it this nuts... or is it me?

[Alexo1us]

I have been working on this 97 kumina 3.1. looks way off to me
My spark advance is all ways at -8 to -35.
LTFT -10
The LTFT is not so much a bother just now, this timing number bothers me more.
I do keep getting a egr positon sensor error I will do a relearn process for the egr then clean if needed.

Any ideas as to what could cause the timing to do this. What range should it be in?
THANX

[joecar]

Some ideas:
- crank sensor(s) may be bad (there are 2 crank sensors going to ignition module, and also possibly 1 crank sensor going to PCM);
- ignition module may be bad;
- wiring/connectors of above may be bad.

There may be other causes, but check the above.

Do you get spark from all 3 coils...?
With a scantool, does RPM make sense...?
Are you referring to spark advance as shown by scantool...?
What scantool are you using...?
What is spark advance value if you rev to ~2500 rpm in neutral...?
Do MAP, MAF, ECT, IAT read ok on scantool...?
Do O2 sensors show switching on scantool...?
When did this start happening...?

[Alexo1us]

Thanx
I'm new to this stuff so forgive my dumb questions.
I did look at my other programs the timing shows the same values around -20 to -38 in all three EFILive,AutoTap and PCMScan.
I got hooked up to another V6 a 3.8 in a grand prix it has the same timing values.

Since the old days I set base timing to 10-12 BTDC with advance I would see up to 30 to 40 BTDC To see values in the neg numbers (ATDC) is very confusing.

I could be reading it wrong since both V6 are showing the same.
Could the PCM running this timing as a normal value? Something to do with emmisions maybe.
But both cars seem to run fine smooth and no missing lots of power. other then the EGR code on mine. The mil is not on just get the p1406 code
Very confused>>>>>>

I have included a copy of my last log for some input.

[Alexo1us]

just a quicky
I have been doing some reading.

first I'm beging to wonder if the fact that these motors don't have a distributor is why I'm seeing the - in front of the spark advance or could it be actually running retarded because of emmisions.

I did go to a car lot yesterday hooked up to a 99 GP with a 3.1 it runs aroud the same numbers. -10 to about -35 in spark advance or(retarded)

maybe this question is better.
what do the - or + (or nothing in front the number) actually mean.

Thanx

[joecar]

It might be the interpretation of the binary bits... in this case the negative might be meaningless... usually negative means retarded... can you check with another scanner, say a borrowed one from AutoZone.

[joecar]

Is this 3.1L V6 similar to the 2.8L/3.1L/3.4L V6 family...?

My wife has the 3.4L V6, I'll have a look at that when I get a chance.

[Alexo1us]

Thanx JoeCar
I'm suspecting that I should just treat as an error as it reads same in AutoTap and PCMScan.
Thanx also for checking th 3.4 it will be interesting to see if yurs is also reading the neg like the last three I checked.
I can say that I know for bringing down the NO numbers they are known to retard the timing just don't think it would be going that far.

This is alot to learn....
Alex

[Alexo1us]

OK so I got it running good now.
only 2 questions
I thought I could change the vin but it is greyed out when I try. Should this work?
On spark advance I did see a base spark pid that is listed for e38 (no Distributor motor)
Should I use this pid?
Thanx