using 14.047 for desired AFR and not 14.63?

Ah sawed dat you goes ta wal mart. I has been thyre 1nc. I sees yall had a lil prproblem thear cuz ya saided "The Automated Checkout at Wal-Mart said "select method of payment" , I selected "IOU" , it refused to take it .". Guesses whats, I has an auto matic IOU thear sos whoes really needn skoul anyhows, sea ah tolds ya soo. Anys 1 shuold noes ya nead an autamated IOU,s at da wal Mart, cuz its so dang big thare caint be mo than 1 in the whole wide wold. Did ah telya I live in da mountains, an we doent have a skoul fo dat eathers. Ifen ya all needs helpen at da wal marts, ah wood (yah all can maken alcohol outa wood too,see I aint needen no skoulen) be glad ta help u, ifen u all maid it fo free.
98 tigershark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chevy366

http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/ , L59 is Flex Fuel - B3101 , B3103 , B3601 , B3695 , B3701 , B4001 .
COS3 or COS5 is easier .
Doesn't EFI University teach this in their EFILive courses ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 98 tigershark

Ah sawed dat you goes ta wal mart. I has been thyre 1nc. I sees yall had a lil prproblem thear cuz ya saided "The Automated Checkout at Wal-Mart said "select method of payment" , I selected "IOU" , it refused to take it .". Guesses whats, I has an auto matic IOU thear sos whoes really needn skoul anyhows, sea ah tolds ya soo. Anys 1 shuold noes ya nead an autamated IOU,s at da wal Mart, cuz its so dang big thare caint be mo than 1 in the whole wide wold. Did ah telya I live in da mountains, an we doent have a skoul fo dat eathers. Ifen ya all needs helpen at da wal marts, ah wood (yah all can maken alcohol outa wood too,see I aint needen no skoulen) be glad ta help u, ifen u all maid it fo free.
98 tigershark

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ROFL! Saaayyyy whaaaatt y'aaallll!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chevy366

L59 is Flex Fuel - B3101 , B3103 , B3601 , B3695 , B3701 , B4001 .
COS3 or COS5 is easier .
Doesn't EFI University teach this in their EFILive courses ?

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Easier and cheaper than buying the $400+ sensor but
aren't they switchable, either or?
not true FF IMO.
How does the PCM know to change commanded EQ1 for % of ethanol?
L59 uses 1mb or 516kb PCM pick your poison. :)

With what I have learned in this post has really opened my eyes. I am sure we can figure out a way to know. How much is the sensor GM uses and can a gauge be made or does one exist already? It is one thing to change your tune, but you really still do not know for sure what is in your tank. Reflashing the PCM every time you fuel up isn't to practical either.
AN example is I bought gasoline at a place that sells pure 94 octane gasoline ( a Shell station about 65 miles from my house) and went to the races. My injector duty cycles were acceptable, and everything seemed OK as far as the trims AFR etc.
When I bought E10 premium fuel and raced, my IBPWs increased enough to trouble me and the duty cycle did in fact increase by around 6% so there does seem an answer is there as the O2 sensors seemed to know something I didn't.
Has anyone else ever noticed this? It would also seem that until we can get a grip on this our tunes are not close enough to be safe. I am so glad for the help as I am looking for a new fuel pump and this has changed my decision. Lets keep working on this, you guys are experts and I am very excited to see how this gets resolved.
Going to school on the EFILive forum,
98 tigershark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CalEditor

You could figure out off of the O2 sensors, but I am under the impression that is a ton of work. I think Mopars do it that way.

This does not come with a Sensor
http://www.zeitronix.com/images/ECAx120.gif
Ethanol Content Analyzer


or

Kost Moore Tools has a Fuel Composition Tester (J 44175) I use this tool to check fuel samples.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Ke...241610003r9255

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You could use a setup like this from Dualflash.
http://www.dualflash.com.au/images/P...29%20v2-sm.JPG

http://www.dualflash.com.au/index.php?categoryid=10

There is a thread around here that someone was attempting to add
the sensor and use an FF OS,
I wonder if he got it going.

http://www.efi101.com/ On the left side 5 down , look what they teach , oh my God !
You guys crack me up seeing I have visited this over a year ago , have fun figuring out what I already know .
Got to go , my Kubota needs a oil change , and the cows need to be fed , I might wander on out to the still and grab me some of that ethanol to drink , and maybe pour some in the tank as well .
Hmm . pulse width modulation , what the Heck is that .

Thanks CalEditor! That is some very good stuff.
That is one way to check every time you fill up the fuel Composition that is.
I looked at the Dual PCM and I think that is a very cool thing. But! we both know that we have to have a sensor in the tank that measures the Fuel composition in the tank and adjusts the AFR and their respective table in an on the fly fashion. Something kind of like a road runner except for the obvious automation that the PCM needs for immediate adjustments from the tank directly to the PCM and motor.
Currently we can:
1.)Have a few different tunes available to flash into the PCM for E10, E20, E30 and so on, But you have to be able to know test the fuel to know what tune to use.
2.)Go with 100% E85 and then replace most of the fuel system components (i.e. Pump, regulator, Injectors) as the stock parts on older Cars do not work well as to the needed increased fuel volume with the new E fuels.
3.) We can tune for E15 and learn to be happy with that. The E fuels is kind of like the 100% pure beef. The pumps say at least 10% ethanol or we use 100% pure gasoline. They do use 100% pure gasoline, But! They also use E10 plus 100% pure Gasoline. Spin!
The whole purpose of my tuning is to be as accurate as I could be with my EFILive and my WBO2 for economy, performance and regulations. Unless there is a constant Composition in the tank, the desired accuracy is just not there. In most cases not even close.
Now, Because of the current existence or the inevitable coming of different fuel I need to get a bigger than first thought fuel pump, Injectors and even a regulator. I think also that the E fuels kind of trick the O2 sensors a little, that is only my opinion as I am no expert. The new car requirements for pollution and our own personal requirements make it important that we figure this out in a practical accurate manner.

I suggest a fuel composition sensor in the tank that sends the correct stoich to the PCM, maybe through a small PCM that calculates this and than continually adjusts the appropriate tables in the factory PCM accordingly.
98 tigershark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr.prick

There is a thread around here that someone was attempting to add
the sensor and use an FF OS,
I wonder if he got it going.

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Didn't someone else explain how the newer OSs use STFT to detect Ethanol and make changes in the tune rather than using the sensor , think it was in the same thread .

OK Chevy366,
I give up, I cant find the place that addresses the Earlier PCMs (non flex fuel) and Ethanol fuels. Can you please post the link, Pretty please. Before you visit your still would be nice. I had a tractor too (A Kiote), but my cows are now eaten. Pigs are much easier.
98 tigerhsark