New beginner's Tuning Guide (DVD) from Calibrated Success

[Blacky]

Don't you guys want honest feedback? From an user's perspective the 'legal' angle gets old. I mean honestly, some tutorials talk about disabling catalytic converters..disabling O2 sensors, etc. I mean lets be honest..if that does not bring Civil or U.S. Federal EPA liability, how can just some refinement of the existing tutorials and general tuning concepts be an issue?

Yes, good constructive feedback is great and is highly appreciated.

The emissions issue is a country by country issue. We sell EFILive to countries where the US EPA has no jurisdiction. EFILive is manufactured in a country with zero vehicle emissions laws. There is a very clear warning about emissions compliance in the EFILive software. That is not what I meant when I mentioned legal issues.

EFILive has been hit with multiple lawsuits from variety of sources, mostly from within the tuning industry (there are some crazy people with even crazier ideas in this industry). So far none have had any validity and all of them have been rejected.

If we published a tuning guide, based on previous legal challenges that we've faced, I believe it would open up other avenues of attack and give the crazies even more ammunition to try and take a shot at us. At the very least it would provide a lot of fodder for flame wars on various forums.

However, the legal reason is probably a very small part of why we do not intend to publish a tuning guide. The main reason is and always has been, it is difficult (if not impossible) to do properly and to make it useful to a broad cross section of people. Which is probably why no-one else has done it either.

Let's assume for a moment that someone was prepared to develop a beginner's guide to tuning.

What topics would it cover? Which vehicles? Which engine setups, would it include transmission setups? Diesel or Gas? Open loop or closed loop? Would it cover tuning using a wide band? Which ones? Would it focus on MAF or MAF-less? Dare I mention injectors and flow rates fuel pressures, referenced to manifold vacuum or not? Should it cover how to tune on a dyno, a load cell dyno or not? Or maybe how to tune on the road? Normally aspirated or forced induction? Street legal or off-road? Which country's emissions laws would it adhere to? Would it cover tuning for maximum power or drive-ability or maybe just economy?

It is not a trivial task and forgive me for re-stating the obvious but there are as many ways to tune an engine as there are customers who want to tune. Heck, even our own customers do not tune their vehicles the same way.

If anyone invested the time and effort developing a beginners guide to tuning, some newbies may find it useful but I have no doubt that most everyone else would just sit around bitching about how its not what they expected and that it doesn't cover the exact application that they wanted to tune.

Regards
Paul

[Chevy366]

Sounds to me like if Greg just cut out the Injector Tuning section and made a CD of just that he could flog a few of them . $.2
I agree EFILive 101 (http://www.efi101.com/efilive.html) is a great way to get started because it does teach you the software ins and outs .
So how did anyone tune before Greg's DVD ? Seems a lot of people were successfully tuning before it .

[dfe1]

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So how did anyone tune before Greg's DVD ? Seems a lot of people were successfully tuning before it .

This thread is starting to degenerate into a typical internet piss and moan extravaganza. The complaining will undoubtedly continue until someone offers a complete tuning guide-- with personal instruction-- free.

There's an old saying in aviation-- the reason you get a pilot's license is so you can learn how to fly. EFI tuning is pretty much the same-- if you really want to become proficient, you have to read extensively and/or get formal instruction so you're ready to start some serious learning. You never truly understand a subject until you get some hands-on experience.

There are a lot of excellent EFI tuners around who never had any formal instruction or hand holding. They just did whatever it took to become proficient.

[WeathermanShawn]

Well Paul, when you explain it like that I certainly understand more of your points that I previously did.

One ugly truth about the 'Internet" is that it at times it can be nearly impossible to discern tone and even context when communicating.

It sounds like with many things there is no substitute for hard work and no substitute for putting in the hours to learn.

I agree, maybe this thread has gone too far. You and others make some excellent points. Hopefully we can all remember when we first started learning..for me it is relatively fresh (15 months) and still remains a fascinating hobby.

Cheers to all..

[joecar]

Yes, the written word loses most of its tone... it takes more than just disagreeing to get banned from this forum... I find that the majority of forum members can discuss hot topics in civilized/intelligent manner, there are very few cases of blatant disrespect... I thank you all for being grown-up acting... ...if you are unsure about your tone, just add smilies (upto 6)...

To everyone who has read this thread, have you see the Tutorials section of the forum: forumdisplay.php?f=17

In particular have you seen this thread: showthread.php?t=7866

Most of that information has been put together by forum members...

Ok, granted, some of it is not beginner level, but that just prompts/motivates the beginner to do more research and ask questions in order to understand the concepts...

for example, the AutoVE tutorial contains step-by-step instructions on how to do AVE... there are concepts in there like OL, SD, BEN that the user is unfamiliar with... sure he could still follow the steps, but it would be better if he researched those concepts first... if the AVE tutorial were to explain all the concepts, then it would become a textbook and that would defeat the purpose of a tutorial.

Continuing the CAD analogy from a prior post:
A CAD drawing software package lets you "draw" objects, but a ME degree gives you the knowledge to "design" the said objects... for example, in the attached "drawing" are the bolt holes sufficiently far from the corners to avoid breaking off the corners...? The CAD tool can't give you that knowledge, it simply lets you exercise that knowledge that you have gotten from a course or from experience... and also, consider how many different engineering applications can the drawing software be used for... if the drawing software had to embody that much engineering knowledge it would not fit on anyone's PC.

$0.02

[gmh308]

And to echo what Joecar points out, the ME degree that provides one with the knowledge to constructively utilise CAD based tools for example is based on an enormous amount of foundation learning, knowledge and generally experience.

Internal combustion engines have changed little in principle in their many many decades of use. They draw in an air/fuel mix, compress it, and add spark so it turns over and creates power.

An EFI engine is no different just as a CAD program doesnt really do anything different to what any ME can do with pencil, paper and slide rule (+ cubic time).

It just does it far more effectively and more highly optimised.

The key to leveraging a toolset like EFILive rapidly is understanding the operation and physics of an internal combustion engine, so reading up on theory and operation of an IC engine and general tuning of same is a great start and provides a lot of foundation knowledge and context which accelerates the learning curve once EFILive enables one to delve into that little black box GM calls the PCM or ECM.

And while GM sells these little black boxes as part of cars & trucks, or over the counter as a spare, they dont tell you anything about them.

Greg's book and/or DVD enables the gap to be bridged between black box and effective and productive tuning more quickly if you value your time highly enough.

As for specific ECM tuning manuals, GM makes so many changes to how tables influence engine tuning, even within the same model let alone model to model, that no single manual or tutorial could hope to be accurate in more than one case. Add that to the myriad of different performance applications and combinations, plus different platforms including conversions and retrofits...the mind boggles.

Like with any building, a good foundation is key.

Just like WeathermanShawn says "It sounds like with many things there is no substitute for hard work and no substitute for putting in the hours to learn".

No free lunch in this game.

[ryans1000]

Well I'll throw in my 2 cents that I agree witht he weatherman, there needs to be better write ups and beginner tutorials posted somewhere in one place rather then randomly all over the forums. Writing the software is the hard part, writing guides is the easy part and an easy way to make your product that much more enjoyable and competitive.

As for Greg's cd, yea I think its too pricey for a dvd for a novice but let the man sell what he wants and how he wants, its his business. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I think he would probably sell 10x as much if they were $50 but that is for him to decide.

[2004gmc]

Well I'll throw in my 2 cents that I agree witht he weatherman, there needs to be better write ups and beginner tutorials posted somewhere in one place rather then randomly all over the forums. Writing the software is the hard part, writing guides is the easy part and an easy way to make your product that much more enjoyable and competitive.

As for Greg's cd, yea I think its too pricey for a dvd for a novice but let the man sell what he wants and how he wants, its his business. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I think he would probably sell 10x as much if they were $50 but that is for him to decide.

i have to agree i to wish there was a beginner write up posted. if the dvd was $50 i would get one but as it stands now i cant do the $250us which would be like $300cad by the time it lands here. i think i might sell my v2 since i cant seem to get a better understanding of the efi live tuning as much i dont want to get rid of it but if i cant figure it out its no point of holding on to it since i could use the money for something else

[Bruce Melton]

Let's not forget there is a 188 page PDF users manual with EFILive, plus 10 special topic tutorials. I have never see such good documentation with any software. When you select HELP you get that, and lots more.

Tuning is science project that can be developed into an art form.

Greg's DVD can take you to the next step but one needs to study, really study, not just watch watch the DVD. Between the included EFILive documentation and the BTG DVD there are more than enough resources to make most any motivated student into a competent tuner. The two pieces constitute a college level course for those who will take it on-

I sure do not have time or patience to walk someone through the steps from opening the EFILive box thru tuning all the various GM models. It is overwhelming to just thinking about what it would take. I have #32 of V1 and a V2 and been at it for ~ 10 years but when I start reading the EFILive users manual I am amazed by what I don't know.

IMO,

Bruce

[WeathermanShawn]

It sounds like a case that even if 95% of the customers wanted a combined Beginner's Tutorial Guide to Tuning, it is just not going to happen.

I was a little surprised by the general rebuff of the idea. Sometimes I think smart people just simply forget, or may not know what it is like to work through some of the 'mazes' involved with beginning tuning.

I agree the most challenging area would just be the infinite number of platforms and how you would address all of them. Until then just realize the tuning software is a great tool and you have to learn it by doing, reading, and asking questions.

As to the DVD, the market will eventually determine pricing. Would it be nice to have a more affordable teaching manual..yes..will it happen..if no one bought tuning software because of the difficulty involved, then there would be a more obvious incentive.