Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 89

Thread: resized injectors

  1. #11
    Senior Member pdasterly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    108

    Default

    ???
    1998 Camaro Z28, forged ls2 sts turbo GtsT76, fmic
    1999 Firebird, forged ls1 procharger p1sc ls9 cam fmic
    1981 El Camino, 5.3 LSX carb, msd 6010
    2011 2SS

  2. #12
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Redline Motorsports View Post
    There is a lot more to injector calibrating then changing the IFR table. There are at least a half a dozen parameters that need to be properly calibrated when changing injectors and significantly effect every aspect of tuning.

    What are you going to do about your short pulse adder table now that the stock injector has been bored out? What about the spray pattern that is drastically changed?

    You would have been better off with a factory larger injector with known values then an injector that does not have all the required data.
    He has the stock injectors, re-sized.
    512k RoadRunner Firmware 12.14R
    FlashScan V2 Bootblock V2.07.04 Firmware V2.07.22 EFILive V7.5.7 (Build 191) V8.2.1 (Build 181)
    LC-1 WBO2

    _________________________________________________

  3. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.prick View Post
    He has the stock injectors, re-sized.
    Ok, so you think resizing the original hole size has no effect on the injectors chararcteristics? You one at least have drastically changed the spray pattern which is critical to the injectors flow.

    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  4. #14
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    According to the guy that re-sizes them all that needs to be changed is the IFR table.
    42 bosch modified from 24's

    In the video, the spray patterns are very similar.
    Why would they act differently (besides flow) if they are the same internally? (offsets)
    512k RoadRunner Firmware 12.14R
    FlashScan V2 Bootblock V2.07.04 Firmware V2.07.22 EFILive V7.5.7 (Build 191) V8.2.1 (Build 181)
    LC-1 WBO2

    _________________________________________________

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.prick View Post
    According to the guy that re-sizes them all that needs to be changed is the IFR table.
    42 bosch modified from 24's

    In the video, the spray patterns are very similar.
    Why would they act differently (besides flow) if they are the same internally? (offsets)
    Because the orifice plate has been changed. Injectors are not linear and changing this plate will effect the short pulse effects of the injector.

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  6. #16
    Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Redline Motorsports View Post
    Because the orifice plate has been changed. Injectors are not linear and changing this plate will effect the short pulse effects of the injector.
    If this is the case, All this should be worked out with a auto ve tune ??? I have these and I am running a lm1 so when I install them and change the ifr, I'll report back.
    00 GMC,LQ4, Jarrett Faggart pistons, callies rods, Ebay studs, LS9 gaskets, 317's, KBRacing KIT, PT76/75, treadstone intercooler,Eboost2, dual walbro, FIC 75lb, br7ef, Trutrac, Shaftmasters Shaft, 3.5" DP w/4" magnaflow dumped, turbo blanket, Circle D 3200, Jake's built 4l80w/brake, hydroboost, EFILive v2,Lunati dual springs,222/226 cam, cal-tracs, QA1 front shocks, Street/strip Bogarts,Drum swap, Alky-control,MSD8733 936 HP to the tire DD.

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowrc View Post
    If this is the case, All this should be worked out with a auto ve tune ??? I have these and I am running a lm1 so when I install them and change the ifr, I'll report back.
    The thing that everyone forgets is that the injector value tables in the software are specific to the characteristics of a given injector. There is more then a IFR table that tells the PCM how it needs to control that injector to keep AFR's in line. A few may not need to be altered in this case since it is a stock winding but the way the fuel leaves the injector is an important attribute in the calculation.

    You may need to falsify your VE table or MAF to get the fuel in line but now all you have done is misrepresented the air model of the engine. Tuning is all about being able to tell the PCM EXACTLY how much air is entering the motor at a given condition. If this is done properly, you would be surprised how much fudging is NOT needed with many other tables to make a good running engine. This air modeling takes into consideration that the injector values are correct for that injector.

    I know for a fact that changing the orifice size changes the spray pattern and more importantly the "short pulse" time in ms. from stock. There is a table for that in the software.

    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  8. #18
    Senior Member pdasterly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    108

    Default

    1998 Camaro Z28, forged ls2 sts turbo GtsT76, fmic
    1999 Firebird, forged ls1 procharger p1sc ls9 cam fmic
    1981 El Camino, 5.3 LSX carb, msd 6010
    2011 2SS

  9. #19
    Senior Member pdasterly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    108

    Default

    B4005 in the program??
    1998 Camaro Z28, forged ls2 sts turbo GtsT76, fmic
    1999 Firebird, forged ls1 procharger p1sc ls9 cam fmic
    1981 El Camino, 5.3 LSX carb, msd 6010
    2011 2SS

  10. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Redline Motorsports View Post
    The thing that everyone forgets is that the injector value tables in the software are specific to the characteristics of a given injector. There is more then a IFR table that tells the PCM how it needs to control that injector to keep AFR's in line. A few may not need to be altered in this case since it is a stock winding but the way the fuel leaves the injector is an important attribute in the calculation.

    You may need to falsify your VE table or MAF to get the fuel in line but now all you have done is misrepresented the air model of the engine. Tuning is all about being able to tell the PCM EXACTLY how much air is entering the motor at a given condition. If this is done properly, you would be surprised how much fudging is NOT needed with many other tables to make a good running engine. This air modeling takes into consideration that the injector values are correct for that injector.

    I know for a fact that changing the orifice size changes the spray pattern and more importantly the "short pulse" time in ms. from stock. There is a table for that in the software.

    Howard
    Here's some facts that maybe will help us all understand whats going on. First of all if you take the Bosch 3 injector and take the discharge plate off of all sizes from 24-42 you will find that the injector itself including coil are identical. Meaning If I put the different size injectors on a flow bench without discharge plates, the injectors all flow identical. There is no difference in any of these injectors as a valve. Therefore all Bosch does is make one injector for their EV6 series and puts different size holes in the plate. From a manufacturing standpoint this would be most cost effective for them. What this means to me is that being all the same injector except for color, I can do the same thing. We duplicate the hole diameter in all the different sizes, flow test and match them. To us, this is no different than Bosch doing it at the factory as far as performance etc. Us and many shops have been "modifying" injectors for years. We just happen to market it. I will prepare some videos in the next couple of weeks showing a modified injector flowing next to its original counterpart on the flow bench. This way you will see at various pulse widths the injector flowing in real time. Then make your own decision. Also with custom stuff we can give you an injector that is exactly the flow you need. In other words if you need a 56.5 lb injector at 4 bar I can give you that. I can also make 2 in the same set 58 for the two back cylinders that tend to have higher EGT's than the other 6. There are many shops and turbo kit builders using modified injectors with their kits. You probably have bought some but don't even know it. I also experimented with a few race shops using a modified original injector with out touching anything but the IFR table and slopping the injector the way we want. The result was a few more HP over a aftermarket injector with a tendency to have much better idle characteristics. If any of the shops are on line here your comments are very welcome, good or bad.
    thanks

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Resized Injector calibration feedback
    By hhorton in forum Gen III V8 Specific
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 6th, 2009, 02:59 PM
  2. Resized injectors
    By hquick in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 25th, 2009, 02:16 AM
  3. 96# injectors :(
    By Cablebandit in forum Gen III V8 Specific
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: April 15th, 2007, 09:51 AM
  4. 96 lb/hr injectors
    By thosewhohatedmecreatedme in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 22nd, 2006, 03:57 AM
  5. 96lb/hr injectors can be run like stock injectors with EFILIVE!!
    By nitrorocket in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 24th, 2006, 02:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •