Is the 411 PCM upgrade worth it for only basic mods

New member here. I have read thru some of the forums and i can see that the swap to the 411 PCM is a no brainier when major upgrades are planned, but is the swap worth the effort when only basic modifications are planned? I do see some advantage to having the dual spark maps if they are set right, but i am not interested in valet mode, increasing the rev limiter, etc. To be specific, I have a year 2000 GMC with a 454 and i am planning to add long tube headers and high flow exhaust, RV Cam, a slight compression increase from 9:1 up to 9.5:1 to stay 91 octane friendly, egr delete, and ditching my automatic transmission for a 5spd. I will not be doing any further modifications in the future. At most, after my mail order tune is up and running, i may play around with the program a bit to try and dial it in a little closer. I feel very comfortable swapping over to the 411, just don't want to go thru the effort unless i am going to gain something from it. Thanks

I'd say with anything more than an intake and exhaust, a 0411 upgrade would be worth it. You wont "gain" any power from the PCM swap, but you will gain the ability to refine it a bit better. Run an 02 Express Van OS and seg swap a manual tune in.

Thanks for the realistic input. I have not yet had a chance to use EFI Live on either PCM, but i do have two 454s (98-00) and a Suburban with the 6.0L, so i will see how EFI live works on a newer PCM. I am mainly interested in the differences with regards to "refining it a bit better". Would i have to be in edit mode to see the differences between the two platforms? (Would i have to burn up a license on my 2000 454 to see what the software can do with it?).

You can read/edit/save tunes plus datalog/scan/clear codes for free. The first time you flash a controller, that's when you have to license it. I've pulled tunes off friend's cars to build a repository and never license the controller.

The blackbox PCM is just older and not as powerful plus much more limited in the parameters available. For example, the 1 spark table (there are 2 in the LS1B PCM) is a 19x16 table. The LS1B is 25x29 and there are 2 (high and low). The breakpoints are smaller and allow for different spark values every 200rpm for the LS1B vs 400 for the blackbox.

I dont know if you can segment swap a blackbox PCM from an automatic to a manual transmission which might be another issue if you're putting a 5spd behind it.

The blackbox PCM has entered end of life, so if there is an issue, it will not be fixed.

Download V7.5 software from the main EFILive.com homepage and then download these tunes to compare. Don't worry about the displacement differences, that's easy to change. More importantly, the first is a blackbox PCM and the other 2 are LS1B 512kb PCMs. You will need to use one of them as your base tune for the swap so the PCM knows how to run a BBC. (Links are from the tune repository DropBox)

2000 C3500 7.4L Stock tune: 2000+Chevrolet+C3500+Truck+Automatic+L19+7.4+Litre +(16265175).tun

2002 Express Van Stock tune: 2002+Chevrolet+Express+Van+Automatic+L31+5.7+Litre +(PCM+12212156).tun

2002 Silverado 8.1L Stock tune: 2002+Chevrolet+Silverado+Truck+Automatic+L18+8.1+L itre+(12216125).tun

I wasn't too sure where to start, but you have given me exactly what i was looking for. I will download the files and take a look at the differences. I can see it will likely only take one or two key parameters to make the switch worth the effort. I will also take a little closer look at the auto to 5spd swap. Thanks again for the info!

In addition to what Erik said...


the 0411 PCM opens up doors (if you weren't planning it, you now have option...)...

for example, it can run various custom OS's, it can run swapped transmission segment...

for example, COS5/02020005 (based on OS 12212156) can run boost, TP VE, and 4L80E.

Not too mention that some of the OS's that run on the 0411 have the transient pulse injector tables needed for large injectors defined externally (as cax extensions).


Of course, you don't need to plan to go that way.

I have looked thru 454 and 8.1L files and i can see there is a lot more going on with the 411. I have to say I am a little concerned that the upgrade may complicate my system a little as it looks like there may simply be a lot more control going on with the 411? I am saying this because as of up until now my computer has always been my enemy, keeping me from removing my EGR, changing thermostat temps, etc. You know, the less my PCM did, the better. This will be a game changer for me to be able to see what my PCM is doing and have control over it. Very exciting stuff!

I am planning to have a shop help me with my tune, so i won’t have to figuring out how to make this thing run on my own after i change the cam and swap transmissions. But I will likely want to play around with a few small things which i am sure the 411 will do better. I would like to wire a wide band o2 sensor into an unused 0-5V input and try to read it from my PCM with an obd2 scan gauge or obd2 scan app, view my VE tables as a percentage of cylinder fill, install a second auxiliary fan for when i am pulling my 5th wheel, etc. etc.

I am thinking i will likely add the 411 to my small list of upgrades. I am assuming i can just start with the 8.1L file with the stock OS and go from there as i can always upgrade to a custom operating system at a later date. Or should i just start with a custom OS? Definitely still figuring this stuff out. Thanks again for the info guys.

The custom OS upgrade is pretty quick to do if you want, just run one from day 1 and turn off the COS features and run it like the original GM OS did. Then, later on just enable the COS features if you want. What of the COS feature(s) did you want to use?

You need to do the segment swap for manual first, then COS upgrade. Not tough to do, there is an order that has to be followed though.

I think you'll be happier with the 0411 upgrade, it give you more flexibility down the road as well.

The 8.1L tune is DBW, I forgot the BBC with LS1 PCM were DBW where the regular LSx engines were DBC until 03 (Escalades in 02). Also the 8.1 has a different firing order than the 7.4, but the 7.4 has the same firing order as the LS and SBC. I'm going to need someone who has done this swap to chime in here, you might be better off using an Express van 5.7 SBC as the base file instead of the 8.1L.

Thanks, i will likely do the work to swap to the 411. I will work with my tuner who has experience with 98-00 BBC and likely go with whatever he suggests. At this point i don't think i am really interested in anything a COS upgrade has to offer, but i figured it may add some flexibility in the future? I will have to do some more reading thru these forums. After i do the 411 PCM, cam, headers and transmission, i likely wont be doing much else other than looking thru the maps for a little extra performance here or there and playing with the PCM inputs/outputs to control gauges/fans etc.

Sounds good, then a stock OS should be just fine for you. Good to hear your tuner has more knowledge about this swap, I can help with the mixing/matching/mashing of tunes and how to get your base tune setup, but I havent done anything with a BBC before just LSx stuff with the 0411.

Sounds great, stock OS it will be, thanks again for the help, you have saved me a bunch of time as i wanted to have this stuff roughly sorted out before i started pulling my truck apart.

( I don't know why the forum software was marking your 3 posts 'Moderated' (I didn't see any questionable url's) which makes them invisble... I saw that you posted the same material after that so I deleted those 3 moderated posts
)

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Originally Posted by ScarabEpic22

You can read/edit/save tunes plus datalog/scan/clear codes for free. The first time you flash a controller, that's when you have to license it. I've pulled tunes off friend's cars to build a repository and never license the controller.

The blackbox PCM is just older and not as powerful plus much more limited in the parameters available. For example, the 1 spark table (there are 2 in the LS1B PCM) is a 19x16 table. The LS1B is 25x29 and there are 2 (high and low). The breakpoints are smaller and allow for different spark values every 200rpm for the LS1B vs 400 for the blackbox.

I dont know if you can segment swap a blackbox PCM from an automatic to a manual transmission which might be another issue if you're putting a 5spd behind it.

The blackbox PCM has entered end of life, so if there is an issue, it will not be fixed.

Download V7.5 software from the main EFILive.com homepage and then download these tunes to compare. Don't worry about the displacement differences, that's easy to change. More importantly, the first is a blackbox PCM and the other 2 are LS1B 512kb PCMs. You will need to use one of them as your base tune for the swap so the PCM knows how to run a BBC. (Links are from the tune repository DropBox)

2000 C3500 7.4L Stock tune: 2000+Chevrolet+C3500+Truck+Automatic+L19+7.4+Litre +(16265175).tun

2002 Express Van Stock tune: 2002+Chevrolet+Express+Van+Automatic+L31+5.7+Litre +(PCM+12212156).tun

2002 Silverado 8.1L Stock tune: 2002+Chevrolet+Silverado+Truck+Automatic+L18+8.1+L itre+(12216125).tun

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the drop box is now all empty. Did someone else take up the tune repository?

Am interested in the 2002 Express Van Stock tune with L31 5.7 and 4l60e trans: