Please keep in mind we have to put in an AFR value in B3601
Hello Greg,
Thanks for the input as it is nice to have you in on this thread. I dont think there is the resistance to EQ that you think. I personally need to understand the fuel. In EFILive you do have to put in an AFR in B3601 and some of the tuners (me) use by default the 14.63 or 14.7. There have been many excelent posts put up such as 5.7ute, SSpdDmon, mr.prick and yours. This is an exelent teaching/learning issue and I for one am the student. Fuels are changing as we all know and I am really looking forward to the help in translating my tune to EQ not because of I like AFR better but it was easy and worked. Now that the fuel I can get locally for my car has changed for ever, I wanted to learn what this meant and how to adapt my EFIlive tune to EQ but mostly for the ever changing fuel and in this case 10% ethanol and maybe even E85. Did you see the http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html posted by SSpdDmon. That was a real eye opener. I do think this is more about learning for me it sure is. The IBPW issue is a good example. It would be nice to have someone like yourself explain the Big changes one must employ to use E85 and to expect much worse milage and how to pass all the EPA issues with these fuels.
Thanking you in advance as this has really taught me allot and I appreciate all the input very very much. Please keep in mind that we EFILive users do have to put in an AFR value in B3601 so I need to learn what that means all the way around with fuel and the tune.
Thanks for all the input from the guys on this thread or post and I am really looking forward to learning more.
Thanks all,
98 tigershark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eficalibrator
Guys, I just don't understand the resistance to using either lambda or EQR. I know you've been conditioned to see gasoline AFRs all along, but it's time to move on. You're only causing yourselves more unnecessary headaches.
Look out for the Injector duty cycles with ethanol!!???
I had injectors that were borderline for my motor. Now that I can pretty much only get 80-90% gas with 10-20% ethanol it in all likely hood that has put my injector duty cycles past the safe percent 80% and I do go to 90% when racing a few times a year. It takes more fuel and IBPW's with ethanol in the mix to hit the targeted air to fuel ratio whether tuning with AFR,EQ or LAMBDA.
In the case of E85 I have heard it cuts the gas milage in almost half. I have heard the AFR for E85 is 8.8 to 1. That is almost double the duty cycle for the injectors to hit the desired ratios. Is this correct????
98 tigershark
E10=13.81 Says GM performance, you do need 2 know AFR to Convert to EQ
I thought I would call GMPP to find out what they do. This is what I was told;
E10=13.81 AFR
E20+11.21 AFR
I took notes all they way down the line and cannot read my writing for the rest, Sorry! Also for their flex fuel vehicles they use a Composition sensor to determine the amount of alcohol in the fuel. And the computer does the rest. SSpdDmon was right when he said we might as well have a PID for the various types of ethanol fuel for the WBO2 sensors (ie his post)
It is important to make the correct adjustments. Another point was that one needs to be careful as to the fuel that you might mix (not knowingly or intentional), in other words from Gas to E*.* and Gas, as some Gas does not have the correct ingredients to mix them. So if I went to get gas in Portland and I have a 1/4 tank of E10 i need to be careful. I dont really know what I can do about that but the difference between E10 (13.81 AFR) and regular gas (14.7 AFR) is more than a little. So you still do need to know the AFR in order to get the right EQ and or LAMBDA. Once you know the correct AFR of the fuel in your tank, you can then tune with what ever you prefer. I wonder if there is a simple sensor we could buy to check the % of ethanol that we put in our tanks?
98 tigershark
With EFILive we are lucky to have the AFR setting to convert accurately to EQ
Thanks 5.7ute,
That is the real issue. You simply can not use EQ or Lambda for B3601 with EFILive (I do not know about HP or LS1 edit as I havent had that ever since I bought EFILive). It can inly be entered in AFR and it needs to be accurate. I am glad that Greg has gotten involved in this topic and am looking forward to his input. But with EFILive you do have to input an AFR in B3601 only as you cant use EQ or Lambda. The program wont let you. Have you looked at the program?
I do use EQ also but, need to learn what is the stoich for the EQ of 1 with the fuel and also the AFR for the program (B3601)
Also thanks GM308 that is very interesting. I have a case # with GMPP and they are great guys and always helpful. I too was a little surprised at the AFR for E10 as I thought we had the correct formula. The conductivity is also a very interesting point. Thanks GM308.
98 tigershark
PS 5.7, I had to chuckle about the race fuel (110 oct) as I did the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
5.7ute
Greg, it is not a resistance to using EQ or lambda. It is a question of accuracy.
For instance, when tuning the VE table using a custom operating system, we must command away from an EQ ratio of 1.0 to prevent STFT from occuring. If B3601 is incorrect for the fuel being used our airmass calculation will have errors. While it may be splitting hairs it is no different from having incorrect injector data in your tune.
After all, isnt tuning about having the tables accurately reflecting the hardware & conditions.