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Thread: I can't get pulse width low enough on siemens/mototron 60lb injectors

  1. #21
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Just for the record. Was your wideband in the same bank as cylinder 7?
    The Tremor at AIR

  2. #22
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    I'm going to bed but I can test your cax file tomorrow.

    The wideband is in 3 feet after the turbo in the downpipe. It is a single turbo so both banks join and go to turbo and then downpipe.

    I am open loop speed density. I was expecting the unburnt fuel to have made the wideband show rich, therefore I would've countered by making the ve table lean out everything. So after the fix I was expecting the wideband to show lean but in reality everything looks to be around 5-15% richer. Not sure why.

    Did the computer, knowing about the cyl 7 ignition issue, not fire the injector?? The cyl 7 spark plug looked fairly normal , insulator was just slightly tanner then the other spark plugs, also had some small black areas in it.
    9.8@150 . LQ4 Turbonetics Billet 7575@18psi, 6 speed, non-intercooled with meth. Speed Density, open loop, no PE.

  3. #23
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryans1000 View Post
    ...

    I was expecting the unburnt fuel to have made the wideband show rich, therefore I would've countered by making the ve table lean out everything. So after the fix I was expecting the wideband to show lean but in reality everything looks to be around 5-15% richer. Not sure why.
    No, it will show lean because unburnt fuel means there is excess oxygen present... this would have caused you to make the VE table richer.

  4. #24
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    No, it will show lean because unburnt fuel means there is excess oxygen present... this would have caused you to make the VE table richer.
    X2
    Joe, did you have a look at my other post in relation to the maths?
    I believe that this is why Marcin is dying for me to finish the IBPW composition I am working on, since once you know what part is the fuelling contribution is, you no longer have to rely on BEN factors.
    Sorry to go off topic ryans1000. Just in case you have an issue with the cax file implementation, I have attached your tune file with the modification already made to the table. I also fixed the out of range values & the VE table in the idle areas is also increased to what I calculated. Keep an eye on your wideband.
    Cheers Mick
    Attached Files Attached Files
    The Tremor at AIR

  5. #25
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.7ute View Post
    I just done some quick maths. (well maybe quick for others)
    IBPW = Airmass/AFR/IFR*1000 + offsets + spa. (I know Marcin, I havent fully proved it yet)
    So we should be able to calculate your actual cylinder airmass at idle with the equation.
    Cylinder airmass =(IBPW-offsets-spa)*IFR*Wideband AFR
    Using your log we have
    (1.770046-0.4711-0.030395)/1000*9.242188*12.3 = 0.144207498 g/cyl. <-- I moved the ) to the right place
    If others would like to check my equation that would be great. To me it shows you underestimating airmass at idle by a fair wack. (0.0312 g/cyl in your tune) So once the min pulsewidth issue is sorted you will be way lean.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5.7ute View Post
    X2
    Joe, did you have a look at my other post in relation to the maths?
    ...
    Mick,

    I looked at it and it is correct...

    the parenthesis ) was in the wrong place, but the result 0.144207498 g/cyl is correct...

  6. #26
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    I did a little bit of messing with it on my lunch break. Seems to be working. it had a really lean idle at first. i eventually moved the ve table to around 78 in the idle cells and it started idling around 15.3 to 1 . almost perfect but just a hint of a miss hear and there. ibpw were mainly in the 1.6's, hitting in the 1.5's a bit. ran out of time. I'll go back out this afternoon and take a longer log.
    9.8@150 . LQ4 Turbonetics Billet 7575@18psi, 6 speed, non-intercooled with meth. Speed Density, open loop, no PE.

  7. #27
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    No worries. If you can log all the same pids as before that will be good.
    One thing we will have to try & work out is why that table is active in your tune, and not in others.(that I am aware of anyway)
    The Tremor at AIR

  8. #28
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    5.7ute,

    I won't have time to do another log again today but here is my quick logs from my lunch break. Log 38 is from the untouched tune you gave me and log 43 is the log after I richened up the idle ve cells as shown in the attached tune

    Here is the Log_0038.efi

    Log_0043.efi

    sdAutoVe_0026 cax applied_0004.tun
    9.8@150 . LQ4 Turbonetics Billet 7575@18psi, 6 speed, non-intercooled with meth. Speed Density, open loop, no PE.

  9. #29
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryans1000 View Post
    5.7ute,

    I won't have time to do another log again today but here is my quick logs from my lunch break. Log 38 is from the untouched tune you gave me and log 43 is the log after I richened up the idle ve cells as shown in the attached tune

    Here is the Log_0038.efi

    Log_0043.efi

    sdAutoVe_0026 cax applied_0004.tun
    The pulswidth has certainly lowered, which is a step in the right direction.
    Have you any means of checking the fuel pressure at idle?
    The Tremor at AIR

  10. #30
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    yes i can check the fuel pressure. i wonder if the slight miss i was getting was the injectors not working properly because they couldn't handle the low pulsewidth.
    9.8@150 . LQ4 Turbonetics Billet 7575@18psi, 6 speed, non-intercooled with meth. Speed Density, open loop, no PE.

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