Frozen,
your 2001 TA has GM.DYNAIRTMP defined so remember to use it instead of CALC.DYNAIRTMP which is for your 1998 TA.
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Frozen,
your 2001 TA has GM.DYNAIRTMP defined so remember to use it instead of CALC.DYNAIRTMP which is for your 1998 TA.
Ok I still have BEN_lc11 which is w02-analog and W02BEN1 which is BEN from analog wideband 1. So I selected there appropriate supporting pid. No more red x's. So I'll have to hook back up tomarrow and see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeathermanShawn
Ok I'll just save the pid selections with the car year in them so I don't get confused. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Thanks again everyone for the tremendous help. :good:
Where can I find the 7.5.149 update? Only see 7.5.6 Build 139 on efiLive website.
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....ed-Feb-03-2011)
The top one listed is for v7.5.149
Yaaaay!!!! Did it with my LC-1 on AD1. Logged a short ride on Sunday! Made first correcctions on the tables and still very excited! Previously I had to AutoVE for the VE on normal load/ WOT and then do Calc.VE for MAF. Now it's all just in one!
This is a wonderful method VE on load, WOT and MAF, on a single session!!!!! Thanks Mr. Prick, joecar and WeathermanShawn. (Y)
Thank You.
It is always encouraging to hear success stories. I also think it is a pretty 'nifty' idea. I was getting concerned that the the difficulty some users were encountering just in understanding calculated pids was going to be an issue.
Glad to hear you understand the concept and took the leap.
It was a great team effort to accomplish this, so thanks for the kind words..:)
The key on overcoming those difficulties for pids file are specific instructions for our WB. Happened to me on the LC-1. By the way, isn't the latest update through EVI Live itself good enough for the nested calc pids to work? (7.5.6 Build 139 as Frozen WS6 mentioned)
Thanks for your comments. We will see what we can do.
The latest software build (149) addressed the following: Calculated PIDs were not being evaluated in the correct order. That caused calculated PIDs that depended on the value of other calculated PIDs to lag by one or more frames. Calculated PIDs are now evaluated in PRN order, the lowest PRN is evaluated first.
That was a big deal as the problem caused a frame lag in the data. But, it did not negate the fact that the user must still save a copy of the calc_pids.txt file to their own computer. From this end its frustrating to develop a Tuning Program and have it get hung up on the 'computer application' portion.
But, I am glad you figured it out. Perhaps you can aid us when we get stuck on another wideband analog conversion..:).
Edit: All necessary Calc.Pids have moved to Page 1 to keep them updated..
Thanks :cheers: good deal.
I still don't understand how is your fuel trim derived BEN any different from trims alone, or the classic BEN. Care to explain that, and I don't mean anecdotal evidence that ends with '..but it works for me' but have an actual derivation?
This Calculated Pid is the definition of the 'Airflow Correction' Term(s).Quote:
Originally Posted by redhardsupra
"iff({CALC.PE},{CALC.WO2BEN1}, {CALC.LTFTBEN})"
{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*3445.2/(5.669*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.SELBEN}"
The first few terms defines PE Mode, the last two say use WO2BEN if it is in PE Mode or LTFTBEN if is not in PE Mode.
yes, I can read equations. where did it come from? how did you arrive at it?
Welcome to one year ago Marcin..:grin:.Quote:
Originally Posted by redhardsupra
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....l=1#post117351
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....044#post117044
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....048#post117048
oh ok, so Joecar did all the heavy lifting, which is a complete rehash of my Sept 2006 paper, and then you respun it into some sort of 'methodology'. DJ Shawn and the WeatherGirls are mixing it up, yo... ;)
For the record...:).
The derivation of the CALC.VE & CALC.VET came 100% from the formula found in the EFILive Tune Tool (VE Table).
I sent Joecar my 'formula' and the results of the initial testing. Yes, Joecar did all the heavy lifting and humbly took little praise.
In reality you could take the CALC.VET formula..make the 'airflow correction' 1.00, and substitute your own 'airflow correction'. Or you could simply take the MAF Airflow, and substitute any airflow parameter you wanted. Then you can define your own methodology.
Thanks for your 2006 work. We finally got it to work!:).
Thanks Wolfie..
Ultimately disabling DFCO probably produces better results. Its odd..when you are in closed-loop and DFCO initiates, the LTFTBEN 'freezes' at the particular FTC..MAF, MAP decreases..so you get a somewhat reasonable low MAP VE % calculation.
Now when you are in PE Mode and shift (M6-DFCO), your AFR will spike and your VE % will not be accurate at that particular point. So, thats where the CALC.VET Filter comes in..I.E. ECT, and rapid TPS % are filtered out. So, good filtering eliminates the erroneous DFCO events.
I agree Disabling DFCO is probably superior to filtering. In all honesty, Wolfie I have struggled to keep the method as simple as possible. I know it sounds ridiculous that disabling DFCO is advanced, but you probably understand where I am coming from...
Thanks, and yes keep those logs under 1000 miles.. :).
Yes, I did read your paper which pulls together the equations for AFR, IPW, airmass/airflow, IGL to arrive at GMVE[g*K/kPa] and VE[%]: http://www.marcintology.com/tuning/HowSpeedDensityWorks16.doc.Quote:
Originally Posted by redhardsupra
:cheers:
(IGL has been around a long time, airmass/airflow more recent but still a number of years)
I took the equations for airmass/airflow and IGL and by a different route arrived at VE[g*K/kPa] and VE[%] in terms of log-able pids; we needed a VE pid that we could rely upon, see the thread on DYNAIRTMP_DMA vs CHRGTEMP_DMA.
:cucumber:
Shawn came up with the idea of correcting the MAF using LTFT and/or WB before calculating the VE... this gives two abilities in one log: corrects the MAF, and calculates VE from corrected MAF.
Question. I'm making my maps in the scan tool. I made VET (Average). Which is RPM/Map and I added the data filters.
I'm having trouble getting the SELBEN map right. I get MAFFREQ showing in the Row. I don't list a MAF Sensor Calibration option. I only have a MAF (Grams per second) or MAF (Pounds per minute) option. Also how do I make the map just show the Value like in Attach #9823.
From the Drop-Down menu, you pick 'BEN Selected from LTFT or WB (factor). Precision 3 gives you more digits than 2, etc..(number of digits).
For Value, see my attachment..You have to have ,Value..Column 1..
Thanks again. I was thrown off by the part that said MAF Sensor Calibration.
Mine came up automatically as SELBEN in that location, so I retitled it lol.
Everything matches all the attachments now :w00t:
Started it to run a quick test log. I noticed my wideband is way off of what efilive is commanding and reading. So I'm reading about how to match them.
It also didn't log any long term fuel trims on either bank.
Make sure you have LONGFT1 & LONGFT2 selected along with LTFTBEN.
Obviously you have to have operating narrowbands (NB'S) for it to log..:).
haha. I have all 3 selected, the front NB's are still there the rear are deleted. It's logging the HO2S11, SELBEN just fine. LTFTBEN shows 1.000 and doesn't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeathermanShawn
So my wideband says lean, efilive says fat. B3601 is commanded 14.63.
I read the thread about matching them. What file do I need to add this code into to make sure it all matches. I got it out of the other thread. {EXT.AD}*2.9932+7.315
This snow sucks just 2.5 more months left of it. Damn car gassed me out of my garage before I could get the temps up really good even with both garage doors open and the 35 degrees with gusting winds.
LTFTBENS probably are never exactly zero..:confused:.
Post up your Tune & Log. I would be curious to see what your LONGFT1 & LONGFT2 are.
As far as your other questions..I'm not sure what you are asking. In CALC.VET all you are doing is taking your filtered data..and apply the SELBEN Map to Table B5001 in your Tune.
If your Commanded is not meeting actual..I would have to see your Log & Tune. You have to make sure you are indeed closed-loop, etc..too many factors to guess..
Frozen,
Are you using analog wideband connection...?
If so, is if your wideband is a stock-programmed LC-1...?
If so, then in Shawn's calc_pids.txt file you need to replace {EXT.WO2LAM1} with {CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7
Code:*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO} * {EXT.WO2LAM1}"
Well me worthless 2 cents is this....
Marcin you disseminated the ECM calcs and proved the interpolation and crucial need to represent the actual value of those variables....
I appreciate the hellish amount of tedious methodical analysis, theory, and the establishment of FACTUAL DATA AND CONTROL LOGIC...
Shawn-----> Thanks for chomping at the bit;i.e. being the piece of sand in Marcins shell which help turn his honest to goodness proof of specific concept.Whith the help of Mr prick...delco...joecar... all the HARDCORE beta testers and tuners know how and feed back. To finally achieve something that only has a few post by Marcin; Essential his I IMPORTANT stamp of lack of disapproval!
You guys are the BEST!
Thanks redhardsupra for being such a analytical nitpicker Propelling The layman who we all LOVE for sticking to his slightest fudge factor...
THANKS Weatherman FOR PRESERVING uphill to here
;-)
yEAH I AM STOKED!
THANKS
THANKS SO MUCH ALL YOU GUYS ARE PARAMOUNT!
EDWARD SPITZER
;-) redhardsupra's reply of I told you so; SO LONg AGO!
Means Weatherman ACHIVED HIS GOAL of helping layman apply worthwhile logic instead of just fudging...
Damn I need a new battery mines dead.
UGH
Thanks Ed. That was a fairly humorous but quite accurate description of events.
We will just continue to work to make the application even easier.
Thanks for the comments..I had a good chuckle in how you described it all..:grin:.
wow, its been a long winter. I am going to have to give this a try. I loved the original calc ve. I will be upgrading to a 2002 os this spring and maybe a cos for the spray.
If you liked the CALC.VE, you'll really love the CALC.VET. Just as easy and Idle to Redline Tuning in just one log session.
If you need help when you do it, lets us know..
I will let you know when I do it. I have to get the 98/02 pcm swap done then we can give it a try. I know with the 98 computer there were some different things that wouldnt allow calc ve like your tutorial. (one of the reasons for the switch) It will be a few weeks. Its still winter here.
Len - How is it going? Let me know how the PCM swap goes, I'm thinking about doing the same.
After reading this thread it appears there is hope for us '98 PCM owners. If I understand correctly you can substitute the CALC.DYNAIRTMP pid in place of GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA when using this method to achieve the same results? If so, that is great to hear.
DrkPhx:
Hi there.
Yes, the CALC.DYNAIRTMP (Look-Up) is available for the 98 PCM. The actual DYNAIRTMP.DMA is the most accurate as it contains all the temperature modifiers affecting the 'charge temperature'.
Its a relatively small difference when it comes down to the actual VE calculation. So, my advice is go with the DMA Pid if you have it, but the CALC. DYNAIRTMP is a very close approximation.
Thanks. I noticed your pid system names are slightly different than mine. I also don't see the EQR pid in my drop list and I have the most recent version. Is this only available in a beta version in testing now?
You mean the Wideband EQR?
I just use the Serial Wideband Option..Load them BBL or V2. I always use the latest Beta downloads..:).
If you mean EQIVRATIO..mines under the Fuel Tab in the drop down menu..
Do i need to change the calc_pids.txt for changes in the cylinder volume?(other then ls1).
Yes...if you mean Engine Size.
You can put it here: Edit->Log File Information->Vehicle Options->Engine (cc);
Or change Calc_pids.txt: See Bold print for changes in Engine size..
*CLC-00-300
% 0.0 100.0 .2 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*3445. 2/(5.669*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.SELBEN}"
VE 0.0 2.468 .4 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*1 5/({SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.SELBEN}"
Note: The 'Displacement' issue is being worked on..should all be automatic. Edit->Log File Information->Vehicle Options->Engine (cc); Just to clarify, the change is for Engine Size..not cylinder volume Per Se.
Yes, the Wideband EQR pid is what I was referring to. I dont have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeathermanShawn
I load mine up via BBL..I use Joecar's description found here:http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....l=1#post128785
When you choose serial wideband through BBL, you can choose EQR & Lambda. Technically you may not need it (EQR). But it all depends on how you define the WO2BEN1 Pid. You could do it via Commanded AFR and Wideband AFR, but as I recall then you have to select GM.AFR also..you basically 'waste' a few more Pids that way.
EDIT: CALC.WO2BEN "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}"..You do need at least EXT.WO2LAM1 (or if Analog Defined..see page 1).
I/We have started a Draft Copy of the CALC.VET Tuning Tutorial:http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....l=1#post135867
Writing a Tutorial is a major project and the Draft Copy is primarily intended to aid Joecar and myself in the Editing process. It will be eventually merged with the existing CALC.VE Tutorial. We hope to accomplish this by September 1, 2011.
The Tutorial will be subject to numerous edits. It is offered now only as a convenience to our forum readers and participants. Many of the copy and paste functions have been taken directly from the existing CALC.VE Tutorial.
User input is always appreciated. Please keep it professional and topic-related. We welcome as much participation as possible. Thank you for your patience and understanding.:).
..WeathermanShawn..
Sorry for not seeing this sooner. I'm using a Dyno jet Wideband 2 with a gauge in my dash (it is factory programed). I hooked it into the efi live black box with the 3 wire plug. This wideband says inputs: are analog 0-5v. Outputs: gauge driver 0-5v analog, calibrated afr 0-5v analog.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
I'm not sure if that changes anything in that code you've written.