06 Turbo LL8 Motor swap into a 240sx Preswap questions.

Im planning on picking up an LL8 from an 06 trailblazer at a local junk yard. Ive been researching these cars for a while and it seems that the 02-05's have a picky ecu so Its best to get an 06+

My main questions about the swap are the compatibility issues. I would like my car to retain AC and use the factory gauge cluster with all needles working like stock. I would probably need to have a custom wiring harness made that uses both my stock nissan KA24 harness and the harness from the LL8.

Also, from my understanding EFI live uses the OBD2 port to flash the ecu, so i would need to keep an OBD2 port plug-in.

So when it comes to tuning, EFI can tune the P12 (2006-07) LL8 ecu to run boost, larger injectors, etc? I read a few cases where the P12 could not be read and i believe that is currently still being fixed?

Im also planning on running a T-56 manual transmission out of a camaro SS

Anything I have missed, forgot, do not know and should before this swap?

Should be no issues with EFILive working on any year of the P12.
The main problem you have is the tables in the LL8 version of the P12 are not set up for boost (unlike the LSJ). You could go double in injector size though. I'm not so sure how it would handle boost I'm afraid.

The 06-07 LL8s are indeed not setup for boost but you should be able to work around that using the MAF table. At least thats how Ive seen it done on the I5 Colorado which uses the same P12 PCM.

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Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22

The 06-07 LL8s are indeed not setup for boost but you should be able to work around that using the MAF table. At least thats how Ive seen it done on the I5 Colorado which uses the same P12 PCM.

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Thanks for the reply's guys!!

The turbo will most likely be run on its own boost control... probably a manual or a simple electronic. As long as efi live doesnt give me any trouble with the A/F tuning, timing, maf, etc we should be ok.

Will having a manual trans using that LL8 ecu cause problems or can efi live tune around that?

I dont know if the P12 with a TB cal will like the manual, but then again I guess you can just run it then turn off whatever DTCs get thrown once its together.

Should be ok for everything if your plan is to run the turbo using a standalone. Download the software and Ill post up an 06 TB file for you to take a look at.

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Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22

I dont know if the P12 with a TB cal will like the manual, but then again I guess you can just run it then turn off whatever DTCs get thrown once its together.

Should be ok for everything if your plan is to run the turbo using a standalone. Download the software and Ill post up an 06 TB file for you to take a look at.

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what kind of stand-alone? Ive seen a guy named "EFI-DIY" do a megasquirt using an EDIS...

Id prefer a more simple installation if its possible. Stock computer with Air conditioning, working gauges, etc

Yea Marc and I talked about the cam buy he was organizing, I wanted to get in but alas being a broke college student I didnt have the $$$ around for the blanks.

What I mean is you'll probably have to use a piggyback controller to control the fuel and spark once you get into boost. If you dont you'll have to set the spark and fuel to be what you want in the PCM so that the last tables it sees before the MAP maxes are what you want for fuel and spark. I think if you use the MAF you might be able to get a better handle on fuel and spark until you max it out, then I dont know what you can do.

update?

Ive learned more, and if you want to do this honestly Id use an 07-09 I6 and run an E67 ECM and T42 TCM. (Yes I know the 07 I6s used the P12 but they have a 58x crank reluctor so they are compatible with the E67 which has more support in EFILive than P12s do) Most flexible solution, can run whatever trans you want as long as you give the E67 gear feedback.

I know a member on trailvoy.com swapped an 06 I6 into a Supra but he used HPTuners for tuning. Paired it with a manual trans from a Solstice IIRC (cant find the thread for some reason). He got it up and running a few weeks ago, havent seen any driving vids besides a quick pull out of the garage as he needed to plumb the coolant (I know, I wouldnt run it without coolant either) and a few other small things.

found it!

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=51636

things have been moving slow on my end thanks to the economy. I finished college in December so im currently job hunting. Once im settled this project will be back up and running.

I hope you find a good one that you like...:cheers:

just wanted to bump this project back up... its still in progress... currently searching for a good motor candidate. So just to recap... i need to pick up a newer engine 08+ with the e67 ecu?

also... i wanted to share this... this is the motor that got the idea started back in 09'... i met with the guys this year at the Gatornationals (top fuel drag races) and got a few pics of the engine... its a trailblazer 4.2 I6 thats been converted to carb and a distributor ignition system... its been destroked a bit, built, etc ...makes 600+whp NA!!!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...als2010065.jpg

also... from what I read... the LL8 guys are asking for an OS (im assuming oxygen sensor?) that reads more than 1 bar of boost... apparently... the stock ecu likes to throw the car into limp mode if it see's anything more.

opinions, comments, suggestions?

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Originally Posted by All4bspinnin

also... from what I read... the LL8 guys are asking for an OS (im assuming oxygen sensor?) that reads more than 1 bar of boost... apparently... the stock ecu likes to throw the car into limp mode if it see's anything more.

opinions, comments, suggestions?

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It has to do with the internal PCM code and the fact that the PCM uses a hybrid alpha-n/Speed Density fueling model.

But, this is only applicable to the 02-05 P10 PCMs, hence why you need to look for an 06-09 motor. As I stated before, use an 07-09 motor and pair it with the E67 ECM and the T42 TCM (if you run a GM trans).

Summary: Buy an 08-09 motor complete with the wiring harness to make it dead simple, an 07 motor will work if you use the 08-09 wiring and ECM/TCMs.

The E67 can run up to 2.5 Bar of boost in stock form, just scale the VVE properly and run a 2 or 3 Bar MAP sensor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22

It has to do with the internal PCM code and the fact that the PCM uses a hybrid alpha-n/Speed Density fueling model.

But, this is only applicable to the 02-05 P10 PCMs, hence why you need to look for an 06-09 motor. As I stated before, use an 07-09 motor and pair it with the E67 ECM and the T42 TCM (if you run a GM trans).

Summary: Buy an 08-09 motor complete with the wiring harness to make it dead simple, an 07 motor will work if you use the 08-09 wiring and ECM/TCMs.

The E67 can run up to 2.5 Bar of boost in stock form, just scale the VVE properly and run a 2 or 3 Bar MAP sensor.

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Awesome info Scarab! Thank you!

So the newer engines should do fine with tuning on boost?

Now here's my next question... purchase an 08-09 complete engine but what should i run for a transmission? Ive seen the supra swap and i've asked a few questions over on trailvoy

Not real sure about what clutch/flywheel to run and what options do I have for trans?

Well all the engines would handle it lol, just couldnt tune the 02-05 PCMs to compensate for it. But GM redesigned the motor in 06 so you're better off with the 06-09 motor anyway.

Trans, Id talk to the guys on the TrailVoy forum. limequat is using a Solstice trans, but I dont know what the Austin-Healey guy is running. I can help you with the electronics side, but as for the trans thats up to you as I dont have a clue.

thanks again...

limequat and trout got back to me about the trans setup. just a few more questions to be answered and we'll be off and running

so look for an 06 motor... didnt the 06/07 come with a different ecu than the 08/09's?

No, look for an 07-09 motor. 06 motors have the "old-style" aka 02-05 crank reluctor (7x) whereas the 07-09 motors have 58x reluctors. The 06-07s use the P12 PCM (which is better than the P10, but not as flexible as the E67/T42 found in 08-09). If your plan is to boost and you're looking for good boosted support, get an 07-09 motor so you can run an E67 (while if you buy an 06 motor you'll be stuck with the P12). (Look at my post, #14)

02-05s use the P10 (all years interchange)
06-07s use the P12 (06s are compatible with 04-06 Colorado/Canyons plus others, 07 is unique to 07)
08-09s use the E67 ECM for engine control and the T42 TCM for trans control.

got it, thanks scarab

Quote:

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Originally Posted by All4bspinnin

also... from what I read... the LL8 guys are asking for an OS (im assuming oxygen sensor?) that reads more than 1 bar of boost... apparently... the stock ecu likes to throw the car into limp mode if it see's anything more. opinions, comments, suggestions?

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btw, OS would be referring to 'operating system'

All4bspinnin : did you ever do the project?

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Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22

No, look for an 07-09 motor. 06 motors have the "old-style" aka 02-05 crank reluctor (7x) whereas the 07-09 motors have 58x reluctors. The 06-07s use the P12 PCM (which is better than the P10, but not as flexible as the E67/T42 found in 08-09). If your plan is to boost and you're looking for good boosted support, get an 07-09 motor so you can run an E67 (while if you buy an 06 motor you'll be stuck with the P12). (Look at my post, #14)

02-05s use the P10 (all years interchange)
06-07s use the P12 (06s are compatible with 04-06 Colorado/Canyons plus others, 07 is unique to 07)
08-09s use the E67 ECM for engine control and the T42 TCM for trans control.

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Just wanted to clarify ScarabEpic22, do all P12's use a 58X crank reluctor wheel with a 4X cam sensor? Or was it just the 07's that went 58X , 4X while the 06's still had 7x, 1x?

I was wanting to update the PCM Swap chart to include the swap that you are detailing for the I6 guys.

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Originally Posted by turbo_bu

Just wanted to clarify ScarabEpic22, do all P12's use a 58X crank reluctor wheel with a 4X cam sensor? Or was it just the 07's that went 58X , 4X while the 06's still had 7x, 1x?

I was wanting to update the PCM Swap chart to include the swap that you are detailing for the I6 guys.

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Precisely, this is why Im so adamant for 07-09 motors, not just 08-09s.

So it works out like this:
02-06s: 7x crank, 1x cam (I think)
07-09s: 58x crank, 4x cam

02-05 P10s all interchange
06 P12 is unique (04-06 P12s in the Colorado/Canyon work here too)
07 P12 is really unique, only made for 1 year
08-09 E67s are generic

How hard would it be to put the e67 into the 2007? Just the pcm swap ? Same style pcm connectors ? Any other wiring or other changes needed?

Yep, you'll need the 3 E67 connectors and enough pins (find a junkyard and steal the pigtail) plus a T42 harness as the 07 still used a PCM, not ECM\TCM combo. That should be the only wiring differences but Im not 100% positive.