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LC-1 widband hook up
can someone please help out a dummy? I have the LC-1 and have no idea how to make it work with this flashscan. I tried to do the step by step instructions found in the fourms here by cut and pasting it into the file as shown but I couldn't find the pid afterwords. also, on which prong should the Neg side of the wideband go into on the cable? the left side or right side? I need to go to the classes you are having but that's isnt for a while and would like to use the widband please help me thanks Ace68.
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2 Attachment(s)
You will probably need to uncheck the "Supported" check box in the [Data(F8)] tab page in order to see your new PID. It also makes it easier to see all your calculated PIDs by selecting (Calculated) in the System drop down list box.
If it has a red (or grey) cross through the icon then it is "not supported" for some reason. You can see the reason by right clicking on it and selecting "More info...".
Usually the reason wil be that you have not selected the required {EXT.AD1} or {EXT.AD2} PID.
If that is the case then choose "External" from the System drop down list box and select the {EXT.AD1} and {EXT.AD2} PIDs (it does not matter if they are both selected).
Then go back to the (Calculated) PIDs and see if the cross has gone from your wide band O2 PID.
The 3 pin plug is for A/D voltages (i.e. wide band input) see image for pin descriptions.
Paul
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yes sir you do man!
bang it's on However, when I did the cut and past did I do it correctly as far as getting the proper air fuel because it is reading a mesurment of 12.1 at idel here is my file
# ================================================== ============================
# File details
# ------------
#
# This section defines various details about the file format.
*FILE
#Parameter Value Description
#---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
VERSION 7.1.1 File version
DECSEP . Decimal separator used in this file
# ================================================== ============================
# Units
# -------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section
*UNITS
#Code System Abbr Description
#-------- ---------- -------- ------------------------------------------------------------
-----
afr None mafr "my air fuel ratio"
# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}*2+9"
# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.ACME_AFR F001 CLC-00-001 AFR Fuel "my Wide band AFR"
You rock, your flash-scan rocks, me I don't rock so much.
thanks for your help dude you the man!
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I think I may need to recalibrate the sensor tomorow because I think when I turned on the software that came with it I recalabrated the unit while it was inside the pipe. it was an mistake on my part. :cry:
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More info (LC-1 manual)...
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so on SSpdDmon you can just replace the stock sensor with wb? I mean the pcm will still see it as a narrow band and the you can log on efilive as wide? Just got my lc-1 and ready to experiment
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87gmc
so on SSpdDmon you can just replace the stock sensor with wb? I mean the pcm will still see it as a narrow band and the you can log on efilive as wide? Just got my lc-1 and ready to experiment
Check out this screen shot of the narrow band simulation from a wide band sensor: http://www.efilive.com/ss/w02_wot.gif
WO2 AFR = wide band
O2 SIM V = narrow band simulation.
In the bottom chart, the O2 sim is logged next to the actual factory narrow band so you can compare them side by side.
Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacky
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87gmc
so on SSpdDmon you can just replace the stock sensor with wb? I mean the pcm will still see it as a narrow band and the you can log on efilive as wide? Just got my lc-1 and ready to experiment
Check out this screen shot of the narrow band simulation from a wide band sensor:
http://www.efilive.com/ss/w02_wot.gif
WO2 AFR = wide band
O2 SIM V = narrow band simulation.
In the bottom chart, the O2 sim is logged next to the actual factory narrow band so you can compare them side by side.
Paul
So paul im guessing this method works? I'm just trying to keep the pcm from going into fits
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I 'think' one of the problems is the O2 inputs to the PCM are kinda 'floating' (I might be wrong), but they are not just a simple GND and signal input. The 'Lo' side of the NBO2 output is not tied directly to GND.
Most of the simulated O2 outputs don't account for that, this can cause problems. I must confess, I've never tried the PLX simulated NBO2 output into a PCM, I have logged it and was impressed how close it tracked to a real NBO2 sensor.
Cheers,
Ross
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ok i get you. I'm trying to a figure a way to log my afr on efilive without having to put another hole in the exhaust. i figured if i just replaced the nb with the wb for a few logs there was a way to make the computer think the nb is still there.
Does leaving one of the nb disconneted for a few open loop runs affect the pcm in anyway?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87gmc
so on SSpdDmon you can just replace the stock sensor with wb? I mean the pcm will still see it as a narrow band and the you can log on efilive as wide? Just got my lc-1 and ready to experiment
The PCM sees the NB output (0.000 to 1.000mV).
EFILive sees the WB output (0.0 to 5.0V) via the FlashScan AD1 or AD2 input.
The LC-1 software lets you setup the LC-1 output voltage ranges (0.000 to 1.000mV for NB, 0.0 to 5.0V for WB); see the LC-1 manual.
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got it all installed. I put the WB in place of the narrow band then i tapped into the purple wire and hooked that to analog output one. The rest i left going to the hardness for the computer.
Question my narrow band on efilive is showing a constant volts around 448 or so its not switching? Is this normal or is there something else i need to do to make it switch.
Second, wb showing its running very lean when giving it gas at idle.
Third when i go into to the programmer for lc-1 its giving me some outrages voltages numbers and stating it is custom instead of 14.7 i switch it but it seems to always go back to that.
Also just put my nb sensor back in and connected everything back up computer still showing around 440 and hardly no switching, think my sensor took a dump or did i mess it up?
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You need to connect the NBO2 sensor ground to the analog ground wire on the LC-1 harness. This way the analog output from the LC1 is referenced to the same ground as the input on the PCM.
If the grounds were not connected together your PCM would likely be getting an inaccurate input from the LC-1 and would try to pull/add fuel to compensate for it, which would explain your wideband reading lean.
I can't explain why the sensor wouldn't be switching even after putting the stocker back in. Go ahead and clear out your LTFTs using the scanner bidi controls and see if that resolves the problem.
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Ok so i use the tan and purple wire. I was missing a wire Thanks for the help.
Figured out why the nb was working wire became lose from where i spliced it back together.
Thanks
PSWired
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Got my LC-1 hooked up this weekend and every thing is working fine. I used the plug under the drivers seat. Has anyone make a copper shield for their LC-1? Is it really needed? I guess it would not hurt.
Now to get some running time. How do you know when you have the VE table correct? I guess the autotune MAP would be 1.00. I am using 13.0 as my Commanded AFR. What will need to be changed after I get the VE table on? Should I keep the MAF? I guess I will need to make sure my PE vs RPM is set correct. What AFR should I go for?
Bill
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Like I said on Tech, I like to use a AFR of 14.7 for everything from 122*+ and 15-70kPa. From 75 kPa - 105 kPa I set it to 12.96 and make sure my PE table is disabled by putting all fields to 14.7 or set the map to enable PE at 105. This will make tuning PE cake later as it is almost done already. Ditch the MAF.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black02ss
Like I said on Tech, I like to use a AFR of 14.7 for everything from 122*+ and 15-70kPa. From 75 kPa - 105 kPa I set it to 12.96 and make sure my PE table is disabled by putting all fields to 14.7 or set the map to enable PE at 105. This will make tuning PE cake later as it is almost done already. Ditch the MAF.
Thanks Black02SS. You have been a big help. Now if I could just get my idling to smooth out. It changed after the days started to get hotter and after a CatchPan install.
Bill
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I can try and help your issues, but don't want to Hi-jack a thread. Hit me a PM or Email.
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this is the calc_pids.txt I use
Quote:
# ================================================== ============================
# File details
# ------------
#
# This section defines various details about the file format.
*FILE
#Parameter Value Description
#---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
VERSION 7.1.1 File version
DECSEP . Decimal separator used in this file
# ================================================== ============================
# Units
# -------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section
*UNITS
#Code System Abbr Description
#-------- ---------- -------- --------------------------------------------------
# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- ---------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-002
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11}/{GM.AFR}"
*CLC-00-003
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "({EXT.AD2}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-004
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12}/{GM.AFR}"
# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ---------------------------------
CALC.AFR_LC11 F001 CLC-00-001 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 1 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_Lc11 F002 CLC-00-002 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 1 - LC-1"
CALC.AFR_LC12 F003 CLC-00-003 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 2 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_LC12 F004 CLC-00-004 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 2 - LC-1"
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I also had to update my sae_generic.txt file. I was getting volts for the Ben_LC-1.
Bill
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Another dummy here... :oops:
I plan to leave my existing O2s in place and put a bung in for the WO2... so I won't be chopping up any wires to existing O2s. The WO2 must be turned on when the ignition is switched on.... so how have people hooked up their LC-1s to a (switched) 12V source? :?
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You 'should' be able to grab 12V from the Std O2 heaters, I don't know if that works but I can't see why it would not.
Because I use the PLX with the display that sits in the car I grabbed 12V from an unused fuse, I don't even remember what fuse it was, but it was something only fitted to the upper level vehicles (Calais etc).
Cheers,
Ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPX
You 'should' be able to grab 12V from the Std O2 heaters, I don't know if that works but I can't see why it would not.
Because I use the PLX with the display that sits in the car I grabbed 12V from an unused fuse, I don't even remember what fuse it was, but it was something only fitted to the upper level vehicles (Calais etc).
Cheers,
Ross
Thanks Ross. :)
Btw, the instructions manual states that the fuse should be 5A (min)...
"Connect the 12V supply wire to a switched 12V source in your car. A switched 12V source goes on as soon as the ignition on the car is on. Make sure the connection is fused with a fuse of minimum 5A."
I'll give it a go... hopefully sometime this w/end... or next. ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSbaby
I plan to leave my existing O2s in place and put a bung in for the WO2... so I won't be chopping up any wires to existing O2s. The WO2 must be turned on when the ignition is switched on.... so how have people hooked up their LC-1s to a (switched) 12V source? :?
This thread has an example:
http://efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1818
You should be able to get a connector (new, or from an old HO2 sensor) and splice the WB02 wires (heater, grounds, NB signal) to it, and then connect to HO2S subharness; so your WBO2 replaces (and simulates) your NB02; and your WB signal goes into the car to connect to your FlashScan; be sure to tie everything down, and route away from exhaust pipes.
Edit: And like Ross said, just connect the controller power/ground to the heater power/ground.
("...don't cut a hole in your headers...")
:)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPX
You 'should' be able to grab 12V from the Std O2 heaters, I don't know if that works but I can't see why it would not.
Because I use the PLX with the display that sits in the car I grabbed 12V from an unused fuse, I don't even remember what fuse it was, but it was something only fitted to the upper level vehicles (Calais etc).
Cheers,
Ross
You may try this if it will be of help to you~
I purchased a small 12v Yuasa gel-filled motorcycle battery, a fused cigarette lighter adapter lead and a black/red jumper lead from Radio Shack. I integrated the working end of the cig. lighter adapter wiring to the battery posts, attached one end of the jumper leads to the same posts~ color corrosponding for safety and attached the other end of the jumper leads to the power source input on the LM-1.
This allows the LM-1 to be fully warmed up, calibrated and operating when you first turn the key so you can record start-up data, that would otherwise re-start the LM-1's warm-up routine from the interrupted power it would typically get during engine cranking without the battery's intervention.
The battery then in turn stays fully charged while the LM-1 is in use because it receives it's re-charge current from the vehicle's charging system and one never has to worry about export sensor data being skewed due to low input device voltage. It remains at a steady 13.3-14.0 v at all times. Also, using a redundant battery in the system provides voltage dampening of the input current to the LM-1, which also increases it's overall accuracy.
I've done this with my system and it works very well. :)
HTH's
-Roland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
This thread has an example:
http://efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1818
You should be able to get a connector (new, or from an old HO2 sensor) and splice the WB02 wires (heater, grounds, NB signal) to it, and then connect to HO2S subharness; so your WBO2 replaces (and simulates) your NB02; and your WB signal goes into the car to connect to your FlashScan; be sure to tie everything down, and route away from exhaust pipes.
(
"...don't cut a hole in your headers...")
:)
Personally, I'm not if favour of replacing my stock O2s as the WO2s have a reduced lifespan... from my understanding. However, I was considering your approach and thinking of purchasing 2 WO2s and daisy chaining one off the other... as an alternative option.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSbaby
Personally, I'm not if favour of replacing my stock O2s as the WO2s have a reduced lifespan... from my understanding. However, I was considering your approach and thinking of purchasing 2 WO2s and daisy chaining one off the other... as an alternative option.
If you want to run it just to tune, then replace the stock sensor with the wideband and tune the car in open loop. Then, put the stock sensor back in when you're done tuning and return to closed loop.
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I've successfully used the Bosch wideband sensor from a VW motor car application with very good durability when used in a permanant location such as used for narrow-band emulation to the GM PCM.
The number on the sensor is #021-906-262. Given the known durability of VW's (and German vehicle engineering in general) I suspect that this sensor should fair well for accuracy in the long term, especially since VW includes these in their production-oriented standard passenger cars that commonly exceed a hundred thousand miles within their useful life span. The cost for these sensors is just under a $100 and they can be found at any local VW dealer across the country.
FYI if interested. :)
- Roland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSbaby
Personally, I'm not if favour of replacing my stock O2s as the WO2s have a reduced lifespan... from my understanding. However, I was considering your approach and thinking of purchasing 2 WO2s and daisy chaining one off the other... as an alternative option.
If you want to run it just to tune, then replace the stock sensor with the wideband and tune the car in open loop. Then, put the stock sensor back in when you're done tuning and return to closed loop.
That's right, you leave the WBO2 in for a few weeks while you tune, and then you put your NBO2 back in (...why waste a perfectly good NBO2...).
...Unless you want to auto tune everytime you drive...
:D :D :D
:slugging down a beer:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
...Unless you want to auto tune everytime you drive...
:D :D :D
:slugging down a beer:
You mean normal people don't do this??? :lol:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
...Unless you want to auto tune everytime you drive...
:D :D :D
:slugging down a beer:
You mean normal people don't do this??? :lol:
:lol: ...I don't know what's normal anymore... :lol:
:D :peeling_tyres:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSbaby
Personally, I'm not if favour of replacing my stock O2s as the WO2s have a reduced lifespan... from my understanding. However, I was considering your approach and thinking of purchasing 2 WO2s and daisy chaining one off the other... as an alternative option.
If you want to run it just to tune, then replace the stock sensor with the wideband and tune the car in open loop. Then, put the stock sensor back in when you're done tuning and return to closed loop.
The only problem being (apart from all the maintenance work) that I want to tune my AFRs for driveability, not just the race track. Tuning is about being thorough... near enough just isn't good enough! :D
In other words, I just can't leave my Flashscan in the cupboard... I need to use it, it's too much fun and any excuse will do! ;)
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Too right, mate, daily driver can see whole spectrum of RPM and MAP.
8)
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Day 1 in WB02 install world.
Spent most of the day figuring out what wire went where, trying to find my multimeter and hefting on the old O2 sensor.
Finally got the wiring figured out and the old O2 sensor out.
Ready to go, but wait, Im in London and its getting dark at 4pm no more time! Dam, patch the old sensor back into the connector and with a liberal amount of antiseize back in it goes.
Now I know what goes where Ill start again, hopefully its not to cold and wet to lye on the driveway again.
What do you guys think of putting the LC-1 and wiring in the cabin by coming up around the gear shifter? Seems a little better than tying it underneath the car. It looks like the WBO2 cable will be long enough to get there. This is in a VT2 Holden by the way.
Where is everyone else mounting theirs?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Those links are no longer any good since the Forum Upgrade.
:banana:
Bill
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Here's a collection of useful inks regarding LC-1 hookup:
showthread.php?t=639
showthread.php?t=564
showthread.php?t=569
showthread.php?t=1012
showthread.php?t=1004
showthread.php?t=749
showthread.php?t=241
Maybe we need a separate subsection for wideband hookup details (wiring, pids, etc).
Cheers
Joe
:banana:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecar
Sound :coool: to me....
Bill
:cheers:
