View Poll Results: V5 Spark and Fuel Maps:

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  • They should they be added to V6

    2 66.67%
  • Doesn't matter

    1 33.33%
  • Never used them, don't bother

    0 0%
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Thread: V5 spark and fuel maps into V6?

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member emarkay's Avatar
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    Default V5 spark and fuel maps into V6?

    Neat to look at, BUT, I'm rather curious, as I never found them useful.

    As a graphic, or a research tool, what do they offer that isn't available elsewhere?

    If there is enough interest, there is always the possibility that this feature can be elevated in priority.
    Early EFILive V5 user - Upgraded from AutoTap for DOS!
    2000 Chevrolet Camaro Z28, A4 - For occasional day trips...
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    1989 Honda VTR250 - For me and me only...

  2. #2
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    Ok, I'll try to explain what I like about the maps. I know I could export the data to Excel and plot any parameters vs others. But I found it convenient to be able to "visualize" the spark map for TP vs RPM, MAF vs RPM, or BLMcell# vs RPM. I guess it was easier to look at where the PCM pulls timing over a log file without having to scroll the whole length of the charts. The min, max, average and counts were nice. The data summary page is useful, but doesn't capture as much as the maps did. I don't have Edit yet, so I don't know which plots are most pertinent...

    Also, it would be nice to be able to change the z-axis variable too, instead of being limited to only spark and AFR.

    Just my $.02

    Thanks for all the hard work guys!

  3. #3
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    I like to have the maps, but make them generic
    (you choose the x, y, z, coords (e.g. MAP, RPM, GEAR)).

  4. #4
    EFILive Developer Site Admin Blacky's Avatar
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    That's what the new maps in V6 can do.

  5. #5
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    Default 3D is a Good Thing.

    I want to vote yes, but the Poll Functionality is not operating properly.

    I think a lot in three dimensions. Spatial relationships are important; especially in visualizing what is going on or what you are trying to accomplish. Think of a relief map. Why are new designs rendered in wire frame or modeled as solids? Why do sculptors or car designers model something to a smaller scale or mock it up full size?

    Consider this progression:

    A table with numeric data in each cell conveys information but it requires quantitative analysis on the part of the viewer. Imagine loosing Dash A [F9] and Dash B [F10] in EFILive and only having the Data Tab [F8].

    Now with 3D graphing capabilities (especially if one is able to roll an axis); a Spark, Fuel, or VE a topographical depiction that also shows two other variables like RPM and MAP can be shown. Now; at a glance . . . without doing abstract quantative analysis in your head, one can simply see the lay of the land.

    Let's consider a fuel table. Is the ridge contour too steep causing power loss because it's going pig rich? Did the valley develop a fault line that's tripping KR when switching from one cell to another causing lean misfire?

    Add color coding and now you really have something. Not only for data logging but for editing and tuning purposes. The tables and graphical depictions in logging/reading/editing need to run parallel in appearance and philosophy.

    Again, 3D is a good thing. Now you have a graphical qualitative analysis tool to aid your own capabilities. Diagnosis and tuning become more intuitive and less abstract.

    Steve

  6. #6
    EFILive Developer Site Admin Blacky's Avatar
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    Have you seen the EFILive Tuner Screen Shots here?
    http://www.efilive.com/news_20040423.html

    That is what is being fitted back into the scanner for logging maps.
    Full 3D surface relief map - animated, mouse controlled, 3D rotation, pan and zoom and blended color coding.

    Any size, any axis pids, any data pids.

    Paul

  7. #7
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    Yes! I think that they are excellent. I've probably looked at them five times or more since they were first posted a couple of weeks ago. Some of my comments are based on my mental image of those 3D graphical depictions. I'm trying to reinforce their value to anyone who is undecided.

    MRK said that he didn't see much additional value in the 3D graphs. That he didn't see them as useful.

    I'm just cheering on the value of the graphs. Pour it on! My only critique of the 3D graphs is that the X and Y axis values need to be rotated about 30 degrees for improved readability.

    Regards,
    Steve

  8. #8
    EFILive Developer Site Admin Blacky's Avatar
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    I think emarkay was refering to the text maps in V5 - he doesn't find those useful. I know he likes the 3D surface maps.

    Since those screen shots were taken - the number of labels per axis has been reduced so there is no overlap 95% of the time.

    Paul

  9. #9
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    I think that I missed MRK's point the first time round. Oh well, there's a first time for everything! I knew that the day would come when I would make a mistake. :roll:

    I bought version 5 right when version 6 was being introduced and I jumped on the version 6 bandwagon immediately. I'll reload version 5 on my desktop and take a look and then render another opinion.

    Sorry for the goof! Although it is actually a relief. I knew the day would come and I have it behind me now.

    Steve.

  10. #10
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    I've loaded the current release of Version 5 both in my desktop and my laptop and entered the keys. Here are my current thoughts:

    Version 6 is an excellent enhancement of version 5 but 5 wasn't shabby at all! It's still a very useful tool.

    The tuner screen shot of the Mean Best Timing Advance Table above the 3D graphic of the same table looks a lot like an enhancement of the Current Spark Advance Table [F10] screen in Version 5. Is this what MRK is proposing to eliminate or am I still mixed up?

    I like everything that I see in the proposed Mean Best Timing screen. I wouldn't eliminate anything except for the bunched-up graduation labels on the X and Y Axes which you've already corrected. I think that the Description could be fleshed out with a little more content/context as to how the parameter is used.

    Have I mentioned in the last three days how great FlashScan/with Logging/Reading/Editing will be. Awesome is an overused word, but it is totally appropriate with the new hardware/software package!

    Steve

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