And it's educational.Quote:
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
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And it's educational.Quote:
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
no, if education was involved, his science would be better. i'm unsubscribing, some people are beyond help.
Just working with what I've got...Quote:
Originally Posted by redhardsupra
I don't understand how people can be so one sided? Do you honestly believe that increasing a MAF table 20% is more right than decreasing the IFR table? If you want to talk science, I say they're both wrong. I'm not here to argue that and I'm not beyond gone. I just want to see what works, what works consistently, and what can be done to work consistently with a shorter lead time for tuning. That's the supply chain side of me coming out I guess...
Argh!!....I spent all that time reading thru this thread only to find everyone pissed off and stopped discussing this important issue.
great.
:cucumber:
Welcome ItzNota... :cheers:
Welcome to the forum ItsNota.
I only joined this forum about a year ago. If the only fight is over tuning methods (thats going to be infinite), thats a good one. I like it when guys think they are right and go to war. At least the passion for tuning is there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItzNota
Its a good place to hang out. Welcome :cheers:
:grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
Thanks alot guys....I hope to learn more about tuning and make a few friends while I am here...Quote:
Originally Posted by TFZ_Z06
Thanks for the warm welcome!! :grin:
maybe you could try to start a new thread instead of littering a sticky-quality thread tho?
you're right..you're absolutely right...sorry...I will do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by redhardsupra
Does anyone know if there is anyway to determine the injector flow rate short of pulling them out and having them bench tested?
See if you can read the part number on them, if it is recognizable then their flowrates may be published somewhere.
I looked can't tell easily. I'll pull one and hope there is a part number making the rest of this message irrelavant. I know there a blue top Ford SVO but when you look on-line they have several shades of blue. JFPilla and I determined a round about rate for them but we don't know exactly being that Ford and GM use different fuel pressures. So a ford 28lb is a GM something other pound.
Thanks, stupid I didn't just check.
Oh, those ones, there are about 4 different published flowrates for those...:doh2:
Look here Fuel Injector Flow Rates & Pictures
Sorry, been away for a while. Thanks for the link and all the advice everyone. I plan to start working on her again this week.:rockon:
ok call me blind, but i cant find the AutoVe tutorial.
Here you go rumblebox..http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/AutoVE Tuning Tutorial.pdf
Happy New Year to all from snowed-in Colorado!!!
It's also included in the V7 install, see C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Doc\Tutorials on your hard drive.
Aw nuts..... Here you go saying that this step is VERY IMPORTANT and the link to that IFR spreadsheet table is a dead link. It's not nice to tease us newbies........ :wallbash:Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
just take the IFR data that is there now and make a proportional change based on your new injectors. Then adjust theQuote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z
entire IFR table up/down until your STFT are close. This will get you very close if you use an inj style sim to what sin there stock.
Well, can you do it as simply as that when not only are there new injectors, but new intake manifold, new (427) engine, larger turbo housings on the STS turbos, and a new fuel system?Quote:
Originally Posted by TFZ_Z06
I'm just trying to figure out the current tune on my car and figure double checking what is there against what seems like SHOULD be there is a good way to try to figure this stuff out. The IFR table has to be wrong (it's a diagonal line instead of a flat line) with the mapped fuel pressure regulator I am using, or I am seriously confused about how that is supposed to work. So I would like to try to figure out what it SHOULD be.
I know my join date makes it look like I've been around here for a while, but such just is not the case. I registered when I purchased my copy of EFILive, and haven't touched it until just a week or three ago. So I'm a very raw newbie at this stuff. So right now I'm reading the hell out of this forum. And not planning to flash anything until I've got a good idea of what I am doing. Otherwise I would surely just make things worse. Not that the car is running bad now, but there does appear to be some rough edges that need to be taken care of.
Thanks.
A new intake manifold won't change idle vacuum or idle airflow, the fuel system should be coming in at the same PSI as the old one, a 427 idles very close to the same airflow as a 346 (my 12:1 416 does), proportionally more, and unless you stand on it the boost won't affect idle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z
IF that turbo is low boost, MAYBE you can keep the MAF. If you PEG that meter and get error codes,
you will have to go to COS5. COS5 is designed to tune boosted apps to 3 BAR. Check it out under custom operating systems. In my sig, you will see that I run it on my car and I have provided a stock file.
You are obviously correct to be careful w/that monster and I certainly respect that.
I would consider tweaking injectors rates to fit idle using STFTs (0 to slightly negative; clear fuel trims then adj IFR), then for top end you can make sure either your MAF is tuned to the expected AFR (preferably to AFR expected in the PE vs RPM table) or done via COS5 boost table, both with a wideband. That will get you very close.
Easier said than done! Good luck. Lots of good info on the site.
Does anyone have a current location to find the IFR Spreadsheet? The one I downloaded from post 1 is blank.
This one?
It is a different title but I hope it is the same.
THANK YOU
I think it is
[emoji2]
OK just checking if I have done this correctly
I found this
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psl4jxrllj.jpg
I took that info and put it into WitchHunter converter page to convert the 220 cc/min to 21 lbs/hr
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psakxkgpwe.jpg
Then I took the data from the first two pictures and placed it into the Injector flow rate calculator.
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psmdnuxede.jpg
My concern comes when I compare the results of the calculator to my tune file.
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...psrbw4atkp.jpg
Are they supposed to be that different? I noticed on the calculator the numbers increase with vacuum but the tune does not.
Dirktdolman,
Does your FPR have a MAP reference (i.e. air hose connecting FPR to intake manifold)...?
Did you measure rail pressure (with MAP reference hose disconnected), is it 43.5 psi...?
Do your injectors flow 21 lb/hr at 43.5 psi (3 bar)...?
IFR is flat for MAP-referenced FPR.
IFR is sloped for un-referenced FPR.
Dirktdolman,
Does your FPR have a MAP reference (i.e. air hose connecting FPR to intake manifold)...?
YES
Did you measure rail pressure (with MAP reference hose disconnected), is it 43.5 psi...?
I have not. Will RPM change this pressure (more fuel being used)?
Do your injectors flow 21 lb/hr at 43.5 psi (3 bar)...?
I am only going by what I have found on Witchhunter and other site about the OEM injectors I have.
Ok, so your IFR will be flat (as you saw in your tune file).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirktdolman
The FPR regulates rail pressure, so rail pressure will not be influenced by RPM changes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirktdolman
if FPR was un-referenced, then rail pressure would be constant (+/- 1 psi is acceptable);
if FPR is MAP-referenced, then FPR pressure equals FPR base pressure (contant) plus MAP...
i.e. rail pressure follows MAP.
( note: to measure rail pressure, temporarily disconnect the FPR reference hose, and measure the rail pressure. )
We need to know if they are rated at 43.5 psi or at some other pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirktdolman
If your rail pressure measures 58 psi (say)...
and if the injectors are rated at 43.5 psi...
then you have to scale the flowrate by multiplying it by sqrt(58/43.5)... (the spreadsheet does this).
Based on what I have found on the net about this OEM numbered injector it rated 220 cc at 3 bar (21 lb/hr at 43.5 psi). I just check and my pressure with the vacuum line to the FPR disconnected is 53 PSI.
This is my new calculation
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3zfooscn.jpg
You measured 53 psi (it should be 58 psi)...? What vehicle do you have...?
03 2500 HD 6.0l New pump and FPR. Maybe my gauge is bad. It is about 20 yrs old
Is that a GMC Sierra or a Chevrolet Silverado, and which platform (C or K)...?
03 Chevrolet Silverado K2500 HD 6.0L Automatic 4X4
The service manual give these specs (for key-on engine-off several times):
55-62 psi VIN: V, T, U
48-54 psi VIN: Z
VIN = engine code in VIN (8th letter/digit).