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Thread: Tuning Notes by WeathermanShawn

  1. #1
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    Default Tuning Notes by WeathermanShawn

    Here is a description of the CALC.VE method of Tuning.

    I originally followed the current method of disabling the MAF and mapping my VE Table using the wideband and AFR BEN's as described in the Tutorials. I then followed the protocol of then 'calibrating' the MAF. I found the procedure of mapping the VE Table with disabling the MAF a little tedious, but in the end it was successful. However, once I enabled the MAF..I ran into trouble. It was a long and tedious procedure to match the SD Airflow. And went I went back to closed-loop..it was a lot of work to then get LTFT's to match up.

    For those who run MAF and closed-loop, I have the following method to propose. First MAP MAF Frequency against your LTFT's. Apply the same filters that are normally suggested when you construct a VE Table. Then simply cut and paste the correction to the MAF Calibration Table found in your Tune. I then used the following EFILive Pid: CALC.VE.

    Volumetric Efficiency {CALC.VE}:
    % = {SAE.MAF.gps}*({SAE.IAT.C}+273.15)/((displacement()*61.024)*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})* 212544

    It is basically utilizing the MAF Airflow along with your RPM's and MAP. It also utilizes the IAT, and in the end utilizing a RPM vs MAP..you can easily construct a VE Table..just from the MAF output.

    You must utilize a wideband! This is to verify that your narrow-band O2's are switching properly and maintaining stoich. Also, you must be commanding the proper AFR at WOT. It actually matches up fairly well to the original VE Table (SD method).

    Feel free to add any comments, constructive criticism, or comments.
    Last edited by WeathermanShawn; February 9th, 2010 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Length..
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


  2. #2
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
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    100% MAF first w/LTFTs then VE w/CALC.VE, or is VE changed the same time as MAF?
    How are LTFTs applied, do you have a calc_pid?
    Did you change the O2 switch points before using LTFTs?

    Its fun to try to hit those high MAP areas @ mile high isn't it.
    At most I am able to hit 90kPa but only when I go down hill.
    Last edited by mr.prick; January 20th, 2010 at 11:19 AM.
    512k RoadRunner Firmware 12.14R
    FlashScan V2 Bootblock V2.07.04 Firmware V2.07.22 EFILive V7.5.7 (Build 191) V8.2.1 (Build 181)
    LC-1 WBO2

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    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Shawn, I believe that you must also calculate the IAT/ECT blending factor into your pid to get it closer. I will add something to try as soon as it quietens down here.
    The Tremor at AIR

  4. #4
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Something like this.
    CALC.BLEND ="lookup({SAE.MAF}, 0.00,0.799805, 10.00,0.419922, 20.00,0.282715, 30.00,0.243652, 40.00,0.219727, 50.00,0.202637, 60.00,0.188477, 70.00,0.175781, 80.00,0.164551, 90.00,0.153809, 100.00,0.143555, 110.00,0.134277, 120.00,0.124512, 130.00,0.115234, 140.00,0.106445, 150.00,0.089844)"

    % = {SAE.MAF.gps}*({SAE.IAT.C}+(({SAE.ECT}-{SAE.IAT})*{CALC.BLEND})+273.15)/((displacement()*61.024)*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})* 212544
    The Tremor at AIR

  5. #5
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.prick View Post
    100% MAF first w/LTFTs then VE w/CALC.VE, or is VE changed the same time as MAF?
    How are LTFTs applied, do you have a calc_pid?
    Did you change the O2 switch points before using LTFTs?

    Its fun to try to hit those high MAP areas @ mile high isn't it.
    At most I am able to hit 90kPa but only when I go down hill.
    Yea, I am drastically limited by altitude! I can only hit ~ 82-84 kPa on a good day.I

    I somehow settled on a O2 switch-point of 550 mv. Maybe just the way my car responded. But, it does give me stoich (wideband logged) when I MAP it.
    Last edited by WeathermanShawn; February 9th, 2010 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Redundant
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


  6. #6
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
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    Ok.
    After MAF is done w/LTFT, then VE is molded w/calc_ve via straight paste.
    512k RoadRunner Firmware 12.14R
    FlashScan V2 Bootblock V2.07.04 Firmware V2.07.22 EFILive V7.5.7 (Build 191) V8.2.1 (Build 181)
    LC-1 WBO2

    _________________________________________________

  7. #7
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.prick View Post
    Ok.
    After MAF is done w/LTFT, then VE is molded w/calc_ve via straight paste.
    Perfectly stated! Do you think it has some validity?
    Last edited by WeathermanShawn; February 9th, 2010 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Length
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


  8. #8
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    It certainly has some validity. It would be interesting to compare the resultant AFR's going straight from maf to SD, after the VE table has been calculated in this manner.
    The Tremor at AIR

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    ok, i'm gonna be a science stickler again...
    check your units, what does g*K/(sec*m^3*kPa) simplify to?

    you do know that IAT != MAT and that cylinder airmass from MAF is already done for you in the form of CYLAIR, right? so then to solve for VE, all you need to do is start with CYLAIR=VOL*VE*MAP/(R*MAT), and rearrange to isolate VE so you end up in the form of
    VE=CYLAIR*R*MAT/(VOL*MAP)

    if you want dimensional analysis of it done, it's a bit convoluted, but it checks out clean. it's all in my 'how SD works' from four years ago.

  10. #10
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhardsupra View Post
    ok, i'm gonna be a science stickler again...
    Check your units, what does g*k/(sec*m^3*kpa) simplify to?

    You do know that iat != mat and that cylinder airmass from maf is already done for you in the form of cylair, right? So then to solve for ve, all you need to do is start with cylair=vol*ve*map/(r*mat), and rearrange to isolate ve so you end up in the form of
    ve=cylair*r*mat/(vol*map)

    if you want dimensional analysis of it done, it's a bit convoluted, but it checks out clean. It's all in my 'how sd works' from four years ago.
    o.k.
    Last edited by WeathermanShawn; February 9th, 2010 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Redundant..
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


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