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Thread: 7.4L- 0411ecm - WAY! TOO RICH AT CRANKING

  1. #1
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    Default 7.4L- 0411ecm - WAY! TOO RICH AT CRANKING

    To give a little background on my setup, it is a 2000 model 454 with a 0411 ecm put in a 97k1500 truck with a custom wiring harness ect. The ve table was corrected with auto-ve with efilive and the spark table is so so... but don't have any spk retard.... the injector tables have been corrected, cylinder volume as well,and also the maf is set to fail and "non emissions" hoping to avoid the MAF from being "not" calibrated perfectly. I used a spread sheet to get my cranking ve table in line but the table B3604 has been played with by me A LOT as well as other parameters like throttle cracker,

    The problem I have is that it will not start (is too rich)without pushing the throttle all the way to the floor while cranking to clear the flood....but once it is running it runs just fine. I have played with every crank/start parameter I could find but have not gotten anywhere. Any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated to help with pointing me in the right direction of how to correct this issue.
    Thanks,
    Robby

    ps my tune is attached
    Last edited by stroker97k1500; October 6th, 2009 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Lifetime Member hquick's Avatar
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    Is there a base, stock tume we can look at Robby?
    Howard

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    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.


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    Custom Whipple SC, Mercruiser Marine intake, 0411 PCM, 4L80E w/shift kit

  3. #3
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Also, get these fixed (back into range):

    {A0001} Forced Octane Scaler Percentage, was out of range when loaded.
    {A0002} Octane Scaler Limiter, was out of range when loaded.

  4. #4
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    In tunetool go Edit->Properties->Display and check that fueling units are AFR or EQ and not Lambda.

    B3647: the lean block (65kPa-100kPa, 4800rpm-5600rpm) is very bad... especially since your B3618 is all stoich.

    B5001: is wrong, and it seems you're not failing the MAF, see C6001 below.
    C2903: set this to 1.
    C6001: no, do not set P0101-P0103 to non-emissions; to fail the MAF the PCM must see one of these 3 DTC's; set those to 1-trip.
    The PCM has to see one of P0101, P0102, P0103 in order to fail the MAF.

    B5913, B5914: these don't look right...?


    Additional comments:
    D0960-D0962: set these to 100% all across (otherwise they will interfere with the PT up/down shift tables).


  5. #5
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Your file indicates that the MAF is not being failed (C6001: P0101-P0103 set to non-emissions)...
    the PCM is still using the MAF table which has excessively high airflow values so the PCM is flooding the engine.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hquick View Post
    Is there a base, stock tume we can look at Robby?
    Howard,
    Here are the 2 tunes I used,(1 from the 454 vortech black box)(one is he base 350 van tune for the 0411) to make one for the 454 using the 0411. I took the injector flow rate straight from the "454 vortech" black box tune and the maf table was different but I interpolated the values since the scale was a bit different b/w the 2 and I have had the maf unplugged all together.

    Thank You Joecar for the comments and suggestions. yes I checked again, it was set as afr and not lambada or eq ratio. I went back and made those adjustments you suggested during lunch,except the spark tables and the forced octane part ... I will work on that one tonight, I was thinking it was disabled in the tune but I will look again. It still did the same thing when trying to start up as I left to go home from work.

    BTW I have leaned out all the tables for startup fuel modifiers that I could find but none have made any headway really. I also had this same startup issue before copying the "tune" to the cos3 format. if this helps any?
    Thanks,
    Robby
    to be continued
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7
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    Default Update

    I changed around A LOT of calibrations on the crank/start from an 8.1L engine and modified the high/low spark tables, copied the maf table from the 8.1L just for the hell of it (AND I saw what you meant about the obscene #'s on the maf table MAN I forget to put the decimal point in the correct place evidently... oops!) ...but not much luck with all that.... BUT THEN!!!!! I added more timing to the p/n idle areas and also the in gear base timing areas as well...... THEN the airflow friction and correction table I added maybe 30% ? or so to those and leaned out some more fueling areas at cranking added 2% to the iac steps table and it fired up for its first time all by itself with no help of the throttle pedal!!! I was excited!!!!
    The real test will be more trials tomorrow but SOME progress was made...

    BTW has anyone ever noticed that when the transition from OL to CL the motor idles more roughly?
    Thanks again!
    Robby
    ps... here's the tune that made it start.... still in progress though
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by stroker97k1500; October 9th, 2009 at 04:39 PM. Reason: update... after sitting a while it wont start right up only if immediately shut off then re-started

  8. #8
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroker97k1500 View Post
    BTW has anyone ever noticed that when the transition from OL to CL the motor idles more roughly?
    AFR is probably a little lean after CL first starts.
    After reseting LTFTs AFR can get a little lean until LTFTs are learned.
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  9. #9
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    If your PE is set to EQ 1.00, then you have to make the last few columns of B3647 richer (sufficiently rich to keep the motor safe).

  10. #10
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    Thanks man for your suggestions and the other comments as well .. I did make them a bit richer on the ve table. I have an update unfortunately... it restarts just fine within 2 minutes of shutting off the engine and then restarting it..... if you come back to it later more minutes or hours/days later it floods out the engine while cranking still until it spins over 10-20 revolutions from hat I can tell.
    I will do some more reading on here to see if I can find more answers.
    suggestions still welcome.
    Thanks,
    Robby

    current tune below

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