Still Knockin'

[tatasta]

more timing can be better for performance, to a point, but not when you're getting KR. and higher isn't better when its causing problems. knock is bad, if you're getting knock at 24*, or 12* (and its spark related) you need to lower the timing, period. detonation will destroy performance and engines, much more than reducing the timing a few degrees. Ideally you want to get on a dyno and tune the spark there. that tune I posted is just kinda preliminary, if you run it and find the KR is totally gone, rock on, then you can experiment, try lowering the AFR, and increasing the spark a little bit at a time, doing logs in between, when you see ANY KR, back off the timing a little, until its gone, then an extra ~2* for safety.

If it makes you feel better, I make more power at 22-24 degrees of timing at WOT, than 27-28 (Dyno Tested).

Depending on your Heads, Cam, CR, etc. I was a doubter for a long time than less timing could produce more power.

I have probably made more power gains just keeping AFR from 12.7-12.9 at WOt with zero ping, or knock (unless it is 100F+). F.Y.I., the 22-24 degrees was still 2-4 degrees less than my knock threshold.

Something to think about.

..WeathermanShawn..

Thank you guys. I sure appreciate the help.. I will take the tune that Aloicious provided for me and work from there. EFI Live is great but I can see it can dangerous to stubborn people, like me. I honestly wish that there was a dyno closer to me than 250 miles. Tough to justify that these days.

Two final questions that would really help me out:
1. In OLMAF, I am struggling some to make small adjustments to AFR the WOT area. I am at ~ 13:1 now and want to get to 12.8. B3647? B3618? Or MAF calibration?
2. Other than the ability to pull timing through the tune for N2O, is running a COS worth it in my case?

No more posts from me until I post up a winner.

[Aloicious]

Thank you guys. I sure appreciate the help.. I will take the tune that Aloicious provided for me and work from there. EFI Live is great but I can see it can dangerous to stubborn people, like me. I honestly wish that there was a dyno closer to me than 250 miles. Tough to justify that these days.

Two final questions that would really help me out:
1. In OLMAF, I am struggling some to make small adjustments to AFR the WOT area. I am at ~ 13:1 now and want to get to 12.8. B3647? B3618? Or MAF calibration?
2. Other than the ability to pull timing through the tune for N2O, is running a COS worth it in my case?

No more posts from me until I post up a winner.

Im not at my tuning computer right now so I cant look up those tables, but for WOT, look at your PE mode commanded fuel. that should help out. I use COS3 and love it, mainly for the RPM vs MAP commanded fueling. I love that table. plus now that I'm going boosted soon the COS will come in even more usefull. (BTW I run OLMAF too, and its my daily driver.)

I wish I could dyno too, its a little expenisve for me, I would probably end up using a ton of time on it, I do have a hookup for a good dyno shop about ~60 miles from me, perhaps when I get a roadrunner.

BTW where in NV are you?

[joecar]

To set your AFR look in both B3647 and B3618.

[tatasta]

Im not at my tuning computer right now so I cant look up those tables, but for WOT, look at your PE mode commanded fuel. that should help out. I use COS3 and love it, mainly for the RPM vs MAP commanded fueling. I love that table. plus now that I'm going boosted soon the COS will come in even more usefull. (BTW I run OLMAF too, and its my daily driver.)

I wish I could dyno too, its a little expenisve for me, I would probably end up using a ton of time on it, I do have a hookup for a good dyno shop about ~60 miles from me, perhaps when I get a roadrunner.

BTW where in NV are you?

I live just outside of Elko, NV. About 230 miles from Salt Lake if you are not familiar with the town. Do you ever get over to Nevada?

Thanks

[Aloicious]

I live just outside of Elko, NV. About 230 miles from Salt Lake if you are not familiar with the town. Do you ever get over to Nevada?

Thanks

yeah I grew up in sacramento and we'd drive out to Idaho every summer to visit relatives, I've gone through Elko TONS of times so I'm fairly familiar with the whole carlin/elko/wells/jackpot/wendover areas, we'd always stop for gas at that big flying J on the edge of town by the freeway.. right now I'm just south of SLC, I don't get out to NV much these days, I'm mostly up in Idaho if I go somewhere. actually the Dyno that I have a connection with is up just outside of Logan at Moonlight Diesel.

[tatasta]

I need to get to a dyno and never really knew where to start looking. Logan is not too bad from here. Pretty much SLC, Boise or Reno to find a shop with a dyno. All pretty much equidistant to me. If I get set up to do a dyno tune, could I PM you to get some info?

Thanks for the help. I'm looking forward to loading that tune on Friday. I'll get some logs posted up Friday or Saturday.

[Aloicious]

I need to get to a dyno and never really knew where to start looking. Logan is not too bad from here. Pretty much SLC, Boise or Reno to find a shop with a dyno. All pretty much equidistant to me. If I get set up to do a dyno tune, could I PM you to get some info?

Thanks for the help. I'm looking forward to loading that tune on Friday. I'll get some logs posted up Friday or Saturday.

yeah, shoot me a PM if you'd like, I'm no dyno vet, but I'll try to help if I can. let us know about that tune once you get a chance to work on it.

[tatasta]

Will do.

[tatasta]

Hey,

Well, I loaded up the tune that Aloicious put together for me and the car ran very well on it. The main purpose of the tune was to help me find the cause of my KR. I would seldom get KR when going WOT off the line or standing on it. Normally, I get it when rolling on the throttle and causing a downshift, but not at WOT. Before this tune I could never get rid of it, regardless of how much I dropped the timing in the problem area.

So, out of the kindness of his heart, Aloicious put a tune together to help me out. The tune ran very well but the KR still happens in the same areas. More and more, I am thinking that it is a false knock. It always occurs at the 3>2 shift. I know my relocated torque arm slaps hard going into a load.

I attached some images of KR, the first log of the tune and the tune itself.

Comments welcome.

Thanks

[joecar]

What was the change in the tune...?