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I have an AL5(01 DURAMAX/ALLISON combo). If I drop back to my tow tune I get lockup in 2nd no problem, but my big tune with a hot trans and I don't get lockup until the 3-4 shift(makes for a NASTY 3-4 shift). The whole reason for people wanting these tables is because under big power you don't get lockup without a lockup controller.
In your "tow tune" are you in T/H mode? I'm assuming so. I'm getting lockup in the upper range of 2nd whether T/H is enabled or not. Actually, when not in T/H I get about 60% TCCDC right after going into 2nd and about 75% through the 2nd gear range (before shifting to 3rd,) I get 97.6% TCCDC and ~0 slip. Maybe it is just the massive Cummins torque that allows it to hit 625 RPM slip so quickly. :muahaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR
I looked at a few logs and they were similar, but when I get a chance, I'll log it again. I do not have any lockup controllers, just EFI tuning.
If you're getting lock-up in second gear, you're not throwing enough power through it. lol
On my maxeffort tune Im super lucky if i get lockup on the 4th gear shift. But most of the time i dont get lock up till im at the top of 4th. T/H or normal mode.
Its a hit or miss thing.. but would be nice if it could be made more consistant. As in Lockup in 2nd every time and I could get rid of my lockup controller.
Hi guys, could someone please explain to me ( and others reading this) what is this slip and WHY is it important in a manner we can all understand...thanks, Mike.
The "slip" that everyone is referring to is the 625 rpm minimum difference between engine speed and tranny input shaft speed that must be achieved before the T/C can lock. It appeared that no matter what you did to your tune, until you achieved this "slip" (~625 rpm) you would not be able to lock. It wasn't until the gracious OP and others that he acknowledged broke into the low-level code and found the info needed to override (or change) this slip limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist
Soon, we will be able to make that value reasonably whatever we want it to be. Hope that makes sense and if I have stated this incorrectly, someone feel free to correct me.
If I am able to power through this converter at lock-up, then I'll be asking for a $1,300 refund. When it locks, you know it! I was just having a little D-max/Cummins fun with my comment. ;-) If you meant something else, then please enlighten me as I am confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez91
Here is a log that I made today and it is with a tune that should be producing 500-550hp. It is from a roll in 1st. The trans was not quite what I would consider "hot", but my other logs do the same with a hot trans. Hopefully this may reveal something. One thing I do not understand is why there is such a separation between the commanded gear and actual gear positions. Is this normal?Quote:
Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR
Attachment 16553
i have never tried to tune anything myself with efi, so who would be the best person to walk me through what to do, or where can i have it done. obviously this is not your typical Duramax/Allison combo, so is there someone that has some experience with cummins/allison tuning? it shift fine other than these two complaints.
i have a cummins VP44 engine (450hp) with an A40 allison 6spd that the tcc does not lock up till 4th and unlocks on part throttle just like you are talking about fixing.
thx
April has come and gone. I have been looking for a new update, but I haven't seen it yet. Did I miss it, or is it still being tested/finalized?
It's in beta. It works.
JoshH, as one of our Cummins Beta testers you should have access to the Software build forum and access to the test software. PM me if you can't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshH
Cheers
Cindy
Sounds like the beta testing is going well. When should we expect the public release?Quote:
Originally Posted by cindy@efilive
We are on our 6th bets in 10 weeks....we hope that this is the last and that public elevate can be in the next 1-2 weeks.
Cheers
Cindy
Any updates Cindy? Been on the edge of my seat waiting for these tables for 8 years! :mrgreen:
Ben
This gonna work up to 1100 when full released? I think it's only 600 right now isn't it?
Another beta is now underway and we expect one more before public release.Quote:
Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX
Cheers
Cindy
Well i see it's finally out. Has anyone played with it yet?
Hello? I tried disabling it and that made it run like crap. What rpm limit should I try out first?
I have it working awesome in my TCM tunes but I've reworked about every table in the thing....part throttle and WOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinton
Loving this transmission software even more now, it drives like a completely different truck !!
In a 6 speed or 5 speed? I've tried disabling it and that didn't work. Tried raising full throttle slip to 800 that didn't work. Any ideas?Quote:
Originally Posted by KB3MMX
Tcc ramp rate by torque needs adjustment. Go higher than 800
Does anyone else think this table (D5072) even works? At least on the 5speeds. I tried going both ways with no difference set all the way to zero or 1 and max it all out and this changes nothing. Logically the controller should adjust to match the ramp rate in D5072 so there would be no need to adjust it from stock, unless you want an annoying jerk when it locks up. But with a triple disk I guess your at the limits of the control logic, whats weird is you can watch DC and it will ramp quickly up to about 30-40% for a couple seconds with no decrease in in slip speed. Then all of the sudden it DC jumps all the way up and it locks hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by vortecfcar
Messing with the max and min DC tables you can drop the maximum to a certain point about 30% or something like that and you will get a few normal lockups, then eventually it will set a code and start halfway lockup and relocking. Moving the max duty cycle up just slightly it goes back to normal hard lockup that's really annoying. So theres definitely no linear correlation between duty cycle and tcc clutch pressure.
So is there any alternate strategy to attack this? Im assuming this will be the last revision of the TCM, but it seems like there maybe could be a workaround of trick?
Believe new table will help in preventing TCC from trying to lock. Useful in keeping TCC from overheating. Believe that after enough slip, slip is enabled.
Just started trying new ideas but seems that really strong TCC lock after 600 rpm slip is going to be difficult to program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beav
You have it backwards. The slip limit is a delta between input and turbine speed, yes. But not as an enable. It's a disable feature that when the slip threshold is above 600 RPM it inhibits TCC apply. This is to prevent excessive wear to the lockup clutch friction material and eventual TCC failure. Since most people switch to a triple disc TC when they add hp this feature isn't as necessary. Raising the slip delta to 1000 RPM or even higher allows the TCM to apply the TCC with no regard for the actual clutch friction material or heat generated by applying it with a large delta rpm.
You are correct, I did not state it correctly. Wish I would have re-read it! Thanks for pointing it out. If anyone could explain it best, that would be you. Thanks for the clarification that the TCM actually "disables" the TCC's ability to lock above 600 rpm of T/C slip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brayden
With that, the whole premise behind this new EFILive feature is that you can now keep the TCC from inhibiting lockup at and above 600 rpm of slip, but at say 800 rpm of slip instead. It is like dumping a manual clutch at 800 rpm (or higher) of engine speed. But, as Brayden explains above, the parameter is there for your protection. I would not mod these tables unless you have the obvious upgrades.
Is there enough tables available (Min/Max Duty Cycle and TCC Ramp Rate) to successfully make a suncoast triple disk converter to lock up as smooth as a stock converter or at least somewhat reasonably? The control logic makes no sense if you lower the max DC; the TCC will command on and it instantly ramps up to the max value and delta RPM does not change at all until about 2 seconds later then magically delta RPM goes to zero. If the max DC is below about 65% or so, for the majority of TPS values <75%TPS, It will lockup at part throttle about like stock. But If the converter is locked and you push the throttle without unlocking once the turbo starts to spool it will start slipping. So if you raise the Max DC at higher throttle positions it will make it lockup hard again even at low throttle positions.
Is the controller just at its limits since there is so much apply area with a triple disk? or is there a way to trick it at least with the tables we have available in the AL5? You would think that you could just leave the tables alone and maybe lower the MIN DC and the controller could adapt, and no adjustment would be required with the ramp rate since you want it to lock like stock, but I guess DC and lockup pressure have some weird non linear correlation.
this is awesome. My buddy is out testing our tuning on his truck; moving the slip RPM up incrementally to get a feel for it. He's gone from feeling locked in 4th (stock) to the top of third (800rpm) and now all the way through third (1500rpm). No reports of drive problems or odd shifting. It's a 2wd LMM with a Big Dipper Stage IV. Next we plan on logging some runs :)
Wally
Is this 800 kpa? I have D5233 set to Disable, D5231 and D5232 are at stock values, and set the D5072 as shown in the screenshot below (values are in kpa). I haven't gotten consistent lockup in 2nd gear yet. Been nervous to increase the values over 250 kpa.Quote:
Originally Posted by vortecfcar
Just realized that has to be a kpa value, the table only goes to 146ish psi. I just tried setting the 400 and 600 ft-lb column to 900 kpa from 50-600 RPM, still not getting lockup until the 2-3 shift. Slip RPM right after the 1-2 shift is only around 330 RPM, and calculated torque is 487 ft-lb.
I am getting a weird thing where it looks like the TCC duty cycle increases, goes back to zero, and increases slowly again during 2nd gear. This happened on both WOT pulls I just tried. Any ideas what's going on?
Diff ratio is 3.42 and tire dia is smaller than stock, 30.75", not sure if that would throw anything off.
I cant seem to find those tables to adjust on my lbz tcm (a40?) i have updated to the newest versions of all efilive and cant find the slip limitQuote:
Originally Posted by thunder550
There is one op system that hasn't had it added in yet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ohh well that's probably mine. So if I switch to a different os I should see itQuote:
Originally Posted by dansdieselp
The 01 OS's don't have it mapped out, pretty sure all of the 02+ have it. If you're still not getting lockup in 2nd after you have changed the slip limit tables, go in to D5064, and lower the speed down for the lockup speed by 2-3 MPH or more, that should get you lockup. Even if you change the slip limit, you have to have the lockup speed low enough that there is a buffer between the 2-3 shift and the lockup speed, otherwise it won't lockup regardless of the slip limit settings.Quote:
Originally Posted by dansdieselp
The issue he has is with a LBZ A40. I know which one he is talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR
actually all the slip limit tables in efi are referenced to the wrong memory location as i have discovered based on the fact that i know what table needs to be modified. when i load my working 1200rpm slip limit tune into efi it show me a slip limit of 625rpm, i can change my 1200 limit to anything i like and reload in efi and it still shows 625. its so easy, i dont know how they messed up the reference location.Quote:
Originally Posted by dansdieselp
Too much copy pasta.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchd
If you want to send me a .bin file and the address, I can make a CAX file so you can edit it in EFILive. Might help some other people out.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchd
Sent from my FlashScan V2
I hope something becomes of this to help. I adjusted the table for my LMM and it reduced but did not eliminate the problem. Only Ben's lockup box actually cured it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchd
Have you also lowered the lockup speed in 2nd gear? It doesn't matter if you raise the slip limit, if you are to close to the lockup speed in that gear, the TCM will over ride lockup until the shift is completed. I think this is the issue alot of people are running into with no lockup even after raising the slip limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by n2brk
There are also a few more speed related lock up inhibitors not in EFI. Two that dictate min enable disable and an base value minimum speed lockup can occur at. If those are not lowered, in most OS's I have come across, the soonest possible you can get the TCC to lock is ~ 20 MPH. Which is close enough to the 2-3 shift that it will 90% of the time lock immediately as it enters 3rd Gear. Without changing those, Ben's box will always lock sooner.
LOL Its so true!Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchBox