4L60 and shift kit

I had my 4L60 built to handle more power and one of the improvements they did was to add a shift kit and increase the line pressure. I have read that when you have a built tranny you should zero out the adaptives and a buddy who has been tuning for years tells me that if I don't the tranny will not last because the shift kit it trying to shift fast and firm but the pcm is trying to stop it from doing so.

My question is do I have to remove the TM or is it just better to do so?

I had not done so yet because it was shifting really firm already. It would squeal the tires in the 1-2 shift at part throttle and I did not want it any firmer. But I recently put in a higher stall tq converter and now it is not so firm so I was thinking of reducing the TM a little. Mt thoughts were to lower the numbers in the "normal" mode and zero them out in the "performance" mode so that when I hit the tow/haul mode at the track it would shift faster and firmer.

For sure zero-out the adaptives. AFA torque management, if the trans has the upgraded parts to handle the hit then go ahead and reduce if not eliminate TM, but it's completely optional. TM does not slow down the actual shift, it just causes the motor to nose over before commanding the shift sequence. A few people with trucks (heavier vehicles) keep a little TM in their daily driven tune, not so much that it makes the motor completely go limp before shifting but enough to take the edge off the 1-2 upshift. TM never kills trannies or drivetrains, it just makes performance go down the crapper when too much is applied like a crutch (aka OEM tune).

My Opinion FWIW...

Mr. P.

My understanding is that you have to zero out the shift time tables when running a shift kit.

Not necessarily, a lot of guys bring them down to the 0.2 to 0.3 sec range; I'm not sure if that's in vogue now. If you zero the adaptives table the PCM (TCM) will just disable/ignore that functionality altogether and your shift release and apply speed will be totally dictated by the mechanicals & hydraulics in the tranny so whatever mods you've done in the transmission have not only got to be "right" but they've got to be coordinated well. Example, a lot of guys install the Transgo kit but as they are not into the case they do not install the improved exhausting mods, so the apply is sped up (mechanically) but the release is still a bit sluggish and if extreme you can have gear bind during the shift window, result of course is premature clutch wear - that's just one example. Finding a 4L60 guy that really knows his stuff is haaaaard, I'm still looking myself but think I've finally found someone that can help me, I've got my fingers crossed...

Mr. P.

Oh, ok, the shift times can be low non-zero and still work with the shift kit... cool... :cheers:

That is what I was hoping to do. Just lower my numbers but the tuner had told me that the built tranny would be in conflict with the tune.

The tranny is fully built with shift kit, servos, clutches etc. and has been modified with more line pressure than stock. It is a level 5 built to handle 550 RWHP in a Silverado.

I will zero out D0801 (tq reduction) and lower D1108 (shift times) to see what happens.

When I had my RPM trans installed Rodney told me not to 0 and to return all pressures, PW etc to stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jfpilla

When I had my RPM trans installed Rodney told me not to 0 and to return all pressures, PW etc to stock.

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Hey Joe,

Did your trans guy say if you can set the desired shift times (to say 0.2 s)...?

Yes I agree with the pressure/PW tables to stock, since the shift kit was engineered around a stock calibrated trans.

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecar

Hey Joe,

Did your trans guy say if you can set the desired shift times (to say 0.2 s)...?

Yes I agree with the pressure/PW tables to stock, since the shift kit was engineered around a stock calibrated trans.

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

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Adaptive shift learning will be in conflict with the shift kit unless extensive testing is done to find the shift timing values that the PCM "likes" at various torque input levels with stock base pressures.

I see, so then just leave the shift times stock also. Thanks Justin. :cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecar

I see, so then just leave the shift times stock also. Thanks Justin. :cheers:

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Leaving them stock will be in conflict as well, as the transmission will attempt to shift significantly faster than the computer desires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dc_justin

Adaptive shift learning will be in conflict with the shift kit unless extensive testing is done to find the shift timing values that the PCM "likes" at various torque input levels with stock base pressures.

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Yes! :thankyou2:

Yes... :doh:shift learning gets in the way... how do we find what shift times the PCM likes...?

How do we balance shift times, shift pressure, and shift torque reduction...?

Also, how would shift learning be disabled...?

(I have reason to believe that SD mode disables shift learning/adaption).

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecar

Yes... :doh:shift learning gets in the way... how do we find what shift times the PCM likes...?

How do we balance shift times, shift pressure, and shift torque reduction...?

Also, how would shift learning be disabled...?

(I have reason to believe that SD mode disables shift learning/adaption).

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

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Well, from the instruction of various transmission builders and shift kit manufacturers that specify that the base pressures should be returned to stock, we have to assume that the desired shift times are those that occur with stock base pressures and the shift kit installed. What you could do would be to disable adaptive shift learning (set = 0), then log the last 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 shift times and map against delivered engine torque. Set the adaptive shift times to the values generated there and it's function would then be as intended again: to maintain proper line pressures to shift appropriately as transmission components wear.

to maintain proper line pressures to shift appropriately as transmission components wear.

Justin,
Do you think some of ushttp://forum.efilive.com/images/icons/icon11.gif have had trannys fail early because we 0'd?
Joe

Hey guys, Finally found a post to reflect my issues, I had a built 4L60E plus tuned presures/shift times etc however it still killed 3rd clutch pack (centrifugal apply issue) it always felt as though the car was stopping/dieing when hitting third gear, at the time not knowing 3rd was try to come on and 2nd not releasing plus as mentioned earlier in this thread the tune has AFM programed into it (1,2,4 gear enabled; 3rd disabled) The Fuel DFCO/CFCO speed threshold entry delay figures are way higher in 3rd as well in both able/disable: (1st is able:35 disable: 20. 2nd is able: 40 disable:35) i think this will nose the engine tune over to???
We have now built another box using Transgo HD2 kit, didn't fit complete kit only 3rd components, boster valve, drilled apply holes and also 2nd release mods.
My question is should i return to the original trans settings (Stock pressure/shift times etc)? And what about the Fuel DFCO/CFCO and AFM settings, i know the box should handle full engine power now where should these setting be at?

thanks.

Trans tables:
- set shift time tables to 0.2 s all across;
- set shift pressure tables so that they ramp up from zero and hit 96 psi at ~300 ftlb;
- set shift torque reduction tables to control the shift feel;

take some logs, look at shift times, if they don't match 0.2 s then adjust the shift time tables until the actual shift times are 0.2 s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecar

Trans tables:
- set shift time tables to 0.2 s all across;
- set shift pressure tables so that they ramp up from zero and hit 96 psi at ~300 ftlb;
- set shift torque reduction tables to control the shift feel;

take some logs, look at shift times, if they don't match 0.2 s then adjust the shift time tables until the actual shift times are 0.2 s.

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Thanks Jo, setting shift pressures 0-96psi does this still apply if i have wound the shift solenoid in 1/4 turn?
Does the pressure remain at 96psi after 300ftlb?

I have some work to do, mines in Nm!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VZThunder

Thanks Jo, setting shift pressures 0-96psi does this still apply if i have wound the shift solenoid in 1/4 turn?
Does the pressure remain at 96psi after 300ftlb?

I have some work to do, mines in Nm!!

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No, winding in the calibration screw on the end of the pressure control solenoid increases the pressure that it regulates to (i.e. max pressure is now above 96 psi).

On the pressure table, yes, it flatlines at 96 psi above 300 ftlb (96 psi being the max pressure that a calibrated PCS regulates to).

In the tunetool, go Edit->Calibration Display Units (or something similar), then for each of the columns titled Data, Row, Column, you can click on the title to sort on that column, highlight groups of like units, go rightclick and chose Data/Row/Col and select Imperial or Metric... when done click OK and restart tunetool.

I use Imperial for any oil/fluid pressure, and Metric for manifold pressure/vacuum.

Ok i've had a good play things are better.
1-2 shift time set at .2, pressure lower than recommended. shift is very firm/fast feels good.
3-4 i've speed the s/t up then raised the pressure table as request. yet still it feels slow/not firm/nothing like 1-2..
Where else should i be look, no torque reduction in trans. could it be in the engine tune??

For the 3->4 shift, raise pressure more... post pic of your 3->4 shift pressure.

+1 ...

3>4 shift pressure can be a horizontal line, if need be - 96 PSI in all cells.


Regards,
Taz

Thanks for the reply, sorry i meant 2-3 shift.
hopefully i've uploaded the file rite?

Attachment 13891

Try increasing pressure for the 2->3 shift.

Also check the following:
- is your VE table correct (make sure it is not scaled low for any reason).
- check line pressure by attaching gauge to line tap on LHS of case, observe while driving.

What 2nd servo piston do you have...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joecar

Try increasing pressure for the 2->3 shift.

Also check the following:
- is your VE table correct (make sure it is not scaled low for any reason).
- check line pressure by attaching gauge to line tap on LHS of case, observe while driving.

What 2nd servo piston do you have...?

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Can i send you my Tune link (Maybe via Email) to over look my tune/table??

Using a aftermarket servo maybe a Vet type/large Alloy, not 100% sure deff not standard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VZThunder

Can i send you my Tune link (Maybe via Email) to over look my tune/table??

Using a aftermarket servo maybe a Vet type/large Alloy, not 100% sure deff not standard.

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You can pm me your email address, and I'll reply to that.

Hopefully you have recieved my email.

Hello Matt,

Received your PM - can't respond via PM as I believe this feature isn't active until you have made at least 10 posts in the Forum. Post your tune in this thread, so that myself and others can review it, and perhaps generate a solution.


Regards,
Taz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VZThunder

Hopefully you have recieved my email.

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I received it and I'll be looking at it over the next day...

I'm back... Opening a dead thread again!!Attachment 14618
I've had a mechanical pressure cage on the trans, every gear pressure is around 300psi, strange thing is when reving out in 2nd and near selecting 3rd pressure drops momentarily - selects - then pressures back up and off we go... huge delay. It has heaps of DFCO settings for 3rd would this delay the shift, nill torque manage in any gear?
Hope my upload worked ok..

Another strange thing is i use to upload my trans tune to the ECU E38, now when i make a change / save and try to upload it keeps defaulting to the trans T42 ecu.... why? Once i manage to save the engine tune i'll post that too... need to remember how to do it don't play enough!
Thanks!