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Thread: Traction Control Tuning

  1. #21
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    thanks for the post, missed the reply for some reason! Will give it a try.

  2. #22
    Lifetime Member wesam's Avatar
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    could any body translate the following parameters for me :
    B6606 ETC TCS Exit Rate
    B6609 Tip-In Torque Reduction
    B6610 Tip-In Torque Reduction Min Speed
    and what is the difference between B6603 TCS Spark Retard and B6604 TCS Spark Retard Fast ??
    any help will be appreciated
    thanks in advance

  3. #23
    Lifetime Member swingtan's Avatar
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    What do you mean by "Translate"?

    When looking at any parameter, there is a "description" field in the top left of the screen that explains what the parameter does. Is this what you wanted?

    Simon

  4. #24
    Lifetime Member wesam's Avatar
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    I read the description but still did not under stand what is the purpose of those parameters.
    i hope if you could help me

  5. #25
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    TCS exit rate = the rate at which retard is ramped out.

    Tip In = the motion of the throttle opening up.

    Retard Fast is used initially before switching to plain Retard.

    The descriptions are not always intuitive... sometimes you have to read a description in conjunction with the neighbouring tables.

  6. #26
    Lifetime Member swingtan's Avatar
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    OK, how's this......

    • B6606 - ETC TCS Exit Rate: Once the traction control system (TCS) is no longer needed, the system will ramp out the TCS retard by this amount every 12.5ms.

      This might be slightly confusing as the PID mentions Electronic Throttle Control ( ETC ) but the parameters are in "spark timing degrees". I haven't tested this one personally, but there are 2 possibilities.
      1. The parameter reduces the TCS spark timing retard by the amount entered every 12.5mS until the retard amount = 0'
      2. The parameter reduces the TCS "throttle blade angle torque reduction" by this amount every 12.5mS until the reduction amount = 0


      My initial thought is that the reference to ETC might be misleading and the value actually works on spark timing. It shouldn't be too had to check this though
    • B6609 - Tip-In Torque Reduction: Used to limit torque increase with throttle tip-in.

      Basically, this will try to drop engine torque as the throttle is opening. It sounds like a "preemptive" action to reduce the possibility of traction loss by slowing the engine power ramp up. The value being set in a "torque" value indicates either...
      1. A "reduction amount". I.E. the PCM will try and reduce engine torque by this amount at throttle tip in and possibly references B6605.
      2. An absolute torque peak figure and would behave like B6611.

      I don't know for sure though my feeling is the later.
    • B6610 - Tip-In Torque Reduction Min Speed: Minimum vehicle speed to allow the throttle tip-in torque reduction function to become active.

      Pretty much what it says, below this speed, B6609 makes no difference. Above this speed it makes a difference. Most probably "tip-in" torque reduction was meant to be used as a "gear box / diff / axle saver" in manual cars.


    As for B6603 and B6604, the descriptions are pretty good for these. B6604 is used when TCS first becomes active to give an initial torque reduction amount. If the TCS remain active ( wheels still spinning ) then the PCM wil transition to B6603 for TCS control. What this allows for is either...

    1. An initial big hit of torque management to stop wheel spin, followed by a lesser amount. For example, if you wanted to keep the power going, the TCS system would initially try and stop spin with a big hit to timing, but if you kept the foot down the TCS system would "back off" and allow more power through. This would be good if you tuned it well and wanted some sort of 'launch control", but would allow you to manually lift off the throttle if you hit a slippery spot.
    2. Start of with only a small amount of TCS torque reduction, and if traction loss remained, ramp up the torque reduction to stop all spin. This would be great for very slippery conditions or where the driver skill or knowledge of the car is limited.


    Just remember, I've mainly worked on the E38, so some of my comments might be a little off....

    Simon.

  7. #27
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    What a brilliant little modification!

    Was at an (uphill!) run tonight at a makeshift sprint course on an old RAF base.

    Traction Control was modified as above and kept on at all times, very minimal spin and no noticable interferance in the car (it lit up the TC warning), it is clearly cutting in but not as far as the driver is aware

    2 rather crap runs mind...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G8MsKbPEWI&fmt=22

  8. #28
    Lifetime Member swingtan's Avatar
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    Good work Stigmund, did you log the runs? I found the best acceleration was achieved when I was getting some constant slippage while ramping up through the gears. It's a good idea to do a few runs with TC both on and off to compare the ramp rate. Then you can see where additional tuning might help.

    Simon.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by swingtan View Post
    Good work Stigmund, did you log the runs? I found the best acceleration was achieved when I was getting some constant slippage while ramping up through the gears. It's a good idea to do a few runs with TC both on and off to compare the ramp rate. Then you can see where additional tuning might help.

    Simon.
    no didnt log tonight but we have a proper strip night coming up. To make life simple can you list the pids you logged with as I am currently using a specific set.

    I used your 1st and 2nd gear settings then for 3rd copied 2nd and added 15 to each cell, then copied 3rd to 4th and add 15 etc

  10. #30
    Lifetime Member swingtan's Avatar
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    For the TC tuning, I just look at....
    • RPM
    • VSS
    • ETC-TP
    • APP
    • SparkAdv


    The 2 throttle PID's help to show when TC is active, as does the commanded spark compared to the high spark table in the tune.

    Then I compare the shape of the RPM and VSS lines between runs to see the effects on acceleration. Obviously, steeper lines in the graph mean faster acceleration.

    Simon.

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