know that they drill holes larger on high performance rigs, are these holes in the valve body? If so I can probably get the builder to send me another valve body. I can't do much with transmissions, but changing a valve body I can do.

Weird. I gave 'er hell on the way into work this morning before it warmed up. This is not something I like to do, but... it shifted really well until it warmed up, then it went back to the hard shifting on the 2-3. It did still have the jerk shift while cold, but it wasn't nearly as bad. Right now my temp compensation table is zeroed out.

WOO WOO! Think I had a House moment, as it occurred to me that I was adjusting the entire table for the 2-3 shift, but the scan logs show that I'm not hitting the upper end of the torque table. And, it occurred to me that D0702 is not the entire pressure, but is additive to the base pressure field. This was scaring me a bit as I was originally and erroneously thinking that 0 in D0702 means 0 pounds. As soon as this clicked, I adjusted the table for the fields I'm using and dropped the high end way down, and yesterday's program ran tons smoother today. Instead of the jerking shift along the entire midrange, I had a larger smooth shift area, and a NEW hard snap shift like one would expect in an all-out racing effort. The jerk shift range was a lot smaller, and the jerkiness was not nearly as harsh. I'm hoping that today's program will have the issue resolved although I won't be a bit surprised if I don't have some fine tuning to do. Thanks for the patience folks, someitmes it takes me a little longer than it should.

Hi Telco :cheers: good job

Post a pic of your table.

Look at items 1c and 1a in this: 4L80E-Reference-Material - Common Hydraulic Functions

torque signal pressure adds to line pressure.

I'll do you one better. Here's the tune I'm going to load in for tomorrow's check. The one I ran today still shifted too hard, but the clunking shift was virtually nonexistent. I'm also happy with how the rest of the program is. The shifting and kickdown are all working beautifully.

I'm so glad this is finally starting to work out.

OK folks, I feel confident enough with this tune to post it up for anyone to use. Anyone that wants to run a 4L80E from FLT with the TCI 2.75 first gear and 1.57 second gear, this tune is almost perfect. Use the trans segment out of this and you should be close enough that you just have to fine tune to your own tastes. It works well in my 2000 Silverado, with a 2002 program. When I get the engine tuned, I'll be posting it here at EFI Live and will be submitting it to holdencrazy.com for their modified tune bank. What goes around, comes around. :grin::rockon: Course, I'll miss how the poorly tuned program would bark the tires on every shift (even the 3-4 shift at about 85MPH) but the tune that's in there is far easier on the truck. Who knows, when I get the BCM fixed so the tow-haul works again I might bump the tune up a bit for the tow/haul mode and rename it the fun button. :sly:

Thanks for all the help on this folks, I'll be back later on when I get around to getting the wide band installed. Unfortunately we're down to one vehicle right now, so I can't take the truck down to do the job the way I want to.


Anyone who used the program that used to reside here, don't. It was compensating for incorrect parts.

Hey guys, long time no post. I know how much it sucks when there's a problem and the resolution never gets found out, so...

After getting nowhere with my oil leak issue, I sent my engine back to the builder to find out what the deal was. He found some metal somehow got wedged into a valve, and some incorrect bolts installed in the main bearing caps. All this is supposed to be fixed now. I'm highly pissed about it but at least the builder worked on it again and found problems. I'm working on putting the engine back in now.

Now then, to the subject of the post. Since I was pulling the engine out anyway, I also sent the trans back to Finish Line Transmissions to have them look at the hard shifting problem. Chuck pulled it down, and apparently the 2-3 plate was drilled for a full-out race trans. The pressure reduction I had to do to get it to shift right also caused 3rd gear to wear. Chuck fixed the problems and sent it back.

As of now the trans is in the truck and I'm prepping the engine for reinstall. I'll post back when it's all in to report the results. I've already put a stock pressure program back in so I can start over on tuning the trans. My wife is still having medical issues so my time on this is limited.

OK folks, I have a final fix on this. I sent the trans back to FLT, where they found that they had inadvertently installed a set of drag racing plates into the trans, which was making it shift so hard. My attempts to correct the problem through software resulted in trans pressure being so low that it wore out some of the innards. They put the correct plates in, and replaced the defective parts, total cost to me was shipping there and back. I now have a stock program in, lightly modified to suit my tastes, and I now have the trans I wanted to begin with. Each shift feels perfect. No slop, no bang. Loving it. I'd have posted this up sooner, but I wanted to give it time to make sure, and get the slippage problem the TC caused that I installed on my own with no input from FLT.

There was a slight delay in figuring this out though. When I got the trans back I installed a Hughes torque converter that according to my research should have given me a better feel and a higher stall than the one I had in there. What I ended up with was slippage code P1870, and a very sluggish vehicle. After discussions with FLT, I swapped the torque converter back to the one FLT sent. The slippage code went away, the acceleration is back and it's running better than ever.

Anyone wants a good trans by a company that backs up their product, even after a year, FLT (Finish Line Transmissions) is your shop.

Cool :cheers: thanks for the update.