Great tutorial, helped me a lot once i downloaded the PDF and put it in a binder for easy access!
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Great tutorial, helped me a lot once i downloaded the PDF and put it in a binder for easy access!
Thanks for the compliment. We appreciate it.
For those who want more detailed/advanced information on Tuning via CALC.VET, we have started a page of 'Summary Notes'. Its all preliminary work, but it gives some data on how to blend your MAF and VE Table, along with some other tips..http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....-Summary-Notes
Again, just preliminary notes we are working on..
Joecar has come up with an idea to 'reverse' the CALC.VET Equation(s) to solve for MAF Airflow. I think it is a great idea. If there is enough interest we will start another thread.
Here is a brief introduction of the concept..
CALC.VET has been a huge success. One can calculate the VE Table, MAF, and Trims all in one log (simultaneously). However, AUTOVE is still hugely popular. There are some users who have a perfectly tuned VE Table, but who may desire to re-enable the MAF. Previously AUTOMAF has been the only method (unofficially) to calibrate the MAF after AUTOVE.
Now we believe we can take a VE Table and reverse the equation to solve for the MAF Airflow. So AUTOVE users now have a way to calibrate the MAF in the same log.
This may interest some Tuners. We will let you know, probably by starting a new thread shortly..
..Thanks..
Yes it has; however it requires a MAF (not a bad thing!) but is there any of this process/thinking we SD guys can leverage?Quote:
Originally Posted by WeathermanShawn
Mr. P. :)
Yea, the MAF thing..:grin:..
Originally it was designed for 'Beginners'..hence the MAF.
Well I didn't want to mention it, but..in reality you can apply a number of CALC.VET concepts to 'straight' Open-loop Tuning or pure SD Tuning.
The nature of SELBENS can be utilized whether doing MAF only, SD only, closed-loop, open loop or a combination of any/all. The easiest parallel would be SDCL. Disable the MAF, and use LTFT and WO2BENS using MAP and RPM as your MAP axis. You would just have to reconfigure the calc_pids.txt file to eliminate some of the Pids.
The reason I have not wanted to introduce all of the possible combinations was quite simply anticipating 'workload' and interest. I do all the Tutorials in my spare time and I hate to do anything half-a.. So, I was waiting until someone showed some interest.
But to answer your question..in reality you do not need a MAF to utilize simultaneous closed & open loop SD tuning. But, it might be nice to have a corresponding MAF airflow. You never know when you or a potential customer might want to go back to the MAF.
Let me know. I can always work something up..
P.S. Attachment shows both LTFTBEN and WO2BEN (AFR/EQ). This was all done in one simple log. So you would apply that BEN to your existing VE Table..and you could easily calculate a corresponding MAF Airflow (just in case)..
Thanks Shawn - yeah I'm definitely interested; I'll digest what you've shared here, I'm still "absorbing". :thumbs:
Mr. P. :)
Mr.P..
Let me think it over (presentation). I'll need to confer with Joecar as far as the calc_pids.txt and a few other issues.
1. If you are doing a pure Open-Loop SD Tune, this method would also calculate a corresponding MAF Airflow vs MAF Frequency. That may or may not be of use to a Tuner.
2. You can however do a simultaneous Closed-Loop SD Tune in combination with a wideband. So in one log you can Tune a VE Table using Trims and actual wideband data. And you could also have a corresponding MAF airflow if you desire.
We will get back to you..:)
Yes, we want to make the calc_pids.txt file as easy as possible.
Well this is the situation I am personally in. I understand it's unfeasible to go through the effort of crafting a tutorial process covering each conceivable hardware setup, BUT I offer that there are lots of fellas like me using COS-3 in CLSD, especially in the Gen-III truck crowd where it is now more common than not to add a significant power adder and drop the MAF sensor in the process; my point to you being, everyone who spends the dollars and time to run COS-3 should also have a functioning wideband especially when you can get a really good one for under $300 now - I would not even entertain attempting to explain to anyone how to "dial-in" a tune without a wideband, it's accepted best-practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeathermanShawn
Understood - not all of us are software developers!Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Well I'm seriously game to working on this with you, including testing on my vehicle as well as assisting with dev work and adding documentation; lemme know.
Mr. P. :)
O.K. we will work something up.
Luckily have been thinking about the CLSD for a while, so I think we can get something going. Joecar's brainstorm on solving for the MAF Airflow equivalent is quite an important breakthrough. While I have seen other methods that attempt to 'convert' DYNAIR to CYLAIR, none use the DYNAIRTMP.DMA Pid or concept.
The actual R&D of this method may not be as exhaustive as the MAF-Enabled concept. Its always good to fail the MAF, try it out in both Open and Closed-Loop. Then compare those results to a MAF-only Tune. They should match.
But new ideas and concepts are always exciting. And the SD crowd has not had any new Tuning methods of late.
Look for something in the next few days. Thanks for your interest..
We may take you up on this offer. The basic concept would be to take an existing VE Table (stock or otherwise), put the vehicle in closed-loop..attach wideband.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. P.
The pids selected would apply the LTFT Trims or WO2 reading (BEN). The computer code will 'know' if the vehicle is in closed-loop or PE Mode. After a log, you could apply the SELBEN correction to your existing VE Table. So VE Table, Trims all in one log. And you could have an accurate MAF Airflow equivalent should need you need it.
Once we get the thread going, you might be able to help us out with a log or two?
Thanks..
I'll start tonight. :excited:
Mr. P. :)
For those users that want additional information on Calculating MAF Airflow from the VE Table...CALC.VET in Reverse, see this thread: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....VET-In-Reverse
A link has also been provided on Page 1 (Appendix) of the CALC.VET Thread: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....tire-VE-Table.
I am Running cos3 with a innovate lc1 wideband any tips you can give me on doing this with E10 fuel that I have in my area? Currently I use a ben spreadsheet that calculates for the E10 can that still be used?
Hi W383,
Buy a test kit which measures alcohol content in gasoline ($30), it has a chart showing stoich AFR for alcohol %.
True E10 (exactly 10%) has stoich AFR 14.12.
Edit B3601 to be the stoich AFR of your fuel.
Then log GM.EQIVRATIO and EXT.WO2LAM1 (you need a null modem serial cable between LC-1 and V2), the BEN correction is {GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}... see WeathermanShawn's Calc.VET and Calc.MAFT tutorials, they include calc_pids.txt files with the BEN pid.
By using eqr and/or lambda, you avoid the AFR dependency on stoich AFR [i.e. AFR = Lambda * stoichAFR ]... i.e. EQR 1.18 is sufficiently rich for PE regardless of E00, E10, E20 (if understand my Exx meaning).
You can use your spreadsheet to sanity check the BEN pid... can you post it here please.
This shows the whole point of the EFILive software: to make tuning exercise simple/easy/quick and self-contained.
When i try to paste and multiply my MAF table it just maxes out most of it, am I pasting it wrong?
Hard to know from that description.
Can you post a screenshot?
One thing for sure it if you do it exactly as the Tutorial has it, you should have no problem.
Its probably a digit issue, but please post up..:)
Here are some screenshots, I must be doing something wrong cause it sure dont look right lol. Some info on the car if needed, its a 95 impala, LT1 with aftermarket heads and cam, with the 24x eficonnection system running on a 2002 computer. The first pic is the scantool, the 2nd is the tune tool before paste and the 3rd is after paste.
THanks.
Your map shows cell counts... it should be showing average cell value, click the x-bar (average) button, see pic attached.
Before you do the paste-multiply sanity check your cell values (they should all be close to 1.00, question any cells that are far).
Also, you can constrain the cell width, see attached pic.
I finally got to get a good log on my 98 after fixing a couple other issues.
Could someone refresh my memory. On my VET average map, is .98 perfect and anything above (higher numbers like 2.27) lean?
On the B0101 map: 0.98 and 2.27 look like g*K/kPa values... are these the units you're using...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen WS6
On the B5001 map: 0.98 is good value (it's a correction of only 2%); but 2.27 is not a sane value.
Post pic of your maps.
I do have my map set up as you posted g k/kpa. That's why I had to ask, since those numbers seemed off.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
I have to ask. Where will I find the how to post maps off of my scan and what program does it? I've looked through my scan tool user guide and didn't see it. It could be there but I didn't know it.
Thanks
Hosting-an-ImageQuote:
Originally Posted by Frozen WS6
Thanks for the help, I feel pretty dumb that it was so simple lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
No worries :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by s10mods
it's simple once you know how, otherwise it's a sea of buttons :)
Thanks. I hope these work.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...CVETSELBEN.png
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...LCVETDATA2.png
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...LCVETDATA1.png
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...CVETVETMAP.png
This last pic is the pic of my VET average map with the odd numbers that are really high.
Are you using a wideband...?
Frozen, maybe its my eyes..but the pics were too small for me to read..
I have the same question as Joecar..
I tried to post them larger and had no luck, not sure what I'm doing wrong there. That's why I tried to include the data pages so you could see all the pids being logged.
But I do have a Dyno jet WB 2. My logs seem to match the wideband numbers.
Sorry, I can't read them.
What was your question/concern?
Bummer.
On m VET average map I have numbers as high as 2.44 and 2.47, and numerous cells over 2.0 in the upper rpms. Could it really be that lean? I know my wideband has read 17.x a few times at idle.
I just want to make sure I've got thing correct before I start my copy, and pasteing.
Those numbers indicate your VE Table units are in g*k/kPa. There is no direct unit correlation between that and wideband AFR readings. I.E., it will be your BENS that indicate whether your lean or rich.
Are your SELBENS ~ 1.00 from 1500-12,000 Hz?
If cammed, Idle occasionally will go from ~14-17 AFR at Idle. Any more and yes that would be lean.
I suppose posting a Tune & Log would be better at this point. I'm not sure how to advise you whether your Tune is good to go yet..:confused:..
Frozen WS6,
try this: attach the pics directly in the post, i.e. in post #308 above, delete the url's, then click Manage Attachments and upload the files...
see post #2 here: Hosting-an-Image
What are your mods...?
Mods: 408 cid iron block, fast 92, 92 tb, ls6 ported+polished heads 2.08/1.60 valves, 11.7:1 compression, cam .248/.254 .622/.614 @114, kooks 1 7/8" stepped to 2" headers w/3.5" collectors, underdrive pulley.
340 intank walbro pump, highflow fuel rails, -8 fuel lines, 42.5lb fast injectors.
It is on spray but I'm working the NA tune right now.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...ETSELBEN-1.png
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...ETVETMAP-1.png
Attachment 11237Attachment 11236
Frozen:
On your SELBEN Map..if you could change 'Cell Count' to 'Average Value'..that will allow us to see the actual data..
I see you had a max of 11.9 degrees of KR. Whats going on there?
I usually get knock at low rpms, mostly idle. But that was the first time I've seen so much. I think it's my coil. So I'm going to swap one off of my WS6 and see if it clears up. Here are a couple of other scans of the knock area and the upper rpms. Also I switched the Selben to averages.
Attachment 11241Attachment 11242Attachment 11243
Your scantool still has MAP in psi units (you want kPa)...
on PIDs tab: on SAE.MAP do rightclick->Metric.
Also: for maps A and B, in map properties goto each tab Data, Row, Col and checkmark Show Units and save the map.
Also, I don't see the pid CALC.VEN... you're using an older calc_pids.txt file.
Also, Frozen is your SELBEN Table plotting vs MAF frequency or RPM?
At some point it might be easier to just attach the Log with all the MAPS you used.
I have a feeling their are some issues here that might not allow you to use this log..