Check out my post in this thread, you must be getting the voltage also. Search for your Wideband though, should be something like PLX1
Cheers,
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Check out my post in this thread, you must be getting the voltage also. Search for your Wideband though, should be something like PLX1
Cheers,
Quick and easy answer, yes LTFT's get reset.Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
Cheers,
Ross
The first map image I posted is hosed, some how. Applying the TPS/ECT filter is ok but when I "hide empty cells" where a cell is considered empty if the count is less than 50 results in averages that are much less than the minimum for that cell. Anyway, here's the map using the same data if I don't hide empty cells: Hopefully it's obvious to someone else what I'm doing wrong...
There was a bug in a particular version (don't recall which off hand) that basically has a mathematical error in the hidden cell portion of the MAPs.
From memory it hides 'n' cells (set as the number of cells to hide) from all cells still displayed. Then it does the average over the correct cell count and therefore the value is lower than you would expect.
The issue is definitely resolved in the latest pre-release version, but I'm not sure which versions have been made publicly available.
From what I gather the 7.2.3 version is due out any time now.
Before I started today I upgrade to the June 9th pre-release of V7.2.3.
Well that must be the version then (it's been a while)...
I guess it is going to take an Excel spreadsheet until 7.2.3 is made generally available :(
Not much conciliation but 7.2.3 will be worth the wait.
correct. there are some cell's you are never going to hit, like 105 kPa 8000 rpm, or 15 kPa 400 RPM). The value's in these cells can safely be off by 15%.Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
Trims are reset when you reflash, and you are in open loop during most of this autotuning predure.Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
How does this tune work for stock, mild mods, 01 TA?
Do you leave the Maf unpluged?
I have the things needed to do this but don't know if it's for me.
Should work fine. If all you have are a few bolt on's, lid, headers, you can probably get away with not scaling your VE table up. To be safe, I would scale it up at least 5% to make sure you don't run too lean.Quote:
Originally Posted by ace68
Only if you intend to stay in SDQuote:
Originally Posted by ace68
Save a copy of your original tune, as stated in the write up, and if you find it's not for you, you can always flash the original tune back in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ace68
I just used auto tune this weekend all i have to say is sweeeettt 8)
That is the version that has the bug. I went through the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
Bill
FWIW - for the time being, I have be copying my data to excel, then manually deleted the cells that have less than a 50 countQuote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS
What if you go through all this and your trims are still positive in some cells? Should you reduce the cells in the VE table that are + in the trims map?
Bill
Depending the atmospheric conditions you will find you go +/- over time , if its only a small amount dont stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS
Did you do your ben factors with the same AFR's you are currently running , I found if you did it with a flat 13:1 everywhere it was not quite right when going back to 14.63 , also you may find your factory O2's are not dead on the same 14.63 as your wideband I know mine isnt , there is about a 0.5 afr difference - they are old o2's though.
Having a bit of a problem applying this. I copied my original tune and changed all the prescribed parameters and tables as outlined in the step-by-step. Triple checked all the settings to be sure, saved it and uploaded it to the PCM. Removed power from the ignition one minute. Also, I set the PIDs as instructed in the scan tool. I did not unplug the MAF connector since I had read several posts here and on LS1tech on disabling C2901 MAF High Frequency Fail by setting it to 0.
When I started the car (stone cold), it ran very poorly - idle was suddenly low and stumbling, the engine barely running. The PCM was throwing reduced engine power and TC/AH codes and a few others. I shut it off quickly. I uploaded my original tune and the car returned to it's normal smooth operation with no codes whatsoever.
This is on an '02 Corvette M6 with the following mods:
* S2 H/C * VaraRam * FLP Headers * Ti Catback *
* DTE 4.10 * Harland Sharp * RollMaster * QTP Cutouts *
* ASP UD Pulley * FMS 30 lb. inj. *
I'm running ver. 7.2.2 with a PLX WB. My original tune was a somewhat questionable tune by the tuner I bought my h/c from along with a local dyno tune. Car runs fine normally although I'm a bit rich at the moment.
Is it possible my MAF was still enabled and conflicting with the open loop changes? I'm trying to avoid modifying my MAF connector just to retain my IAT.
Insights?
Did you start with a stock tune or the tune a tuner did? Chances are, to get yourself going you'll need to find a stock tune and do the whole 60%, 80%, 90% to the VE table to get up and running. If you have different injectors, you'll need to change the IFR table as well. Then follow the directions from the step-by-step. I haven't had to do this yet, but I'm sure someone here can fill you in on which parts to scale.
As SSpdDmon posted, you will need to get your IFR table scaled correctly before starting the SD tuning process. A lot of "pro" tuners manipulate the IFR table to try and get LTFT's in line. This method is a band aid. Before you rescale you injector table, download a stock tune for your year and copy the IFR table to the tune you plan to use. Then scale the stock IFR table to match your new injectors. You can find a lot of info on proper injector scaling on www.ls1tech.com
Being an '02 Vette, I would assume you have a 5 wire MAF (85mm). This poses a unique challenge to unplug the MAF and still have the IAT sensor input. A few post up in this thread is some information that should help with this. Unplugging the MAF is the only 100% sure way to make sure the MAF is not intefering with your tuning.
Having the car run like poop when you first get into OLSD is normal (from my experience). I had one of those "professional" tunes in my car to start with. More than likely you are running pig rich with this initial tune.
One thing that would help is for you to apply the OLSD tune, start the car and let come up to full operating temp, then log about 5 minutes worth of idle. Apply the BEN factor from idling to your tune and reflash. This should help get your idle stable and then you can start working on the rest of the tune.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I actually still have the stock IFR table intact as my tuner never touched that table. He only did the initial tune which was pretty close considering and the dyno tune got my WOT AFR at 12.8. I did a comparison between my table and a stock 2001 LS1 vette and a stock 2002 Z06. All cells were identical. I was going to scale the IFR table to account for the SVO injectors but they shoved me from very negative to moderately positive so I thought I could tune it the rest of the way without scaling. If I scaled them the full, say, 23% or so, I'm afraid I would go too lean again. Should I?
I installed the SVO 30 lb. injectors a while ago because the Vararam had me running dangerously lean and the IDC was spiking in the 90's at times. That brought my LTFT's into a comfortable mild-rich condition, highest + values 7 and 8. I was thinking of using the OLSD tune to get the VE table set up and then returning to CL with the MAF reconnected and then scaling the MAF. A buddy of mine has done the OLSD process several times using HPT and Excel (PITA w/ ver. 1.7). I guess I should ask him to remind me how I told him to disconnect the MAF temporarily last year. Also, he scaled his IFR table before tuning after he installed a set of 30 lb. SVO's I sold him.
I'll try your suggestions next after doing that.
Patches - reply sent to CF pm.
Here's the pm (just as easy to put it here, also)
It doesn't sound like it's falling off the MAF - i.e. it's not going into SD. Are you getting a MIL?
There is a fail limit value that was "12" with my car. Set it to "1".
Here's my post to the Autotune EFILive thread:
Quote:
I would set both the MAF High Freqency Fail 1 {C2901} and the MAF High Freqency Fail Limit {C2902} to "1". This insures that it drops into SD at the 1st failure. FWIW.
Let me know how it goes. Good Luck.
Cheers,
joel
OK, thanks, Joel, there's one value I did not change - MAF High Freqency Fail Limit {C2902} to "1".
I'm not getting the MIL because of the disabled P0103, P0102 and P0103 DTC MIL Enablers are set to No MIL per the AutoTune instructions posted here.
I take it you left your MAF connector plugged in in OLSD and it was still disabled with the IAT functional???
Thanks.
Ed
I left the P0103 MIL on... if it's displayed you are in SD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches
My MAF is still plugged in. The IAT is functional and my MAF still reports - but it is in SD. I had the "Reduced Engine Power" until I set the Fail limit to "1".
You will love the throttle response!!
Good Luck!
Cheers,
joel
Great - I will try that tomorrow. Thanks for the tips!
I have updated the document with the fail limit information. FWIW, the custom OS I'm running uses c2903 for that parameter.Quote:
Originally Posted by bink
My OS uses the {C2903} parameter label also. Go figure.
Thanks TAQuickness.[/quote]
This morning I changed the MAF High Freqency Fail Limit {C2903} to 1, uploaded the tune, started the car cold and got the same very rough-running behavior and codes. The car idled at between 500-600 and bucked pretty good. This time I let it continue to run but less than 3 minutes in, it died. While it runs, the throttle has almost no response so I can't try and get the rpm's up to keep it going. I uploaded the original tune and all's well again.
Any ideas? Could it be my drilled TB? Or was the 15% VE bump too much? My idle is normally set at 925.
try scaling your 400, 800, 1200 rows in the VE down by 15%.
What was your WB AFR while you were idling? Better yet, can you email that log to TAQuickness@houston.rr.com?
Just got it to work. It was a combination of scaling the VE table by -15% and the IFR table by +20.3%
It's warming up now so I'm loggong and going for a drive. Sounds great so far.
Thanks.
Regarding the autotune doc; it seems like the screen grab for "Data filters" has an extra "<empty filter item>" that could be removed. Also, the title says "TPS Moves too Fast & Low Coolant Temp" but it seems it would be more accurate to say "TPS Moves too Fast or Low Coolant Temp".
The doc says that after autotuning, LTFTs should be good (-4 to 0) for a closed loop SD tune. Would the same be true for a MAF tune?
What is the procedure for calibrating the wideband? I have a PLX M-300 which does not seem to require hardware calibration. Is there some kind of calibration I need to do with EFIlive?
(In case I haven't mentioned it before, this is all very slick!)
Please email me your screen shots and I will update the doc.Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
If you are running CL w/ MAF, then yes, you will still want your LTFT's in the -4 - 0 rangeQuote:
Originally Posted by leres
WB calibration is vendor specific. Nothing to calibrate on the Flashscan box that I'm aware ofQuote:
Originally Posted by leres
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
Right now I am running Closed Loop SD. I am still logging my BEN and was wondering if I can still use these numbers just like I did when I was AutoTuning? Most of the numbers are around 1.0 but some are not as close probaly because I did not have enough data logged. I only logged about 3 hours of data and tried to hit every cell I could but some were hard to hit.
I was also thinking of just going to Open Loop all the time.
What does everyone think?
Bill
:D
You can definately do this, but I'm not sure what benifiet you would see. While you are in closed loop, the PCM is trimming the fuel based on O2 sensor feed back, so your WB reading will represent the AFR after trimming.Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingSS
I would think you would get a better idea of what's going on by monitoring your LTFT's.
(I PM'ed you Saturday; I made a new screen grab but I don't have your email address...)Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
I understand what the range I'd like my LTFTs to be; my question is if I autotune my VE tables and then go back to closed loop MAF operation, will my LTFTs change? If my goal is to bring my LTFTs into the optimal range, is changing the VE tables the answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
If going back to MAF changes LTFTs by much, I understand the MAF table then needs to be tuned (and leave the VE table to where you just tuned it to).Quote:
Originally Posted by leres
[quote="leres"](I PM'ed you Saturday; I made a new screen grab but I don't have your email address...)Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
I don't have any messages in my box. My email address (TAQuickness@houston.rr.com) is also in the first post of this thread.
Thanks in advance for the screen shots!
Got several iterations of OLSD log/update cycles done. Not as easy as one would think even on the backroads I have the good fortune to live around. Got my BEN factor table looking pretty good although I'm sure it could use a few more iterations. Updated the original file, reverted back to CLSD and started to go for a LTFT logging drive when the skies opened up. :( Oh well, tomorrow's another day. :wink:
Had a couple of issues during the logging sessions. Once, I had apparently copied a few low-count, skewed-value BEN cells to the VE table and the car went into reduced power mode a couple minutes into the drive. A quick upload of the previous tune fixed that.
Also, I started getting a flaring start problem (2500 rpm for 3 sec.) about halfway through the process. That disappeared when I loaded my CL tune in but I'll have to see if it returns on cold starts. The idle tuning sticky mentions adjusting Base Spark in Gear and Base Spark in Park/Neutral so I'll keep that in the wings if it returns.
Patches
From my experience, you will want to get your idle dialed in before attempting to tune the VE table.
Idle is where it all starts ;)
Idle is perfect after reverting back to CLSD so far. My buddy had the same experience with his C5 after SD tuning - his idle smoothed out after VE tuning as well. Go figure. I'm sure I have a good amount of tweaking left but the car is definitely running better.
Once you are back into CL, the PCM will learn the LTFT's that make the idle nice.
What are you trims for FTC 19?
Do we email you for the 8.9.05 updated doc (I can't find the link to it)...?Quote:
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
i have been having a problem with the VE Tuning...
After i dial in the VE... pretty much next to 1.0 in the ben factor, i put back cl and they simply go over the place and all of the sudden at WOT it goes 1 full afr richer 11.2 more or less... is there something to do with the OL Fueling?