Wideband Controller Poll

[restless@westnet.com.au]

tech edge 2j1

[Soopy]

Tech edge 2j2

[Mr. P.]

If you're willing to spend just a little bit more to get actual pro quality tools, the ECM products are all > * on the list here... You will NOT find a better wideband than ECM on the planet.

I read your recommendation in another post, and it helped me greatly although I did not purchase the ECM AFM1500 (couldn't afford it :().

The ECM AFM1500 is cheaper (relatively speaking) and has serial comms output.

The AFM1500 lists for 1500-bones; if I was an amateur or professional tuner I would definitely buy one.

My 2-cents -

I bought the NGK AFX and *love* it. I was using a PLX and after switching holy cow a night and day difference; I had no idea just how important a properly functioning wideband is to saving your sanity attempting to tune your vehicle. With the NGK the vehicle will now behave like I expect when making tuning changes! With the PLX the truck had lots of little unexplained behaviors (mystery KR, piss-poor economy, minor stumbling & hesitations, etc) and after changing to the NGK and re-doing my VE table wow I am now getting good economy and the tuning changes I am making actually produce results/behavior that makes sense.

When talking about widebands I think the discussion needs to be broken into TWO threads, one for products that use the Bosch sensor, and others that use the NTK sensor. The NTK sensor is FAR more accurate than the Bosch in the rich AFR areas that forced-induction vehicles operate at. In my case with the PLX, it wasn't that the Bosch was "off", it's that the amount of that inaccuracy differed all over the lambda range, at stoich it was off very little but when the PLX was reporting 11.8-AFR the exhaust was actually 12.8 and I believe this has everything to do with the design of the Bosch sensor itself - sure it's a "wideband sensor" but it was just never meant to be accurate at AFRs that rich. My opinion the Bosch sensor (and all the widebands that are built on it) are perfectly fine for naturally-aspirated applications; but when you need to know for damned sure what the AFR is exactly when your are commanding 1.28-EQR then the Bosch just cannot report truly what is happening, and the NTK sensor can.

So when I researched a replacement for the PLX, I considered Greg's suggestions seriously and found that the NGK AFX product uses the NTK sensor and was designed with the help of ECM (makers of the AFM1500). The NGK AFX is affordable ($270), the construction is fantastic, it can be free-air calibrated, the instructions are good, and it also comes with an O2 bung and plug! The only cons are that it is analog output (no serial connection) and the big red display assumes 14.7 stoich so for me running E10 (14.12 stoich) the display is useless. But I highly recommend it, because it produces correct and repeatable results.

Mr. P.

[joecar]

Hi Mr.P,

Yes, lol "relatively speaking"...


Thanks for the impressions on the NGK.

Yes, it's probably a good idea to separate out discussions on the O2 sensor and the controller.

You can still display lambda by dividing the AFR pid by the stoich AFR assumed by the controller.

[Highlander]

how does the ECM system compare with the LM2 system?

[joecar]

how does the ECM system compare with the LM2 system?

Howard at Redline Motorsports is using this, he is happy with it.

[eficalibrator]

how does the ECM system compare with the LM2 system?

It's not even a comparison IMHO. ECM makes laboratory grade professional equipment that is used by GM, Ford, Chrysler, the EPA, Et. Al... The LM2 is aimed at the mass market of people who read magazines and believe what someone with a journalism background and the need to fill advertising space tells them.

[Jester]

I have an old PLX M300, was l9ooking at the Techedge 2J2, anyone used one and would you recommend it?

[slows10]

It's not even a comparison IMHO. ECM makes laboratory grade professional equipment that is used by GM, Ford, Chrysler, the EPA, Et. Al... The LM2 is aimed at the mass market of people who read magazines and believe what someone with a journalism background and the need to fill advertising space tells them.

Unfortunately for me, I believe very little what my 5 month old MTX-L tells me. IMO it and the other innovate widebands are junk. Sorry I spent the money on it. The bosch sensor has a negative history to it. (many,many threads and posts to confirm)as well as my exp with it. And the controller itself is not much better. It would be nice if we could at least upgrade to the better sensor.

[Soopy]

I have an old PLX M300, was l9ooking at the Techedge 2J2, anyone used one and would you recommend it?

Yes and yes.