F.A.S.T. Dual Wideband Log Help

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June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

F.A.S.T. Dual Wideband Log Help

Hey Guys - I'm typically a lurker and usually find what I need through the search but I'm stumped on setting up my wideband for EFI Live to read properly and it's hindering me from performing Auto VE.:wallbash:

Vehicle = 89 Corvette w/ EFI Connection 24x System (2001 Camaro PCM) installed on SBC

Wideband = F.A.S.T. Gasoline Air/Fuel Meter ~ Dual Sensor SKU: 170402

Problem = F.A.S.T. Display & EFI Live Log do not match AFR Reading. Typically around 0.8 to 1.2 off at any given time.

I have tried using the supported PID already in the system as well as what I have found from the searches here on the forum and I remain off by this factor. I cannot tell if the difference is constant. When I looked into the details of the supported PID within EFI Live, it shows to actually be the same calculation as what I found which at least tells me that I'm consistently wrong... for whatever that's worth!

Slot Definitions:

*CLC-00-004
"AFR" 10.0 20.0 .2 "({CALC.AFR_FAST1.AFR}+{CALC.AFR_FAST2.AFR})/2"

*CLC-00-005
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.Fast_AFR_AVG_B1&B2}/{GM.AFR}"

*CLC-00-006
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}*2.78+9.6"

*CLC-00-007
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_FAST1.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"

*CLC-00-008
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}*2.78+9.6"

*CLC-00-009
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_FAST2.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"

When I power on the F.A.S.T. system, I am selecting High Resolution Output.

Question = For those of you using this system and who are getting the correct output signal; what am I doing wrong??? Can you describe what you're doing/selecting to get this system to work with EFI Live?

Thanks,
Daniel
June 13th, 2016
Jetmech442

Hey. I'm not using that system,(just a single wb) but I have some thoughts.

1)what fuel are you using ? It looks like clc-00-006 and 008 have a fuel calibration built in for afr. You might just need to alter the offset of 9.6 to get it to match up.
2)things like this could probly be eliminated if you used the ".Lambda" pids since those account for the girl your using.
3) not sure about the Fast wb02s, but it is much much cleaner and simpler to use serial communications instead of the ext ad1 method.

Edit :BTW, seriously impressed you already got into the pid.Txt file...
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
June 13th, 2016
joecar

It would be better if you did not edit sae_generic.txt (because when you update the V7 software it will be overwritten with a new one)...

instead copy/paste/edit those equations/CLC's into the file calc_pids.txt (we can show you how).

For High Resolution mode, I don't see anything in their pdf that shows what the voltage:afr or voltage:lambda relationship is...?
June 13th, 2016
joecar

How have you got the dual WB outputs connected to FSV2...?

Show me a diagram (including grounds)...
June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

Jetmech442,
You're right on point 1. When you power up the meter, you have to go through a setup series where it asks if you're running Gasoline or Alcohol. I am selecting Gasoline. (I run 93 octane pump gas ~the e10 crap~ thank you very much, Uncle Sugar...)

Then it asks you if you want to utilize the analog output mode. I am selecting yes.

Next, it asks if you want simple mode (meter takes the output voltage and multiplies it by 10 to calculate the air/fuel ratio). I am selecting no.

The next question asks if you want High Resolution Mode (meter provides a 0 - 4.096 V output signal) I am selecting yes. During this step, it actually displays on the meter that the output is equal to (Voltage*2.78)+9.6, so I don't think adjusting the constant is the answer; but I could be wrong...

Ya, a serial com would be better... but this is what I've got:doh2: I'm hoping to get it going "good enough" as I don't have aspirations of tuning too often. But I make too many modifications to the car (for no reason typically) and don't want to have a line of credit at the dyno house...
June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

1 Attachment(s)

joecar - Yes, I actually have those PIDs inserted in calc_pids. I only opened sae_generic because it seemed like the original numbers that were posted on the txt file I found on this forum were clashing with the sae numbers. I believe it was 985, 986 or somewhere in there. It was causing the PID selection to not show up in the correct parameter reference but when I changed the numbers to 00#, it worked.

see attachment for wiring setup
Attachment 19888
June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

Does anyone think it would help to change the High Unit on the Voltage to 4.096 instead of 5, since that's what the F.A.S.T. paperwork says the actual output of the meter is (not 5)???
June 13th, 2016
joecar

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

...
The next question asks if you want High Resolution Mode (meter provides a 0 - 4.096 V output signal) I am selecting yes. During this step, it actually displays on the meter that the output is equal to (Voltage*2.78)+9.6, so I don't think adjusting the constant is the answer; but I could be wrong...
...

OK, this is what I was looking for.

When stoich is commanded, what AFR does the FAST display say (does it say 14.7...?)...?
June 13th, 2016
joecar

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

joecar - Yes, I actually have those PIDs inserted in calc_pids. I only opened sae_generic because it seemed like the original numbers that were posted on the txt file I found on this forum were clashing with the sae numbers. I believe it was 985, 986 or somewhere in there. It was causing the PID selection to not show up in the correct parameter reference but when I changed the numbers to 00#, it worked.

Hmm, odd, I can't replicate this problem... which V7 build version do you have (do Help->About)...?

Quote:

see attachment for wiring setup
Attachment 19888

Ok, so those ground wires are connected ONLY to AD1- and AD2- and to no other grounds, correct...?
June 13th, 2016
joecar

With two widebands, I've got my calc pids setup to choose the leanest wideband dynamically (on the fly)... I think you could use this.

What PCM are you using...?

Post your calc_pids.txt file here.
June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

Hmm, odd, I can't replicate this problem... which V7 build version do you have (do Help->About)...? V7.5.7 (Build 299)
Ok, so those ground wires are connected ONLY to AD1- and AD2- and to no other grounds, correct...?

Correct
June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

With two widebands, I've got my calc pids setup to choose the leanest wideband dynamically (on the fly)... I think you could use this.

What PCM are you using...?

Post your calc_pids.txt file here.

PCM = 12200411 set up as 2001 Camaro w/manual trans

Attachment 19889
June 13th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

OK, this is what I was looking for.

When stoich is commanded, what AFR does the FAST display say (does it say 14.7...?)...?

When you say "stoich is commanded", do you mean when the PCM is commanding 14.7, does the FAST display read 14.7? The answer is no, but the car is running really rich. So at warm idle, the PCM is commanding 14.63 and the FAST display is around 12.5. There is absolutely nothing steady about the readings either. They're moving so fast on the decimal side, I can barely tell what the range is. Typically it looks like it bounces between 12.2 and 12.8.

Just as a backup I've been plotting my onboard O2 sensors as well and they're usually pegged around 900 except when the PCM commands something in the 15 or 16 range, such as during deceleration.
June 14th, 2016
voda1

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

Jetmech442,

Then it asks you if you want to utilize the analog output mode. I am selecting yes.

Why use analog when FlashScan accepts digital with fewer issues?
June 14th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by voda1

Why use analog when FlashScan accepts digital with fewer issues?

So, how do I get the FAST dual WB to output a digital signal for the V2?
June 14th, 2016
joecar

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

PCM = 12200411 set up as 2001 Camaro w/manual trans

Attachment 19889

( are you using the VE pid...? we have a much better VE pid now )
June 14th, 2016
joecar

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

When you say "stoich is commanded", do you mean when the PCM is commanding 14.7, does the FAST display read 14.7? The answer is no, but the car is running really rich. So at warm idle, the PCM is commanding 14.63 and the FAST display is around 12.5. There is absolutely nothing steady about the readings either. They're moving so fast on the decimal side, I can barely tell what the range is. Typically it looks like it bounces between 12.2 and 12.8.

Just as a backup I've been plotting my onboard O2 sensors as well and they're usually pegged around 900 except when the PCM commands something in the 15 or 16 range, such as during deceleration.

What AFR does the FAST display when in Closed Loop...?

( I'm trying to find out what stoich AFR is assumed by the FAST )
June 14th, 2016
joecar

Is FAST listed in the V8 S&T Serial Device Wideband Types...?
June 15th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

( are you using the VE pid...? we have a much better VE pid now )

I guess not. I built the PID from the tutorial. When I go through the list of PIDs, it seems like they're all specific for WB brand, so that's why I made my own. Which PID are you referring to as the VE PID?
June 15th, 2016
joecar

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

I guess not. I built the PID from the tutorial. When I go through the list of PIDs, it seems like they're all specific for WB brand, so that's why I made my own. Which PID are you referring to as the VE PID?

This one:

Quote:

*CLC-00-003
% 0.0 100.0 .2 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*3445. 2/(displacement()*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTF TBEN}"
VE 0.0 3.0 .4 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*1 5/({SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTFTBEN}"

has been superceded, see this calc_pids.txt from the Calc.VET thread, post #1.
June 15th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

What AFR does the FAST display when in Closed Loop...?

( I'm trying to find out what stoich AFR is assumed by the FAST )

Volts Bits Lambda AFR
0 0 0.65 9.555
0.2744 56 0.7 10.29
0.5488 112 0.755 11.098
0.8232 168 0.805 11.833
1.0976 224 0.86 12.642
1.372 280 0.91 13.377
1.6464 336 0.96 14.112
1.9208 392 1.015 14.92
2.1756 444 1.065 15.655
2.45 500 1.12 16.464
2.7244 556 1.17 17.199
2.9988 612 1.22 17.934
3.2732 668 1.275 18.742
3.5476 724 1.325 19.477
3.822 780 1.38 20.286
4.0964 836 1.43 21.021
June 15th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

Is FAST listed in the V8 S&T Serial Device Wideband Types...?

Not that I can see
June 15th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

This one:

has been superceded, see this calc_pids.txt from the Calc.VET thread, post #1.

Ok, I found that earlier today dated 2011 which is newer than what's posted on the EFI tutorials page, so I was going to go through that one today.
June 15th, 2016
spedracr93

Quote:

Originally Posted by spedracr93

Volts Bits Lambda AFR
0 0 0.65 9.555
0.2744 56 0.7 10.29
0.5488 112 0.755 11.098
0.8232 168 0.805 11.833
1.0976 224 0.86 12.642
1.372 280 0.91 13.377
1.6464 336 0.96 14.112
1.9208 392 1.015 14.92
2.1756 444 1.065 15.655
2.45 500 1.12 16.464
2.7244 556 1.17 17.199
2.9988 612 1.22 17.934
3.2732 668 1.275 18.742
3.5476 724 1.325 19.477
3.822 780 1.38 20.286
4.0964 836 1.43 21.021

Ahhh... now I understand what you were asking. From this table, I'm assuming Lambda 1.000 = 14.7 AFR
June 15th, 2016
joecar

Yes, we want to use Lambda to avoid all the different assumed values for stoich.