Tuning Notes by WeathermanShawn

[tinindian]

This is awesome. I can't wait to see how this pans out.

[Steve Bryant]

Your complaints are noted. To me, after putting together 'three airmass model' all calibration became self-evident. Apparently you don't see it the same way. Now that I know there's a disconnect between my writing and perceived insight from reading it, I know there's more writing to be done. That's something I can definitely work with.

How about we cut a deal? I will write my stuff up in small, hopefully easily digestible installments. After each piece, YOU will comment, correct, ask for clarifications, expand on this, stop repeating yourself over there sort of collaborative editing. Once you're satisfied, I will move on to another section, until we're all satisfied.

Deal?

Marcin,
I think that this would be much appreciated by a number of people in the tuning community. Few folks have analized and studied the mathematical models and the interaction/interdependent nature of this stuff like you have. I'll be glad to give you feedback, and help in any way that I can.

Steve

[5.7ute]

Steve, Have you read this from Marcins site? http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com/200...ss-models.html
It is I believe the most pertinant to this discussion, & simplifies a lot of what he has stated earlier.

[WeathermanShawn]

TEMP= IAT+(ECT-IAT)*BIAS..where BIAS is a lookup table referenced against airflow..

Thats the one that makes life difficult!

[redhardsupra]

TEMP= IAT+(ECT-IAT)*BIAS..where BIAS is a lookup table referenced against airflow..

Thats the one that makes life difficult!

oh that's only the beginning of it. in and of itself, it's not that much of a pain in the...equation. however, you combine it with a 3d GMVE table to be solved at the same time, and you got a real problem on your hands. And if you're still bored, apply the lag filter to the temp estimator. That I haven't been able to solve for 2+yrs now :(

[5.7ute]

oh that's only the beginning of it. in and of itself, it's not that much of a pain in the...equation. however, you combine it with a 3d GMVE table to be solved at the same time, and you got a real problem on your hands. And if you're still bored, apply the lag filter to the temp estimator. That I haven't been able to solve for 2+yrs now :(

Dont forget slow reacting sensors, sensor heatsoak, airflow past the sensor etc etc.
Now, where did I put those O2 sensors again.

[redhardsupra]

Oh, I was just talking about the stuff I can control, then on top of it, you're absolutely right, you got all the 'natural' noise, limitations, and imprecisions. This is why I'm so anal about getting the stuff we can control correctly, because we already got plenty of noise to deal with.

[WeathermanShawn]

Its tough.

Might be interesting to be able to PID the actual Temp Bias Factor(s). I am not sure the Dynamic Air Temperature (PID) is applying the bias factors in its current form.

Now I can understand why temperatures have been problematic.

[5.7ute]

Its tough.

Might be interesting to be able to PID the actual Temp Bias Factor(s). I am not sure the Dynamic Air Temperature (PID) is applying the bias factors in its current form.

Now I can understand why temperatures have been problematic.

That lookup pid in the other thread will take care of the temp bias factor as long as the values match your tune. The lag filter will be much more complex to implement.

[redhardsupra]

Its tough.

Might be interesting to be able to PID the actual Temp Bias Factor(s). I am not sure the Dynamic Air Temperature (PID) is applying the bias factors in its current form.

Now I can understand why temperatures have been problematic.

you are right about the MAT DMA PID. Linear and I were bouncing off ideas the other night, and we realized that it would be much easier to figure out how they work if we could look at them separately as a lookup. feel free to generate more pressure on Ross/Paul here:
http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=11


Shawn, dont take it the wrong way, but I don't think you can understand the uglyness of temp estimators, until you actually attempt to solve for all their components simultaneously. Holy crap it's convoluted. I wouldn't wish it on the worst of enemies. I spent few hundred dollars on math books before I was able to put a dent in it. I'm not gonna even mention the manhours.