Complexity Remedy

[killerbee]

Just a thought, and courteous suggestion for development.

This (bosch) ECU is proving to be quite overwhelming. The detail that is coming out of revisions, is, without doubt, very "comprehensive", cudos...keep up the effort, it is much appreciated.

However, here is a "new guy" perspective, which i am sure is lost in the back office. I want to point out, from a newb perspective, the shear number of tables is jaw dropping, and so many of them could be considered peripheral.

Here is my suggestion. Is there perhaps a way that the user can opt for 2 different presentations in the GUI? One would be "COMPLETE", the whole enchilada of a zillion tables. The other would be, "BASIC", the essential, less peripheral tables only, probably 10% of the present number.

This would be helpful, not only for the sales to the 06+ newbs, but for us tuners, who would love to "hide" the peripherals from time to time, to save our own sanity.


This is a suggestion, not a put down. I love this product, and the diligent ongoing effort. I will leave it to you.

[VegasDMAX]

Like KB said, this is not a put down and I think the support for EFILive is great!

Personally, I would rather see the available effort go toward a more detailed analysis of what goes on in the Bosch ECM and the operating systems. For example, there seems to be sort of a consensus that if you have an EGR problem, the dealer will reflash your ECM to OS 12632483, and you will get poorer fuel mileage. That was the case with me when I got reflashed from OS 12606128. I know small changes in fuel mileage are hard to nail down, but comparing stock to stock I lost about 2.5 mpg. I have compared the Engine Operation tables entry-by-entry in these OS's and they are identical except for post injection #2 timing. It's tempting to say that is the reason for the poorer mileage, but by zeroing out the post #2 quantity in both OS's I got about 3/4 of an mpg improvement. That still leaves the original difference.

I would hate to see Ross put forth a lot of effort on just my say, and I would hate even more to have him do it and not find anything. Can anybody else chime in on this with similar findings?

[killerbee]

This ECU is still in development, and my suggestion is to help with a quicker understanding of the established basics, using a basic graphic reveal, perhaps even with a logical visual presentational order (foot-->torque-->fuel, etc). The learning curve aspect of this tool is what I consider highly improveable, it simply lacks a logical tree-like appearance. Even the delphi ECU did, but it was less complex at least. This is going to be a subjective issue, and not everyone will share my concern, especially the more experienced.

This truck spends 95% of its time in less than 10% of the tables (apparently). This is the point of this thread. EFILive's product support team should be left unburdened with what GM is implementing, albeit as long as it doesn't help them unlock more of the reverse engineer mystery. IMO

No disrespect intended.

[GMPX]

We can quite easily set the calibrations to Basic , Intermediate or Advanced modes which will only show calibrations in those groups. There is already the option in the software for this.

Michael, as user who understands these engines / computers at an Advanced level if you want to volunteer to write a Basic / Intermediate / Advanced list of calibration numbers I can certainly regen the calibrations to suit.

Cheers,
Ross

[ScarabEpic22]

Ross, where is this calibration hiding setting? I just looked through my P10 and E67 file and cant seem to find it...

Thanks!

[bballer182]

This ECU is still in development, and my suggestion is to help with a quicker understanding of the established basics, using a basic graphic reveal, perhaps even with a logical visual presentational order (foot-->torque-->fuel, etc). The learning curve aspect of this tool is what I consider highly improveable, it simply lacks a logical tree-like appearance. Even the delphi ECU did, but it was less complex at least. This is going to be a subjective issue, and not everyone will share my concern, especially the more experienced.

This truck spends 95% of its time in less than 10% of the tables (apparently). This is the point of this thread. EFILive's product support team should be left unburdened with what GM is implementing, albeit as long as it doesn't help them unlock more of the reverse engineer mystery. IMO

No disrespect intended.

I can kind of see where you are coming from. However, In my opinion I would want nothing less than every single available table shown to me at once. I personally think that the current tree of tables is quite logical and needs only more tables. hahhaha.

just my $0.02

[joecar]

I like to see all tables listed at all times.

$0.02

[OSUBeaver]

Unless you could do some sort of quick user-customizable mask, not showing tables is kind limiting in my opinion Time spent learning the tree structure would be a good investment.

There aren't any tables that are not important, or they wouldn't be there.... it just depends on what you are working on.

[MMLMM]

I can kind of see where you are coming from. However, In my opinion I would want nothing less than every single available table shown to me at once. I personally think that the current tree of tables is quite logical and needs only more tables. hahhaha.

just my $0.02

X2. Overwhelming is more helpful to me

[killerbee]

The shear numbers of tables is entirely too scary for new users, who need a better first experience IMO. This is also a workload for resellers, who spend a lot of time handholding.

Suggest the tables you would want to see listed, say, the ones you would use for a tutorial for doing your first comprehensive tune, that would be helpful. Exluding, for example, IAT timing, what I refer to as the peripherals, which 99% of the users don't know how to use anyway, also tables that have little impact on performance, economy or ride refinement.

This thread may also serve as an education as well. Please limit your beginner list to 12 tables, that will force you to really prioritize. List in the order that logically progresses. I am no authority on this, and I hope to learn something here.